Last Minute WHITE MALE LION HUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I am Reading threw all these post I realised that this is a very sensitive subject that I brought up with me posting a white LION Hunt.

Let me explain my Statement of "Huge Difference" to You!

I just want to make something clear that this is my views and no other Lion Breeder or Lion hunters this is how I see and experince this whole matter.

Canned Lion Hunt

I see this statement as shooting a lion in a enclosure where the lion have got no fair chance and my 6 year old girl can shoot it!! this is canned Lion Hunting to Me

Captive Bred Lions

This is lions we bred for the sole reason its going to be hunted , now by me saying hunted I mean in a registered lion hunting farm where the space is 2000ha and there is more than enough plains game for the lion to be self sustainable, now some people will say how can a captive bred lion be self sustainable now in my 7 years in breeding and working closely with lions I can surely tell you I have seen with my own eyes where these lions that have never hunted start hunting immediately , so then is this lion now a wild lion or a captive bred lion?? I have off loaded lions that has been roaming and feeding them selves for 2-3 Months already , so now is this wild or captive Lions?? Now I can promise you the instinct of a wild animal never goes away they will always stay a wild animal!!

This lion is in 2000ha area where it runs free and have a fair CHANCE of being hunted , you must remember its law here in South Africa that we are not allowed to shoot from a vehicle when hunting a lion.

So we hunt these lions on foot and I can tell you most of these hunts ends in a charge from the lion.

I can right a book about this subject and i know there will always be people that will not approve of these type of hunts but its a personal decision I think you as the client must make when hunting a lion.


This is my explanation on Canned And Captive bred Lions but I always tell the people if you havent done it you cant judge it.

CheetauSafaris said:

Let me explain my Statement of "Huge Difference" to You!

1- Captive Bred Lions is lions we bred for the sole reason its going to be hunted , now by me saying hunted I mean in a registered lion hunting farm where the space is 2000ha . . . so now is this wild or captive Lions??

2- . . . i know there will always be people that will not approve of these type of hunts but its a personal decision I think you as the client must make when hunting a lion.

3- . . . I always tell the people if you havent done it you cant judge it.

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CheetauSafaris, thank you for your explanation of the "Huge difference" between 'canned lion hunting' and 'captive bred lion hunting'.

As stated in my previous post my assessment of today's 'Hunting' is that it has slowly evolved and is now coming to be defined by new standards of acceptability. As a dinosaur, or one with what now may be considered antiquated beliefs with regard to ethical hunting, I would like to respond to 3 key issues in your most recent post.

1- You ask if a captive bred lion released on a 2000ha farm is now wild, or does it remain captive. In my view it remains captive as long as it is contained within a confined and specifically identifiable area. Is the lion likely to give a hunter and good tracking staff 'the slip'? I think not.

2- Yes, it is a personal decision as to whether one is willing to participate in such a 'hunt'. But not all personal decisions we make are correct. Some people have made hunting choices such as to participate in poaching. Understand that I am in no way inferring that the hunt you are offering is one of poaching, I am simply pointing out that not all decisions we make are correct ones.

3- If you haven't done it you can't judge it? You're kidding right? It is certainly not necessary for me to engage in an act to judge whether I believe it is right or wrong.

In any event I thank you for your thoughts on the matter of captive bred/canned hunts. I still don't see the "huge difference", but your opinions are certainly more progressive and perhaps more in line with the new direction of hunting than mine. But I will forever remain a dinosaur. Apparently there are still a few of us who remain alive and well.

I had to come in and read your post Big 5. I completely agree.

Big5 said:

3- If you haven't done it you can't judge it? You're kidding right? It is certainly not necessary for me to engage in an act to judge whether I believe it is right or wrong.

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And to that I might add, even if I contemplated doing it to see how it compares with real lion hunting in an unfenced area, it would be a frosty morning in you know where before I would spend $40,000 to do it.

Big5,
I cant agree with you more. But as you rightly put it....'Hunting' is that it has slowly evolved and is now coming to be defined by new standards of acceptability........This is what we all have to slowly contend with and hopefully down the line we shall come back to see what is really good for hunting, the hunter and sustainability of the sport.
Popo.

ok which way to the swamp, I will bring the rum lol

Hi guy’s

I just stumbled on this topic after talking to a friend and him informing me of the whole story.

Kelly you have quite a lot of good points and I would have to say that I agree with almost all you said.

This lion is to be hunted on a fenced area the fact that it is a specific white lion makes it sound even less attractive for most however to put things in to perspective.

South Africa has got a major problem with the pouching of white Rhino’s there is a lot of talk of people pouching wild/captive lions for the lion bone trade this is a direct result of poverty.

Should the hunting of captive bread lions close in South Africa I personally think it will contribute to more pouching of wild lions and from there it will be all down hill, hunting a wild lion will be a thing of the past something we only read about in old hunting books.

We are fortunate enough as hunters to know the true value of hunting game on a sustainable basis and it is our responsibility to ensure hat these species will thrive for the future generations.

Why are we looking at the whole captive bread lion in a negative way, captive bread and canned hunting is two different things folks?

Sure it would be great to hunt free roaming lions all year every year but the simple trough is that it is just not possible.

Now to get back to this specific hunt I feel that if some of the money goes to nature conservation in the form of licence fees that in turn pays people in the parks to monitor wild lion populations as well as protect them from pouching.

The key is to look past the things you would not personally agree with and determine weather it is better in the bigger scheme of things?

Do I agree with selling one particular animal NO but if it can help the wild lion populations I would have to say that there is something good that comes out of it look at it this way the lion can die of age on the same property it would have been hunted on and no money will go to nature conservation and for me this means less money to ensure the conservation of our wild lion populations.

I would like to make it clear that I personally believe that hunting the captive bread lions on foot can be more dangerous and frankly what scares me is the “I want the charge” mentality amongst us but folks for some reason people enjoy looking for trouble most probably to many late nights watching The Ghost and The Darkness LOL.

Just me 2cents!

Best Regards
Louis van Bergen

I really like Louis point of view, and I very much respect Skyline's And Big 5's view.

I wish, I could turn the hands of the clock back 50 years and go hunting....I'm not saying the hunting is bad now....just that it is different...and in some ways...all hunters are becoming dinocaurs. There are way too many people on the planet earth and wildlife is paying a huge price for our interferrance. Sure we need more "people management", but as it is we can't get anything accomplished because of politicians and lawyers. I would love to see wild land...remain wild...but it doesn't and something has to give.

Am I interested in the hunt.."No"...but I don't want to bad mouth the outfitter either...he has a right to market his hunt to the public.....if there was no market...then there would be no hunt.

The think the outfitter has a beautiful lodge and some attractive plains game packages. I'm mostly a plains game hunter...and I think he has a very Nice place and wish him the best of luck.

I probably never go lion hunting but would never condemn anyone from going on any lion hunt. Every hunter has "his or her" hunt. I really like the Canadian...."back country hunts"...that is my cup of tea. Not many or any people for that matter are out there hunting or fishing, no fences, no noise...just you and mother nature.

Just because I like North America...doesn't mean I don't see the value of hunting Africa...it is different...and that does make it special. I think if I lived in Africa, year round, my points of view would shift too.

Lunch hour is over...back to work!

That is one beautiful looking animal. I visited a white lion breeding place once in South Africa. They are a very impressive looking animal.

Bushbuck said:

That is one beautiful looking animal.

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Yes, he is a mighty fine looking animal. His name is 'Leo' and he was specially groomed for that wonderful portrait. 'Leo' is house broken and will come running when you whistle for him. 'Leo' will also sit-up, roll-over and play dead on command.

. . . now don't any of you get your under shorts all knotted up, I just couldn't help adding a bit of levity here.

Big5 said:

Yes, he is a mighty fine looking animal. His name is 'Leo' and he was specially groomed for that wonderful portrait. 'Leo' is house broken and will come running when you whistle for him. 'Leo' will also sit-up, roll-over and play dead on command.

. . . now don't any of you get your under shorts all knotted up, I just couldn't help adding a bit of levity here.

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You are killing me!!!

Go hunting while you can for watever you can afored and be prowed of the animal you prosued and took. Hold your head high for what ever type of hunting you do a know that you are trully a conservationist. LIFE IS SHORT

So here is the REAL question. What happens if after the 3 days the lion is still not successfully bagged? If you guarantee the lion will be successfully hunted in the 3 days, then it is a canned hunt. There should be no guarantees in hunting. That is the point of fair chase. The lion can escape momentarily, but will just be located again later that day, or the next.

I have hunted whitetails on approx 4000 acres high fenced in Texas. Once a deer goes into the brush it is gone, and on that size property a class of animal can be likely hunted in 3 days, but not a specific deer.

I think it is good that the "Dinosaurs" and the "Progressives" debate these points, not all "progressives" believe this is the way forward for lion hunting, as I am sure that not all "dinosaurs" are against this form of hunting lion.
It is clear that both sides have completely valid points and that by debating them like Gentlemen and Ladies (?) we can keep the hunting fraternities head held high knowing full well that we all agree to disagree but keep the focus on conservation.
The one point which has had slight mention and that could possibly be the true reason for the need for this trend in hunting, is the fact that Africa has gotten to the point where over population has led to the need for such hunting. I know just about everyone will know this, but I am going to open it up anyway.
With millions of mouths to feed, the need for livestock which lives in a completely sanitized and sterile environment, free from any form of predation has led to a circumstance where fences have become a necessity. It truly breaks a mans heart to hear of all the flora and fauna that has to be "managed" to keep these exclusive domestic livestock areas in a constant profitable state (ie no losses with maximum grazing available to domestic stock only). With food security being the most important item on any governments mind, it is only a matter of time before protected (read wild lion hunting areas) areas are invaded for the production of food, to feed the exploding population of the world. Even less space will be available for the great cats to be hunted. I am pretty sure that just about all of us would feel strange about hunting a lion in a corn field. Now this obviously ties into the hunting of lion by way of creating exclusive zones for "wild animals" where the top predators can live free, these could be referred to game parks or reserves where the greenies have got a couple of feet in the door, consequence, no HUNTING. This leaves one option for the hunter that wants to take a Lion, no less a White Lion, take a captive bred lion. The fortunate people that can afford the 21 days to pursue and hopefully take a "wild lion" should truly feel privileged and take the opportunity while they can . Already the 21 day wild lion hunt is becoming harder and harder, not for lack of lions, but lack of areas to hunt wild lions.
I was at a private reserve the past weekend where they have a white lion breeding program. I had the good fortune of playing with a bunch of lion cubs, as privileged as I felt being able to interact with this cute little critters, the thought in the back of my mind was one day these cubs would grow up and have to be sold for the sole purpose of being hunted to cover the cost of raising them. With out such programs, the space available for these lions would be lost because as the mantra goes, if it pays it stays. Given that lions can breed at an alarming rate in captivity, take away the cubs at birth to be hand raised and the Lioness will go into estrous within 2 months, a main reason why there is no shortage of captive bred lions to be hunted. Hence the reason that the captive bred market relies on hunters that just want their lion no matter how or where.
Another item that springs to mind in regards the great lion debate is the fact that if a mature wild lion (Male) is taken out of a pride situation, another moves in and kills the cubs (this is the same for a zebra breeding groups), so as a justification for taking captive bred lion rather than wild, it has some merit.
Well that was my 2cents and to the person that hunts old Leo, keep your head held high, you have just payed to feed the next generation of cubs for a couple of years and helped protect our ever shrinking areas to hunt.

I agree with you Patrick.

I think people fail big time! To really understand how big a problem it's becoming to feed the world as we go forth with a population heading towards 10 billion people in the near futures. How do you think things are going to turn out? 1) There will be more wild lions to hunt? 2) Will the price to hunt sky rocket beyond what a millionare can afford? 3) And what quality of hunt is to be had, because as we know it's damn hard to turn the clock back? or 4) We have to accept things change and we must change with the times. Accept that hunting lions behind a fence is legal and still is conserving lions and generating a lot of money in a damn tough economy.

My two cents is we need to get off the high horse and accept hunting for what it is and stop judging everyone for the way they hunt.

You are right Patrick, lions breed well in captivity. Released into a fence area, there are a hell of a lot of people getting a opportunity to hunt lion if they want too. The price doesn't cost someone a arm, leg and kidney. I guarentee if there was a big fence lion hunt in the USA in a place like New Mexico or Texas. The price would be crazy!!! And there would be a waiting list a mile long. I'm not throwing stones anymore today I live in a fragile glass house. I'm a flawed person, I've made mistakes....and I willing to say I'm not perfect.