Outfitters & PH's have you ever been burned?

Wow, this is sad to say and Gerrit let me just say I'm embarrassed as a fellow hunter from the US for all of us.
I hunted with Gerrit last year and just this week my trophies are ready and heading home soon. I had a blast and DID pay my bill in full! HAHAHA. Gerrit is a family owned operation that gives excellent service and I felt the hunt was very fairly priced in the first place- so it makes it even worse when someone walks away from a hunt owing money to a personal operation.
All the best GvJ- my skins are headed home soon, I'll shoot you a picture when I get my basement decorated in Bos En Dal Interiors.
B.

Tootabi Hunting Safaris said:

The best I have ever heard was that how rude I am - counting cash that was handed over to me as payment for the safari in front of the client. Supposedly I should have trusted him and counted the cash after he has departed.

My response was that if you deposit money at the bank they count it, same story at any gas station - so what makes my business otherwise that the rest?

Thanks God I counted it!

Click to expand...

That is how some people will attempt to scam a person. Say for example a client is supposed to pay you 10,000, for a safari that's on the cheaper sider, and the highest US dollar bill is a 100. If someone hands you a large stack of hundreds and says there is 10,000 there just eyeballing it you can't tell if its 10,000 or say 8,000 for example. If it isn't counted you are out 2000 and you have no way of proving it. People will do this on purpose. Or to mask it even further they might give all 20s so that it is a huge stack of money but they might in reality be thousands of dollars short, because again just eyeballing it you have no way of knowing how much there is. 500 20s= 10,000, if somebody gave you 300 or 400 20s instead = 6000 or 8000, without counting how would you know that the amount is off? They'd both still be large piles of money.

Nobody who is clean would have issues with you counting the money. Furthermore its actually a good thing to have somebody double check as mistakes do happen and its possible the amount that was given might be under or even over, it is in both parties best interest to do so. Usually if I am paying someone I will count the money right there in front of them and then ask them to do it.

Electronic Money counters would pay for themselves with one shortage.

bls72bmw said:

Wow, this is sad to say and Gerrit let me just say I'm embarrassed as a fellow hunter from the US for all of us.
I hunted with Gerrit last year and just this week my trophies are ready and heading home soon. I had a blast and DID pay my bill in full! HAHAHA. Gerrit is a family owned operation that gives excellent service and I felt the hunt was very fairly priced in the first place- so it makes it even worse when someone walks away from a hunt owing money to a personal operation.
All the best GvJ- my skins are headed home soon, I'll shoot you a picture when I get my basement decorated in Bos En Dal Interiors.
B.

Click to expand...

Hey Buddy
Thanks for the nice words!! I am looking forward to see how that Zebra rug is going to add to the Basement?? I will pop you a mail soon!!
Regards

Dragan N. said:

. . . . if I am paying someone I will count the money right there in front of them and then ask them to do it.

Click to expand...

That is also my way of doing things.

There is always a few hunters (i am using the word loosely) that travel with out having the means to pay for their hunt. (animal trophy fees and daily fees)

In the 80's I had one such person travel with us on 2 different hunts to Alaska. They were broke when they left the house, did not have the money to buy a soda or meal on the drive up to Alaska or the return trip. (so they talk a good story, however they come up short)

A few years back while in a hunting camp a PH was telling the story of a Hunter in camp who had pre-paid their daily fees, however no trophy fees were paid in advance. However the client did not have the money to take care of any trophy fees if he was successful, what the PH did was called home base and had a charter come and pick up the client to return the hunter to the nearest town and drop him off. The PH was was not aware of what happen to the individual after he left camp. However the charter company demanded payment for the flight and the hunter was able to use his credit card to make that payment or would have went to jail.

A different year; Another PH in another camp was have a great safari with an American client and the client shot more Trophy animals than expected. (heck i did that last year) When the time to settle the bill came at the end of the safari, the client was short the money to pay for the Sable he had taken. (the Sable was not on the hunter initial trophy list) The client returned to the states with the understanding that the trophy fees for the sable needed to be addressed when he returned home. You guessed it the client never came through and all the trophy's taken were held.

I like other here have indicated try to have a majority of the Trophy fees paid prior to going or held by the booking agent. I have also gone over my spending limit while on Safari, and what i anticipated my safari expenses to be. The two time that this has taken place, i have paid the balance with a few weeks after returning home. Both times, i could have paid the final Safari charges in the field, however, i would not have had any money left for tips for the PH and crew. Both times, we decided (group discussion) the tips for the staff and PH were the 1st order and that i could make the final payment when i returned home.

I may be different than some but I've never gone on any hunt where I was not in possession of the means to fully pay. I also never leave for any hunt without extra funds "just in case".

I'm fanatical about planning ahead, saving money and paying what I owe at the time it's owed. I couldn't live my life any other way. To each his own, but if I can't afford something I just don't do it it. No problem.

I do not mean this as a criticism of anyone else or the way they choose to do things. Like I said, to each his own.

I too find this all very strange. This is about using the classic "Reagan Doctrine" as it's known. "Trust, but verify". (in this case, seeing the money is believing)

The fact that the bill is settled in entirety at the end would lead to people not having enough dough quite frequently I would imagine. You'd think that you'd settle the baseline bill at pickup and you'd adjust at the end. (credits for unharvested species, debits for incidentals and gratuities)

You'd think that there would also be a contract in place and a credit card on file. Usually the merchant loses but still the first recourse is that the outfitter would zing the credit card for a discrepancy in the bill and see if the customer has the gall to dispute the charge. (which they usually won't if the sign the final bill at camp with the "balance due" still written.

These guys seem to be a little behind on using the "TAP" on the CC machine.

rookhawk said:

I too find this all very strange. This is about using the classic "Reagan Doctrine" as it's known. "Trust, but verify". (in this case, seeing the money is believing)

The fact that the bill is settled in entirety at the end would lead to people not having enough dough quite frequently I would imagine. You'd think that you'd settle the baseline bill at pickup and you'd adjust at the end. (credits for unharvested species, debits for incidentals and gratuities)

You'd think that there would also be a contract in place and a credit card on file. Usually the merchant loses but still the first recourse is that the outfitter would zing the credit card for a discrepancy in the bill and see if the customer has the gall to dispute the charge. (which they usually won't if the sign the final bill at camp with the "balance due" still written.

Click to expand...

If the guy never authorized that country on the credit card there will be absolutely nothing to dispute.

1st world solutions in a 3rd world country... Still humming along like the day it was delivered.

rookhawk there will be a contract in place, but as most people dont take credit cards that is not an option. there has always been a lot of trust on both sides which has worked well most of the time.

BRICKBURN said:

These guys seem to be a little behind on using the "TAP" on the CC machine.


View attachment 39090

Click to expand...

wayne i am sure i can see a visa sign right at the far end on the right of the left.......

BRICKBURN said:

These guys seem to be a little behind on using the "TAP" on the CC machine. View attachment 39090

Click to expand...

Where did you spot that treasure trove.

Looks like they have some masks, that i would consider purchasing.

do most outfitters have a card machine?? I only ask as i dont fancy carrying around too much cash!

norfolk shooter said:

do most outfitters have a card machine?? I only ask as i dont fancy carrying around too much cash!

Click to expand...

I found that most do not.

James.Grage said:

Where did you spot that treasure trove.

Looks like they have some masks, that i would consider purchasing.

Click to expand...

Not to go to far sideways on the thread. CASH ON THE BARREL HEAD ONLY.

Craft Market on the north end of Okahandja in Namibia.
The one carver in this market is a real artist.

norfolk shooter said:

do most outfitters have a card machine?? I only ask as i dont fancy carrying around too much cash!

Click to expand...

If the hunt is quoted in USD or Euro's than that is the preferred currency.

Cash is preferable, or you may spend a hunting day at the bank to use your Credit card or make a cash transfer. Provided you are hunting in a country that the US State Department allow you to use your Credit card and/or allows money transfers to.

I always try to carry the preferred money for the country that i am hunting in for side line shopping and tips for the staff at the end of the safari.

Some PH like USD, however they do have an expense to convert the USD in the country that they live.

An Example: If hunting in South Africa the normal preferred currency is Rands. Now if part of your crew or staff is from Zimbabwe they would like USD over Rands.

Another Example is Namibia: The normal is the Namibian Dollar, however they also take South Africa Rands usually at par.

Well Im a Brit so thats the £ out of the question. Oh well US$ it is than

More and more outfitters in SA are getting set up to take credit cards and paypal, I plan to use a card possibly this year for that extra animal that tempts me. I paid a deposit for a hunt in Namibia with visa. I think Americans will spend more if they have the credit card option for trophies.

norfolk shooter said:

Well Im a Brit so thats the £ out of the question. Oh well US$ it is than

Click to expand...

We South Africans take any currency...
I try and quote the client in the currency they preffer, just to make it easier for them!! Normally USD, Euro or pound!!
O and i am not set up for credit cards yet, do use paypal, and futher we use cash!!
I am waiting for my card machine though see if i can squeeze a few extra pennies from Jeff!!!!

Just kiddin