SA PH's and Outitters- How does the game breeding affect your hunting business?

Yep! It's a bubble and it will burst. The market will set the price and the last ones standing will fall.



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It definitely has an effect on the prices we as outfitters are charged. I don't do business with farmers who jumped into this new "goldrush". I think this colour breeding will one day be remembered as a crime against wildlife where the good genes were taken away from the natural gene pool to breed freaks. Like mentioned before this is definitely a pyramid scheme with no end user. There are hundreds of farmers blinded by this taking out massive bonds on family farms to set up herds. If the colour breeding cools down within the next few years you will see crocodile tears everywhere as family farms get sold off.

Paw Print said:

It definitely has an effect on the prices we as outfitters are charged. I don't do business with farmers who jumped into this new "goldrush". I think this colour breeding will one day be remembered as a crime against wildlife where the good genes were taken away from the natural gene pool to breed freaks. Like mentioned before this is definitely a pyramid scheme with no end user. There are hundreds of farmers blinded by this taking out massive bonds on family farms to set up herds. If the colour breeding cools down within the next few years you will see crocodile tears everywhere as family farms get sold off.

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Totally agree with Pieter here. We own private land as well, and decided not to jump on this train!! It was very tempting at first but when we looked the whole thing through it is obvious that this is a crime to nature!!

When this bubble burst we will go out and buy ranches for next to nothing as people is putting their life earnings into this! It is not nice to see this and i really hope that some of these farmers can make back some of the money they have borrowed before it is too late!!

As said before there will always be a premium on some species like nyala, buffalo, sable and roan and people will continue to breed these animals as there is a end market for them!! But all these white, black, copper, golden and brindle animals are just not good for nature at all!!

Just my 2 cents

Regards

If what I know about white tigers is correct, wouldn't most of these color variant animals have a ton of health problems from inbreeding?

For me I don't know why but I love colored springbucks. Maybe because they were already being hunting by the time I started looking into really hunting Africa. But I have not even thought about hunting a black impala or any of the other colored animals. I think game breeding has a place for certain animals but not just to make a different animal to be hunted.
I do think as a hunter more guys breeding sable and buff will help with lower pricing. I know 5 years ago you did not see a sable in SA for under 8500 now you see them cheaper all the time.

I do hope the market does not ruin the hunting long term and the good outfitters can get through this phase going on now.

The main draw of hunting in Africa is the primal nature, the last true adventure. If I want to hunt genetic freaks I can drive an hour from my house, pick it out from the pen, and the go "hunt" it.

I just don't get where the demand for these thing is coming from. Then again I've seen canned hunts for whitetail deer with big scores here go for over $8,000.

Folks used Emu as an example of a "market crash" earlier in the thread. I lived in Texas at the time and remember some of that craziness and of people losing their shirts because they couldn't get enough of those Emus!!!

So.... I did a quick internet search on buying Emus today. IF my data is right (remember my source - the internet) here is the pricing:

Today

$250 - $450 per breeding pair, or chicks for sub $100

1996 (data supposedly from the Texas Agricultural Extension Service)

Emu chicks aged between 3 and 4 months old are $3,500 to $4,500 each. Day-old chicks are rarely available, but if available, are priced from upwards of $1,000. The disadvantage of purchasing day-old chicks is that their sex cannot be determined at such a young age. Yearling emu prices for a sexed pair range between $12,000 and $18,000, whilst two-year-old birds go for $25,000 to $28,000 per pair. If you wish to purchase a pair of emus that have proven to be good breeders, the pair can easily go for between $30,000 and $40,000.

Sounds kinda similar to some of the game breeding stuff, but in reverse, huh???

Royal it was exactly the same here with Ostrich.

Farmers have to be Gamblers at heart to even stay in the industry. Perhaps that is the reason for the behaviour all around the world.

I think a bunch will make a bunch of money. It will all come down to who read the market right and gets out just before it blows up in there face. I do think we are a few years from finding out all the answers though.

BRICKBURN said:

Royal it was exactly the same here with Ostrich.

Farmers have to be Gamblers at heart to even stay in the industry. Perhaps that is the reason for the behaviour all around the world.

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Yup! BRICKBURN you hit the nail on the head!

I'm a farmer and always have been. Cannot buy a lottery ticket. The only fun I can have in a Casino is scabbing free drinks and hanging out with buddies ... And of course when some of those waitresses go by

However I will excitedly risk and don't even anymore asking my banker for $,,, (well I better not say, but lots!) to risk farming! Of course I don't "really" see it as a risk. But rather as an investment that carries some calculated level of uncertainty

Bossie I am in SA right now and I can tell you it's a joke with the way things are going. A lot of colours being bred and sold and none being hunted. So there is no end user for the product and traders are falsely inflating the prices by buying back animals when the prices drop. Great hunting areas have turned into M&M farms down here and taken away prime hunting areas from hunters.

Game prices are just stupid at the moment and every one seems to think they are going to make it big. I can tell you now that guys are not only going to loose money in the next 5 years, but also their properties and everything else when the market crashes and it will.
I am going to smile all the way when we start driven hunting for black Impala

Hi Bossie

This is a very interesting topic...........

I think it is always important to reflect back on how things was before criticising how they are now.

I know this 20 years ago my area was nearly all cattle with small pockets of plains game it has changed tremendously with Sable, Roan, Cape Buffalo and now you have farmers focussing on their plains game numbers and management all of a sudden game has a value and is not simply being shot for the pot so to speak.

Personally I am largely in favour of this since I feel that South Africa's plains game have been over hunted for years not to even mention DG.

The sudden rise in kudu prices is not simply down to the breeding industry we can thank our friends who shoot over a 100 bulls a season for this as well.

Bottom line for me is what goes up must come down there has to be a balance however in saying that would I as a land owner be happy if my game is worthless unless shot? NO most certainly not while I believe that prices are abnormally high right now I would rather have it this way around and there are good populations of verious species than seeing land go back to cattle farming.

Im my opinion we are sitting with a number of problems in SA, TOO many outfitter, PH's can't make a living due to this since every PH just becomes an Outfitter (some of them get out of the hunting industry totally that saddens me since they are usually the few good PH's), game breeding prices are abnormally high so taking all of this in to account we will have to see a structure change in this system. There is no long term balance in this right now no matter how you approach it.

With regards to colour variants HHHMMM don't see the market there not much more too it, I agree with Jaco that good genetics might be more beneficial in the long run for all!

Gone are the days of drop off and shoot, moving massive volumes of animals we have to take a step back and focus on the long term sustainability. This will not ONLY be for the farmers this would come in to play for Outfitters as well and in the long run if done right and Outfitter numbers go down it will ensure my PH friends would be able to make a living and be in an industry that they also love and deserve to be in.

Bottom line we are a long way from being perfect but we are a lot closer thanks to game having a value (and once again I realise it is too hight at the moment) than we were a few years ago.....

Best Regards
Louis van Bergen

I'm hunting in South Africa in june of this year. This will be my third and final time in RSA. I have no interest in black, white, copper and pink springbok. Last time in RSA I hunted with a PH who's very big in game farming also. He farms golden wildebbest and black impala amongst others.

He showed me the prices that people were achieving at the auctions and it was hard to understand why they were selling for so much more than current trophy fees.

It gave me the impression that hunting in RSA is just all completely fake. I've always avoided small fenced areas and put and take shooting (I refuse to call it hunting), but having man made animals just makes the whole thing worse.

I can see why many people cash in on this tulipmania like craze. I can understand how the hunting industry will be affected, outfitters as well as clients. But hunting in RSA now looks more and more farcical with the increase of these mutants.

I've already booked RSA, and will be looking at wild type examples of species in their native range. But going forward I just don't see any appeal left in RSA to hunt an overpriced copper springbok. These animals must appeal to 'bone collectors' not real naturalists and hunter types.

MJ75 said:

I'm hunting in South Africa in june of this year. This will be my third and final time in RSA. I have no interest in black, white, copper and pink springbok. Last time in RSA I hunted with a PH who's very big in game farming also. He farms golden wildebbest and black impala amongst others.

He showed me the prices that people were achieving at the auctions and it was hard to understand why they were selling for so much more than current trophy fees.

It gave me the impression that hunting in RSA is just all completely fake. I've always avoided small fenced areas and put and take shooting (I refuse to call it hunting), but having man made animals just makes the whole thing worse.

I can see why many people cash in on this tulipmania like craze. I can understand how the hunting industry will be affected, outfitters as well as clients. But hunting in RSA now looks more and more farcical with the increase of these mutants.

I've already booked RSA, and will be looking at wild type examples of species in their native range. But going forward I just don't see any appeal left in RSA to hunt an overpriced copper springbok. These animals must appeal to 'bone collectors' not real naturalists and hunter types.

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MJ, what does the breeding of these color variants have to do with hunting? So, my question, how does it make the hunting industry fake? These animals do not get hunted. Never seen someone posing with a Golden Wildebeest before, not to mentioned paying $50-60K for one.

KMG Hunting Safaris said:

MJ, what does the breeding of these color variants have to do with hunting? So, my question, how does it make the hunting industry fake? These animals do not get hunted. Never seen someone posing with a Golden Wildebeest before, not to mentioned paying $50-60K for one.

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I was wondering the same thing marius. But I was getting jealous to because I myself don't have a pink springbuck and I love hunting springbuck.LOL

billc said:

I was wondering the same thing marius. But I was getting jealous to because I myself don't have a pink springbuck and I love hunting springbuck.LOL

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Just give it time. Pink Springbuck is on the way. Read the other day at current there are 16 different types of Springbuck.

Pink springbuck? Is that what pink panthers eat?

......don't ask me to name them.

KMG Hunting Safaris said:

......don't ask me to name them.

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I did see some on a game auction site. I do like the way the coffee one look like. But then they have blue which is like a silver grey. buff,cotton candy, yellow ,saddle back and like 3 others but I cant remember them all. I do know those coffee ones are around a long time and raised in the cape. Rumor has it jules of karoo bought some and that is there next project. The coffee do look very nice and seem to have been around longer then even the other colored ones.

MJ75 said:

It gave me the impression that hunting in RSA is just all completely fake

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as marius said, and i also dont understand why you can say all hunting in SA is fake

MJ75 said:

But going forward I just don't see any appeal left in RSA to hunt an overpriced copper springbok.

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thats your choice and you dont have to........plenty of other run of the mill coloured animals available in large areas for you to hunt