Same outfitter or try something new?

I've only been on one safari, so far. I went with Kido Safaris in KZN and had a great hunt, I really want to & plan on hunting with them again. However, my question is, do I go back to what I know was good or do I see somewhere different? I'm just looking for people's opinions and what they've done, how they make that decision. I see guys going back to the same PH/outfitter for the third, fourth or even more times and think, 'that must be a great place to hunt.' Again, I've only been on one safari, but it was a great one; at the same time as much as I want to go back again and again, the reality is getting back to Africa more than a couple more times would be very tough to do. As I read hunt reports and spend time here on AH, I find there are several PHs/outfitters I would like to hunt with just making the decision harder. So, do I go back to what I know was great or try something new?

This is such a tough one to answer really. I have picked different places but that was based on wanting to see other areas. It is so different here in the states picking outfitters over ones in SA. Just something about how must Sa outfitters make you want to hunt with them. You could go back have a great hunt with the same place. Then again you could book with someone else and have as good or even a better time.

I do plan on hunting with loodt and Pieter next trip again but may try someone else down the road just to see more of Africa. I really don't think either way you go is wrong.

This is a tough question that I struggle with also. For me it depends on where I'm going. Everywhere I've been I tend to go back with the same outfitter. Africa is where I find this difficult because I want to see all of Africa. My first trip to Africa will be this summer but I'm fortunate that my Ph has areas all over the place. What I like about this is I can hunt with someone I know and still see many different places and have different experiences. In some cases I could even hunt different countries. Andri has places to hunt in RSA, Namibia, and Mozambique but still have the security of knowing my Ph.

This is a good topic.

Kind of remind me of a guy who goes to the same restaurant and bar, would never think of changing and thinks it is the best. While many other business provide the same and or better service.

1. What Countries are you interested in?
2. What Trophies are you interested in?

While it is nice to go back to the same group you hunted with. There are many good outfitters and PH's to go with. Your part will be determining who and what to hunt and then do your back ground checks. Asking for a complete hunter list for the prior year to call or e-mail each and every one of them. Before booking.

For your second hunt i would suggest that you look at a different country and trophy list to go after.

You like safe, so i would suggest you should try Namibia. (I have not been there however it is on to to go to list)

James.Grage said:

Kind of remind me of a guy who goes to the same restaurant and bar, would never think of changing and thinks it is the best. While many other business provide the same and or better service.

1. What Countries are you interested in?
2. What Trophies are you interested in?

While it is nice to go back to the same group you hunted with. There are many good outfitters and PH's to go with.

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I think it's nice to hunt different areas and experience the terrain and indigenous species of those other areas or countries. But in the long run it's a to each his own decision based upon your comfort level and maybe how adventurous you are.

Whatever you decide good hunting to you!

Not been, but I think I'd like to see the different areas. The Serengeti, hunting in the shadow of Mount Kilamengro, Kruger, the deltas there is so much to experience on that continent. It would be hard to go back to the same place.

Part of the fun for me is seeing different provinces and countries and meeting new people, plus different species in different areas. I've hunted with 2 different PHs in Namibia in different areas, and four different Provinces in SA with different outfitters. Never been to the same place twice, on my hunts this year I will be going back to the same Province but in different areas and different outfitters, that said I will probably return and hunt with some that I've hunted with in the past because they're great people and I had good times. It's all good but I think you should widen out and taste as much as you can!!

If you like the PH and outfitter going back can be good, especially if you are looking for animals you didn't get the first time. Sometimes trying different places is good too. I know I want to hunt KZN at some point. I think some outfitters are better than others to what options they can offer the hunter too. Trying new things if good but going back to place that is safe and comfortable has it's perks too.

This is a tough one!!! And one I've thought about....

I think it depends what you want to hunt, where you want to go, and how much you liked the outfitter. I know some people who do the same beach vacation at the same beach house every year, year after year. Other people do a different vacation to a different place every year. That's pretty much what this is, just a personal choice.

There is no right or wrong answer. Well, that isn't completely true because not going on safari number two is just plain silly!

Also ask your ph if he has places in different areas to hunt. Often they do and you can hunt a different area with the ph you really like. A ph or here in the states a guide that you really like is important. The better you get to know each other the better the hunt can be. Once you know how each other works thats when the best hunts happen. You KNOW when he says hold off for a better animal he knows what he is capable of and you know he is. I have clients that book with me every year and the hunts are very smooth. We know what each other is thinking and how we like to opperate which makes for a better experience on both ends. All that being said if you really want to hunt an area or animal that he cant provide go for it. I would still ask him about it because he may be able to refer you to someone who can provide that hunt who is reputable. It takes a lot of guess work out and you know your going with someone who isnt going to screw you. I have other ranches here in the states that I refer people to that want hunts that I dont or cant provide and visa versa.

Well I never hunted with same outfitter twice except with Louis and Spiral Horns Safari, after the first hunt I thought same thing Louis did such a great job and that Lion Hunt will forever be a special hunt. However as I talked with Louis he came up with different hunts all over SA, so after last year's 3rd trip and all were special Leopard, Tiny 10 etc. I thought well we hunted East Cape, Free State, Limpopo, NW territory, Kalahari so time to move on Nope got a great deal on Cape Buffalo up by Kruger and he had a another hunt in two other country's to pick from. So I guess I say having a relationship with one outfitter is a good thing. Africa is different and I hunted lot of places great outfitter's on here define "Customer Service" I agree on wanting to hunt with other members on here heck I talked to KMZ a bunch Louis knows it and I am honest to both of them and who knows what may happen one day but in the end Louis has exceeded all my expectations same as I am sure Maruis does for his customers. So I stay with Louis and cannot wait till July for #4 with him.

Happy Hunting

Excellent question, thanks for posting it.

My first Africa safari was through Cabela's and I hunted Namibia.
Loved Namibia but disliked my PH.
He turned out to be just a motorhead/road hunter, and did not want to honor the prior agreement he made with me to do as much walking and glassing as possible.
Also, he was generally grumpy and seemed to resent having to guide foreigners in order to make a living.
He even told me he was only a PH in order to be able to buy a farm some day.

His wife seemed more like a servant than a partner and his children acted more like wild animals than human beings, to include searching my room each day while I was away hunting.
He tried to blame this on the hired help, even after I caught one of his little criminal brats in my room one day as we returned early.

Next, I booked with a PH who was recommended to me by an acquaintance and we hunted in Limpopo, South Africa.
He turned out to be such a good PH and good person in general that now I have hunted with him three times.
Originally, I wanted to see as many African countries as possible before I croaked but, it is difficult for me to book with some unknown PH when I already know one who has leased about 500,000 acres of prime hunting and fishing lands and who pretty much now seems like a relative member of my family.
A specific 100,000 acre concession of his leases has no fence between it and the Kruger Park (shot the buffalo in my avatar there).

These days for plains game, I will probably always book with him.
But if my knee ever heals up well enough to hunt elephant (had surgery on it a few months ago), it might be that he gets me the best deal and it might be that someone else does, in whatever country.
Likewise, if my knee never gets back up to speed, I plan to focus on a hippo instead but will only settle for one on land.
The PH I am so comfortable with admittedly cannot promise a hippo permit each year for his areas and even when he gets the odd permit it is both expensive and near impossible to predict if we could find one out of the water around there, at least not during the day very likely at all.

So, long boring story short, I'd say it all depends on what sort of PH's you end up getting to know, as you go along in your over-seas hunting experiences.

Cheerio,
Velo Dog.

Velo Dog said:

Excellent question, thanks for posting it.

My first Africa safari was through Cabela's and I hunted Namibia.
Loved Namibia but disliked my PH.
He turned out to be just a motorhead/road hunter, and did not want to honor the prior agreement he made with me to do as much walking and glassing as possible.
Also, he was generally grumpy and seemed to resent having to guide foreigners in order to make a living.
He even told me he was only a PH in order to be able to buy a farm some day.

His wife seemed more like a servant than a partner and his children acted more like wild animals than human beings, to include searching my room each day while I was away hunting.
He tried to blame this on the hired help, even after I caught one of his little criminal brats in my room one day as we returned early.

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Sounds like a freakin' nightmare!!! Curious as if to whether or not you complained to Cabela's, and what their response (if any) was.
Had similar issues in the past; one was with a charter captain in Alaska, the other was with a deer outfitter in N.C......long and short of it is that the complaints went unanswered.
I've only been to Africa once, but intend to go back.......I have nothing but high praise for my outfittter (Cruiser safaris) and would hunt with them again in a heart beat.
Having said that, I must also say that there are some species that I would like that they don't offer, so I will eventually have to hunt with someone else in order to bag those trophies.
Another thing is cost.....I am not a man of means; I need to keep an eye on my expenses and have to try and get "the most bang for the buck" (pun intended). There are some great deals out there, and the prices on some species seem to vary widely from some outfitters to another.......I am sure there are reasons for this, but for someone who is not interested in "making book", and just the hunting experience, if I can save $500-$1000 on an animal and use those savings elsewhere (another critter, air fare, taxidermy expenses, etc), I'm most likely going to do it.
If the difference is a few hundred dollars overall, I'm not going to quibble about it.....it is well worth that to hunt with someone you know (and trust), but if crunching the numbers shows me a significant savings, I'm probably going to give the new guy a shot.

Velo Dog said:

...............
Originally, I wanted to see as many African countries as possible before I croaked but, it is difficult for me to book with some unknown PH when I already know one ..................

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I have watched people work the plan; See multiple places, hunt multiple species. Also, the comfort factor really comes into it for many. (Certainly after reading nightmares like yours)

After what felt like hard work (research) to find someone that "worked" they do not want to go through all the work again to find another and take the chance.

I am now mixed on the whole thing.
Familiarity is a nice feature of a trip, but seeing new country and animals has such a drawing power.

I have found places I do not want to hunt again (very small farm) and also some individual PH's that won't see my face again (wrong attitude). All a learning experience to me.

I would go back to Ozondjahe in a flash. Have not seen the whole place and I love Namibia.
I have been to Leeukop in KZN twice and there is still country there I could wander.
Going back into the South African mountains again with the same PH this trip.

Trying something brand new with Marius at KMG this time. New species, new country.

Have had a reservation fall through and am now searching for another opportunity for that week. For someone who usually plans and nails things down a long way in advance this is new country for me.

I obviously have no issues repeating outfits but I sure seem to be heading to new places. So, no definitive answer for you really.

IMO Africa is too big of a place to limit yourself to one area. My advise is to find an outfitter that hunts multiple areas, as suggested above. I use Chris Troskie of www.ct-safaris.com , I have hunted 5 South African provinces with him. He also hunts 2 more provinces and even more unique habitats within these provinces as well as in Botswana and Zim. There is still plenty of new completely different places left to hunt with him and knowing that I will be well taken care of by a trusted outfitter and friend makes the whole thing effortless and worry free.

Mr. 16 gauge said:

Sounds like a freakin' nightmare!!! Curious as if to whether or not you complained to Cabela's, and what their response (if any) was.
Had similar issues in the past; one was with a charter captain in Alaska, the other was with a deer outfitter in N.C......long and short of it is that the complaints went unanswered.
I've only been to Africa once, but intend to go back.......I have nothing but high praise for my outfittter (Cruiser safaris) and would hunt with them again in a heart beat.
Having said that, I must also say that there are some species that I would like that they don't offer, so I will eventually have to hunt with someone else in order to bag those trophies.
Another thing is cost.....I am not a man of means; I need to keep an eye on my expenses and have to try and get "the most bang for the buck" (pun intended). There are some great deals out there, and the prices on some species seem to vary widely from some outfitters to another.......I am sure there are reasons for this, but for someone who is not interested in "making book", and just the hunting experience, if I can save $500-$1000 on an animal and use those savings elsewhere (another critter, air fare, taxidermy expenses, etc), I'm most likely going to do it.
If the difference is a few hundred dollars overall, I'm not going to quibble about it.....it is well worth that to hunt with someone you know (and trust), but if crunching the numbers shows me a significant savings, I'm probably going to give the new guy a shot.

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Hello Mr. 16 gauge,

Yes I complained to Cabela's, by phone, email and the hand written questionnaire included in the package deal that I had bought on that first safari of mine.
In each, I opened my complaint with making it extremely clear; I did not want anything except acknowledgement that they needed to have a closer look at "Burchell Safaris" before sending any more beginners like me over there.

No response to any of it.

The man at Cabela's who actually booked it for me was named Russell Selle and he never did return my two calls or respond to my emails or my written information, nobody did.
Last I heard of "Burchell Safaris" was that they had folded under a hail storm of law suits from angry clients.
Even though my wife is a Lawyer, (she writes contracts - definitely not a defense lawyer or ambulance chaser) I'm too lazy to have joined the legal fray.
Besides, I did get some hunting in and the only real financial loss is from them obviously doing their own taxidermy, as my sculls and skins were pretty much ruined by whatever chemical bath they soaked everything in.
And they obviously dummied up a fake Taxidermist license / export permit number, because that is one of the corner stone complaints in the law suits filed against those crooked bastards.
I have kept the ruined items as conversation pieces but they are in my garage instead of in my man cave, because they still have a bit of an odor, even after almost 13 years now.

In other news, I am totally with you on not worrying about record book animals.
For me, tape measures are perfect for carpentry and similar projects, not much else.
Hunters who agonize over "gold medal" this and "silver medal" that, a half inch here and a centimeter there must be miserable half the time.
I just like to go hunting, in fact most of the deer and caribou I have shot, have been does, cows, spike bucks, fork horn bucks, half grown bulls and such (and I have shot a pile of both over my life).
Now and then I have shot a big male and kept the antlers but have never measured any of them, because "scoring" mean nothing to me and I truly mean nothing.

Other than culling in Africa (which I have done) the PHs have put me on some fine animals but, I cannot tell you what any of them measure, except that I think the PH told me the buffalo in my avatar was a bit over 42 inches, if my memory serves me correctly for once.
The reason this is familiar to me is because he seemed very excited about this measurement.
But, one of my Alaskan friends here thinks it's closer to 44 inches.
Seems like the PH is likely more accurate but who cares, not me.
I would have preferred one with a single horn anyway, as a result of fighting other bulls.
And what would that have measured, perhaps 24 inches? - LOL.

Also, like yourself I am but a simple working man and therefore must be careful not to over-spend.
I have my retirement pension from a completed career, plus I am a Security Guard and my wife is retired as well but now on her 2nd career.
However, she racked up a huge student loan (over $150,000.) plus, we recently bought a new house (new old house).
Not to mention that one of our two cars is about to give up the ghost and so, even though we both have steady incomes, we do not have huge incomes and definitely don't have money to burn.

"Cast down thy tape measure and look not upon the Record Book, for by this thou shalt free thyself from the great shackles and heavy chain of meaningless data."

Regards,
Velo Dog.

I have hunted with three different outfitters, but there is one with which I am more comfortable dealing with.
I think that´s the main issue, trust !
If I want a specific animal, I know he can arrange it, and I am willing to hunt with him or any of the PH´s he works with.

Velo Dog,
Sorry to hear about your troubles. I've never booked a hunt through an agent as I go directly to the hunt source via word of mouth recommendations by others. I'm not saying everyone should do it that way but it's worked for me for many years. Having said that I'm surprised to hear you were treated that way by the likes of Cabela's. I would have thought they were a company that would have at least acknowledged your complaint and done a little follow-up. Disappointing to be sure.

Thanks for the input & advice. I like the idea of a trusted PH and going to new places with him. I plan on visiting with Henk and see what other areas he works in and if that is an option. Any more opinions, please share them. I'm still not sure if I'll stay the familiar route or go with something new - but I am going to go back to Africa for sure.

hunting4sanity said:

I like the idea of a trusted PH and going to new places with him.

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This is what I've done. Three safaris with the same PH in South Africa, but at different places each time. Four with the same Zimbabwean PH, some in Zim and some not. I like them, I trust them, and if there is a problem or issue with a hunt of camp, they deal with it. But frankly we don't have many if not most of the problems you often read about here simply because they know the areas and the people in a way that I never could, no matter how much research I did. Adds a huge comfort factor to every hunt, plus the fact that I know in advance I'm going to have a s***load of fun.

Find someone you like and trust, and use them in different areas.