318 Westley Richards Calibre Double Rifle -- But

Hi Guys just want to show off !

Just purchased my first double rifle !

A BSW Suhl Feb 1938 Manufacture - Mint condition - subsequently Austrian Re Proof , Post war I assume !

in 318 WR have not been able to find another anywhere on the net made by Simpson or Suhl in that calibre ?


Appealing to you wiser and more knowledgeable folks if you have any further information.


Rifle arriving later this week with kynochammunition.co.uk for checking and indeed regulating !


Already got a couple of play dates organised for the rifle !

Giraffe cull in Limpopo and Warthog over on the east coast !


Ohh the scope is 3-12x56 for a 200m rifle seems a little overkill !


Your suggestions for a replacement would be appreciated ! Considering 100m would be max range on the Warthog and indeed 30 probably on the Giraffe with soilds.

nice liking rifle. Europeans often have more liberal shooting hours than we in states, hence the huge scopes for max light gathering. I believe these rifles look best with small scopes-if any-A 1.5 to 5 leupold or their great 2.5-8 will max out this fine old cartridge. Incidently,hawk in usa is making good .330 diam bullets for this gun

looks nice can you put some full length photos on ? at those distances use the iron sights. as its already got the mounts for that big scope it might be difficult to find a smaller one that fits them and still gives you the correct eye relief.

Hi

spike.t said:

looks nice can you put some full length photos on ? at those distances use the iron sights. as its already got the mounts for that big scope it might be difficult to find a smaller one that fits them and still gives you the correct eye relief.

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Spike thought that just going through the waiting period to get it - export permits to Iceland etc etc


So should be with me Feb 2015 with a bit of luck -

I will get you all the photos you desire then .

Off to Knoch in the UK to sort regulating etc - guys down there are amazing !

Scope mounts I am very lucky - a motorbiking buddy of mine and a brilliant friend has a company making very high precision components - so if SOL on different mounts -

Quick cad drawing and the org mounts ....... 2 weeks news mounts !

So will see


thanks for the advice

Giraffe with solids for body shots should work ...... PH is confident !

Will keep you guys informed of progress !

that 250grn should penetrate nicely. a friend had a .318 double and it was very accurate . i know david at kynamco/kynoch and as you say a good bunch. be good if your mate can sort the mounts so they fit the original mount holes on the rib so you dont have to have new ones dug into it. are they claw mounts? .........otherwise i would leave as is . it will also be great for boar in europe with the irons, and if you need a scope its already fitted even if a bit on the long side, its not like you have to use/keep it mounted all the time .maybe for the future it will be good for low light shots at leopard as well

Spike thanks for the input ............ kinda liked you until you mentioned Mr.Spots at this rate of going it will be years before a beer ration can be afforded.

My liver however passes on its thanks

Will keep you updated with progress !

Odinsraven said:

Spike thanks for the input ............ kinda liked you until you mentioned Mr.Spots at this rate of going it will be years before a beer ration can be afforded.

My liver however passes on its thanks

Will keep you updated with progress !

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and then it would be great to see you shoot a nice sable on ours with it no more for you but we will and think of you

Hi Odinsraven,

In Karamojo Bell's book "The Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter" he stated that the .318 WR was his favorite cartridge with 250 gr "solids" (RN-FMJ).

I can only guess that he indicated he took most of his ivory with the 7x57 / .275 rigby, either because that caliber of ammunition was easier to get in places like Uganda or, possibly it sounded more sensational to write it that way (there is some strong evidence that Bell also ordered two Rigby Mausers in .416, plus at least a thousand rounds of live 410 grain "Solids", sealed in "Tropical Tins" ...... but as I recall, he does not mention this in said book ......hmmmm.

Moving right along, Westley Richards built some very fine doubles in .318 caliber, not to mention quite a few Mauser action repeaters in .318 as well.

My best guess is that someone, probably in a country where boar are hunted at night (over-sized scope), paid the maker to build this rifle specifically for them, because it was quite a very good quality rifle, but for only a fraction of the price, compared to a Westley Richards built double in this caliber.

Maybe someone hunting India boar or even tiger at night wanted it in this caliber (many Simpson & Sohn doubles were usually built in 9.3x74R on what looks like your rifle's similar frame size.)

I would just keep the scope as it is, in the original rings, in a safe place at home, just in case of an invite to hunt boar in low light or if you find yourself in a leopard blind/lion over bait, or some such, etc.

Sitting in a pig, leopard or lion blind, hopefully will not require totally perfect balance of your double rifle but, following up any wounded animal (dangerous species or not) might have you taking off the scope to improve the fast handling qualities of this beautiful rifle and that is the glory of claw mounts.

Your motor biking friend has probably already told you that a dogleg type forward claw ring can be made to fit a shorter/lighter scope on your double.

That being said, for me personally I do not care for scopes on double rifles in general.

I once owned a Merkel .375 H&H with 2.5x scope in claw mounts.

Unfortunately, even the tiny scope I had on it changed the already less than perfect handling qualities, to even further away from perfect balance.

I found that I derived the most pleasure from that rifle when the scope was in my pocket, instead of on the Merkel.

Since then I have owned a couple other doubles and did not scope them at all, but that is only my personal snag/character flaw, definitely not The Gospel for all double rifle owners.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

PS:
Now I am jealous.

Wow what a great rifle. I have a WR take down bolt action in .318 and it will do anything a .338 would hope to do out to 250 meters or so. In the current configuration your rifle would have been a boar killing machine from a high seat over snow. It is almost certainly regulated for the 250 gr kynoch and I am positive you can find a load which would give you composite 2.5 to 3 inch groups at 100 meters. You can find a gunsmith who could easily mount a lighter scope for normal stalking of either reindeer or plains game. Should you decide you hate it, do let me know!!

Velo Dog said:

Hi Odinsraven,


Moving right along, Westley Richards built some very fine doubles in .318 caliber, not to mention quite a few Mauser action repeaters in .318 as well.


Cheers,
Velo Dog.

PS:
Now I am jealous.

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Yes indeed - they do with the prices to match ! However recently picked up an 318 Turnbolt - which has been converted to 8x57 at some stage - sending it to WR just to confirm that I cannot afford to have them restore it !

By one chance at immortality - to enter their ledgers - rifle returned in 2015 for full restoration, rebarreled - action serviced engraving retouched and and returned to Mr Odinsraven !

Ohh well dreaming is free as they say !

you really must not want any beer money for many many years the way your going!!!

True about the beer however bought the turnbolt as a cheap mauser action to do somthing with .....

Post auction the Auction house posted the photos of the rifle ... either that or I was too dumb to notice them , so literally bought it for pennies - I have stopped telling my buddies how cheap as they don't believe me ...... even with the invoice and the credit card receipt ....... they recon that was for the shipping not for the rifle !

Ohh well lucky in guns unlucky in love as they don't say

sounds good. bit like the cz synthetic .416 never fired i got from an auction house for not a lot

Odinsraven said:

Ohh the scope is 3-12x56 for a 200m rifle seems a little overkill !

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The scope is a Swarovsky Habicht 3-12x56 with illuminated reticle ( called BE 1) with a steel tube. It seems to be produced in the 80s of the last century It is not possible to replace such a scope with steel tube, because all newer ones have alu-tube. But it is possible to install a new front base for a shorter scope. You can get parts for this Montage from the German manufacturers like EAW. So you can use 2 scopes for different purposes.

Mannlicher

Mannlicher said:

The scope is a Swarovsky Habicht 3-12x56 with illuminated reticle ( called BE 1) with a steel tube. It seems to be produced in the 80s of the last century It is not possible to replace such a scope with steel tube, because all newer ones have alu-tube. But it is possible to install a new front base for a shorter scope. You can get parts for this Montage from the German manufacturers like EAW. So you can use 2 scopes for different purposes.

Mannlicher

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It is a claw mount. Unless you have really rare skills, a very knowledgable gunsmith will need to build the replacement rings and set a new base. Simply ordering parts will not work.

JJ Perodeau http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=32 is one of exactly two gunmakers in the States I would trust with the job. The little straight-tube Leupold VX-3 in 1.5x20 is a great choice for this application. In spite of its alluminium tube - it works well in this role and is much easier (and a bit cheaper!) to fit than a bell shaped objective. I have them on a cape gun, two drillings, and a double. They work great. Your major expense will be the new base to allow a smaller scope. Just guessing, but a claw front base and new rings will be about $900-$1200.

Red Leg said:

It is a claw mount. Unless you have really rare skills, a very knowledgable gunsmith will need to build the replacement rings and set a new base. Simply ordering parts will not work.

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It is a "Suhler Einhak-Montage", very common on such guns. The gunmakers in Ferlach or Suhl have great experience with the so-called "SEM". But all the great manufacturers are building raw parts, which have to be fitted by a gunmaker. This is in central Europe only a
little problem.

Mannlicher

Mannlicher thanks for the info as I will have it on my euro firearms pass .....you have convinced me a trip to Germany is in order what is the wurst that can Happen pilsner ?

Red Leg said:

It is a claw mount. Unless you have really rare skills, a very knowledgable gunsmith will need to build the replacement rings and set a new base. Simply ordering parts will not work.

JJ Perodeau http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=32 is one of exactly two gunmakers in the States I would trust with the job. The little straight-tube Leupold VX-3 in 1.5x20 is a great choice for this application. In spite of its alluminium tube - it works well in this role and is much easier (and a bit cheaper!) to fit than a bell shaped objective. I have them on a cape gun, two drillings, and a double. They work great. Your major expense will be the new base to allow a smaller scope. Just guessing, but a claw front base and new rings will be about $900-$1200.

Click to expand...

+1 with Red Leg regarding Champlin Arms and JJ Perodeau's expertise with installing claw mounts.
Mr. Perodeau claw mounted a Merkel SxS in .375 H&H for me and did such a perfect job that it appeared to have been made that way in the first place from the Merkel factory.
These days I am not likely to want a scope on a double rifle any more but if I ever get my $ saved up, I plan to have him claw mount two of my Mausers for scopes.

David and Co Down at Kynoch tested the rifle 1.5 inch groups on eqch barrel an Inch apart .

So very happy described the rifle as new .

As suggested here and indeed by David high seat over snow for boat etc.

Scope off for driven .....

Dam so I bought her half sister for nothing BSW Shul Boxlock ou 12 over 9.3 x 74. ....oh well the 318 is Africa the 9.3x 74 can be my Czech or Bulgarian rifle.

My mate has a Simpson in 318 WR. Nice rifle next to the Mannlicher below in a photo from our European rifle theme hunt. Europe for us excludes Britain. Also a shot of it with a buffalo taken with it.