AGENT: WARNING About Northwoods Adventures

Eugene PJ Safaris said:

When something is to good to be true then it normally is. We as Outfitters in South Africa do see these adds and that puts lots of concern in our minds. Many Outfitters spend lots of money to fly to the States and spend 4 - 6 weeks doing show after show, meeting face to face with the potential clients, putting them to ease that what we offer is Legit. Then one Outfitter comes along and spoils the whole industry with crap like that.

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Let me ask you a question--a question I've put to other Outfitters and Professional Hunters. As a preamble: I hunt a lot, all over the world and done it for many years and I've never--and I mean NEVER--bought a hunt at any kind of convention. Now, I'll check things out on the internet but prior to that convenience, I wrote a lot of letters and made a lot of phone calls. Also, I am under no misapprehension that I'm establishing any kind of special, life-long relationship with my PH. It's a business, pure and simple and, in a sense, I'm buying a bottle of milk.

So why is it necessary to spend money and time at those 4-6 weeks at conventions? Don't other hunters simply 'hunt' you down trying to obtain good game at a decent price? Or….is back slapping and glad-handing an essential part of business? If so, why?

I am not without personal experience. I did some paid hunting for whitetails, hogs, javelinas, turkeys, birds and varmints down here on my ranch in South Texas. I couldn't keep hunters off the phone with me. I never went to a convention and I wasn't offering special hunts like for the golden speckled greater aardvark--just regular stuff. Hunters came from all over the world--Argentina, England, Mexico, Puerto Rico, the U.S., England, Sweden and I never advertised anywhere, just word of mouth.

I have never been to a big convention like SCI or Dallas either but I would like too if the time and funds permitted me. I would enjoy enjoy seeing the different outfits from around the world and looking at the taxidermy and secretly wishing I could afford one of everything. I further think it's good for the sport. Outfitters are business men seeking business. I know a lot of outfits need the convention circuit and some that don't I m sure still go for the "business vacation" and seeing old friends and clients.

I hear what you say.. Word of mouth is your best advertisement ..
Like I said for many hunters they would like to meet with the Outfitter / PH face to face, especially now that there is so many scams and crooks in this industry.

Lets not get of the original topic where a client booked a "cheap" hunt with an Outfitter and now that Outfitter can not deliver.

We are all about personal attention and giving the client the best Safari for his $$. On No convention do Hunters get hunts for next to nothing prices. Hunts have a value and that is what they are sold for, market related prices....

Ask yourself, will you stay in a $10 per night hotel?? If so expect $10 service with cockroches with it..

Thanks for your input...

spoonieduck said:

Let me ask you a question--a question I've put to other Outfitters and Professional Hunters. As a preamble: I hunt a lot, all over the world and done it for many years and I've never--and I mean NEVER--bought a hunt at any kind of convention. Now, I'll check things out on the internet but prior to that convenience, I wrote a lot of letters and made a lot of phone calls. Also, I am under no misapprehension that I'm establishing any kind of special, life-long relationship with my PH. It's a business, pure and simple and, in a sense, I'm buying a bottle of milk.

So why is it necessary to spend money and time at those 4-6 weeks at conventions? Don't other hunters simply 'hunt' you down trying to obtain good game at a decent price? Or….is back slapping and glad-handing an essential part of business? If so, why?

I am not without personal experience. I did some paid hunting for whitetails, hogs, javelinas, turkeys, birds and varmints down here on my ranch in South Texas. I couldn't keep hunters off the phone with me. I never went to a convention and I wasn't offering special hunts like for the golden speckled greater aardvark--just regular stuff. Hunters came from all over the world--Argentina, England, Mexico, Puerto Rico, the U.S., England, Sweden and I never advertised anywhere, just word of mouth.

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Eugene PJ Safaris said:

I hear what you say.. Word of mouth is your best advertisement ..
Like I said for many hunters they would like to meet with the Outfitter / PH face to face, especially now that there is so many scams and crooks in this industry.

Lets not get of the original topic where a client booked a "cheap" hunt with an Outfitter and now that Outfitter can not deliver.

We are all about personal attention and giving the client the best Safari for his $$. On No convention do Hunters get hunts for next to nothing prices. Hunts have a value and that is what they are sold for, market related prices....

Ask yourself, will you stay in a $10 per night hotel?? If so expect $10 service with cockroches with it..

Thanks for your input...

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You are certainly right when you say hunts have a value. We all understand it's what ever the market will bear. I have been traveling to go hunting for almost 30 years. I've seen the prices soar Hell I remember paying $5500 for my brown bear hunt. Can't barely hunt good whitetail for that now.

johnnyblues said:

You are certainly right when you say hunts have a value. We all understand it's what ever the market will bear. I have been traveling to go hunting for almost 30 years. I've seen the prices soar Hell I remember paying $5500 for my brown bear hunt. Can't barely hunt good whitetail for that now.

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I can believe that prices did change a lot over the past 30 years, money does not carry the value it used to years ago. I see the same in South Africa and in the USA.

The 2008 economy crush did see prices fall back some to try to get hunters to still go on Safaris, also remember that supply and demand plays a big roll in what an animal is worth.

But to come back to our original conversation, I would like to see hunters supporting the Outfitter that take the time and spend the money to Advertise his Company. Also the hunter must get references of hunters who has hunted the company before.. Normally the longer that Outfitter has been in business will give a good idea if he is Legit or not.

I strongly agree we should support good outfitters and strongly feel we need to weed out the bad! I have hunted enough to know a lot of outfitters don't like giving the names of " unsuccessful "hunters for fears they may say something bad. How are we supposed to know if we have never hunted with them? I for one still take the time ( in most cases) to contact references. Then again there are a lot of instances where outfitters are having marital or financial problems that could effect the hunt. Let' face it hunting in itself can be a gamble.

johnnyblues said:

You are certainly right when you say hunts have a value. We all understand it's what ever the market will bear. I have been traveling to go hunting for almost 30 years. I've seen the prices soar Hell I remember paying $5500 for my brown bear hunt. Can't barely hunt good whitetail for that now.

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I hear you loud and clear. Back in, I think, 1987--granted 20 years ago--I paid $8,000.00 for a 15 day hunt for truly enormous elephant in Ethiopia. My friend got one--at that same price--of 124 and 126 lbs on a side [unfortunately, I wasn't so fortunate]. One hunter got one of 150 lbs per side at that price. Check out the prices of bull elephant prices now even in places unlikely to produce more than a 40 pounder. By the way, don't overestimate the accomplishment. Anybody can can do it if he has the dinero. Then again, anybody can buy a Ferrari if he has the money. You place the crosshairs in the right place….exhale…..slowly…….s...l...o...w..l….y………..pomp! The bull collapses like a sack of feed corn. It's a done deal. We've all been there, haven't we?

spoonieduck said:

Let me ask you a question--a question I've put to other Outfitters and Professional Hunters. As a preamble: I hunt a lot, all over the world and done it for many years and I've never--and I mean NEVER--bought a hunt at any kind of convention. Now, I'll check things out on the internet but prior to that convenience, I wrote a lot of letters and made a lot of phone calls. Also, I am under no misapprehension that I'm establishing any kind of special, life-long relationship with my PH. It's a business, pure and simple and, in a sense, I'm buying a bottle of milk.

So why is it necessary to spend money and time at those 4-6 weeks at conventions? Don't other hunters simply 'hunt' you down trying to obtain good game at a decent price? Or….is back slapping and glad-handing an essential part of business? If so, why?

I am not without personal experience. I did some paid hunting for whitetails, hogs, javelinas, turkeys, birds and varmints down here on my ranch in South Texas. I couldn't keep hunters off the phone with me. I never went to a convention and I wasn't offering special hunts like for the golden speckled greater aardvark--just regular stuff. Hunters came from all over the world--Argentina, England, Mexico, Puerto Rico, the U.S., England, Sweden and I never advertised anywhere, just word of mouth.

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I think you are over simplifying a competitive industry, I have been marketing for 15 years in the US (exclusively) my service is top notch, quality of experience incredible, trophy quality extremely good and knowledge on hunts where other guys struggle quite satisfactory when taking success rate into consideration

I can write us all a letter if I do not come to the U.S. for 3 - 4 years I will not do business. One needs to source new blood and keep a brand name in the consumers face, SCI, DSC provides me with this exact platform.

Believe me I have better things to do than come to the U.S. every season for 2 months, my family is at home and I miss them dearly.

It is a business but a personal one, and that is how you establish relationships, and get the needed clients in your camp.

My best always

spoonieduck said:

I hear you loud and clear. Back in, I think, 1987--granted 20 years ago--I paid $8,000.00 for a 15 day hunt for truly enormous elephant in Ethiopia. My friend got one--at that same price--of 124 and 126 lbs on a side [unfortunately, I wasn't so fortunate]. One hunter got one of 150 lbs per side at that price. Check out the prices of bull elephant prices now even in places unlikely to produce more than a 40 pounder. By the way, don't overestimate the accomplishment. Anybody can can do it if he has the dinero. Then again, anybody can buy a Ferrari if he has the money. You place the crosshairs in the right place….exhale…..slowly…….s...l...o...w..l….y………..pomp! The bull collapses like a sack of feed corn. It's a done deal. We've all been there, haven't we?

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Ah the good old day's. Anyone who would as you say overestimate the accomplishment just because someone has the money probably has not hunted much. Granted an outfitter could keep clients away from a particular area weather it's for deer or any other animal. But it's still hunting. No guarantees unless your hunting a 500 acre enclosure

spoonieduck said:

I hear you loud and clear. Back in, I think, 1987--granted 20 years ago--I paid $8,000.00 for a 15 day hunt for truly enormous elephant in Ethiopia. My friend got one--at that same price--of 124 and 126 lbs on a side [unfortunately, I wasn't so fortunate]. One hunter got one of 150 lbs per side at that price. Check out the prices of bull elephant prices now even in places unlikely to produce more than a 40 pounder. By the way, don't overestimate the accomplishment. Anybody can can do it if he has the dinero. Then again, anybody can buy a Ferrari if he has the money. You place the crosshairs in the right place….exhale…..slowly…….s...l...o...w..l….y………..pomp! The bull collapses like a sack of feed corn. It's a done deal. We've all been there, haven't we?

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I could not agree less, over simplifying to the degree that should be regarded as laughable...

My best always

G

Jaco Strauss said:

I could not agree less, over simplifying to the degree that should be regarded as laughable...

My best always

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Good, basically the response I've had from others. If you don't come to the big conventions, business disappears which probably says a lot more about some safari hunters than it does about Outfitters or PHs. Why does a hunter need to go to Disneyland to book a hunt? I don't get it. Hunting would seem to be the antithesis of Las Vegas glitz and flashing lights. Isn't the hunt such a compelling activity that a hunter will do it one way or another?

Then again, maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. Maybe your average hunter who has enough money will 'get it done', but maybe the hunting industry is so competitive that an outfitter simply must get out there and compete. The difference between success and failure may be only 10%. That extra 10-15% may be at the conventions.

Just returned from a brown bear hunt in Kodiak Alaska booked thru Northwood Adventures Gary Stressed. THE WORST HUNT I HAVE EVER BEEN ON. Jose Polanco "THE BEAR HUNTER" Is a joke. I have been hunting for over 38 years and been on guided hunts before and this was nothing more than a scam. If anyone would like more information about our adventure please e mail me at CIMCORP@hughes.net

Chris Singelyn said:

Just returned from a brown bear hunt in Kodiak Alaska booked thru Northwood Adventures Gary Stressed. THE WORST HUNT I HAVE EVER BEEN ON. Jose Polanco "THE BEAR HUNTER" Is a joke. I have been hunting for over 38 years and been on guided hunts before and this was nothing more than a scam. If anyone would like more information about our adventure please e mail me at CIMCORP@hughes.net

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Please post a hunting report Chris.

Chris Singelyn said:

Just returned from a brown bear hunt in Kodiak Alaska booked thru Northwood Adventures Gary Stressed. THE WORST HUNT I HAVE EVER BEEN ON. Jose Polanco "THE BEAR HUNTER" Is a joke. I have been hunting for over 38 years and been on guided hunts before and this was nothing more than a scam. If anyone would like more information about our adventure please e mail me at CIMCORP@hughes.net

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First, welcome to AH.

Second, as Brickburn said, please post a report and give details.

Thanks for the heads up.

Agree with Brick and Wheels. Would love to see the details...sunshine is a great disinfectant, as they say.

spoonieduck said:

G


Good, basically the response I've had from others. If you don't come to the big conventions, business disappears which probably says a lot more about some safari hunters than it does about Outfitters or PHs. Why does a hunter need to go to Disneyland to book a hunt? I don't get it. Hunting would seem to be the antithesis of Las Vegas glitz and flashing lights. Isn't the hunt such a compelling activity that a hunter will do it one way or another?

Then again, maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. Maybe your average hunter who has enough money will 'get it done', but maybe the hunting industry is so competitive that an outfitter simply must get out there and compete. The difference between success and failure may be only 10%. That extra 10-15% may be at the conventions.

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Maybe I missed it in one of your posts, but have you actually attended a convention? I am a big fan of DSC's event, which has a bit less splash than Vegas, but both are quite a bit more than just a place to book a hunt. Indeed, I book nearly all of my international hunts through a trusted consultant (who will be at the show), but the relationships I have established among fellow hunters, guides (PHs), and outfitters is a lot more than I have with the Pakistani who sells me milk at the local shop and rob. It is great to see those who attend and to catch up or retell an old adventure. Gun dealers, who I have known for years will be in attendance (with some of their very best stuff) along with art, books, clothing, campaign furniture, and the best taxidermy in the country. One of the Outdoor networks TV "personalities" will be there who is a very old friend, and one whom I am lucky now see once a year. We'll have dinner with a couple of our friends who also happen to be PHs and sit over something amber for half the night. Most importantly, the conventions act as a great intro to international hunting for a host of attendees, who are considering taking the plunge. That interaction swells our ranks helping preserve our hunting base and to support outfitters. I frankly think the annual gatherings are a major assist to our sport.