SA PH's and Outitters- How does the game breeding affect your hunting business?

ActionBob said:

Nope, just cannot understand that either biscuits and gravy thing either.
What the hell is wrong with Bacon and eggs? And Pancakes for God's sake!

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Wanting to drive up the price of polka dotted springbuck is one thing, but when @Buff-Buster sees that you're questioning both chicken fried steak AND biscuits and gravy??? Well.... I don't know what he might do....

Yea I really stepped in it when I got tied in with all you Southerners.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but there I was with in Dallas with Nancy and Royal graciously offering to drive to the AH dinner but we have to stop off for drinks first. So we are sitting with @Buff-Buster and his wife and daughter and the HartzView crew is there as well... They are all talking about Texas and Southwest food and carrying on about that damned Yankee food like I'm not even there! Going all on about their "chicken fried steak" and how anywhere North of the Mason Dixon line it just is not the same. Then in comes @sierraone so one of these Texicans comments that well now at least I'm not on my own anymore amoungst Texans... Yea right, he's from Florida! What good is that doing me?! That's kind of like a Texan without a hat

Needless to say I had to drink my bud light quietly and after about ten minutes they all quieted down a bit so I finally got the chance to ask the question burning in my mind.....

"What the hell is chicken fried steak and is it chicken or is it steak?"

.... Needless to say it was good to finally get to dinner and sit beside a very large Afrikaner and talk some common sense elephant hunting... And to eat some regular steak!

ActionBob said:

Nope, just cannot understand that either biscuits and gravy thing either.
What the hell is wrong with Bacon and eggs? And Pancakes for God's sake!

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Nothing wrong with bacon and eggs, they go perfectly well right beside the bisquits and gravy!

And what Bob sez is pretty much exactly how it happened.

ActionBob said:

Yea I really stepped in it when I got tied in with all you Southerners.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but there I was with in Dallas with Nancy and Royal graciously offering to drive to the AH dinner but we have to stop off for drinks first. So we are sitting with @Buff-Buster and his wife and daughter and the HartzView crew is there as well... They are all talking about Texas and Southwest food and carrying on about that damned Yankee food like I'm not even there! Going all on about their "chicken fried steak" and how anywhere North of the Mason Dixon line it just is not the same. Then in comes @sierraone so one of these Texicans comments that well now at least I'm not on my own anymore amoungst Texans... Yea right, he's from Florida! What good is that doing me?! That's kind of like a Texan without a hat

Needless to say I had to drink my bud light quietly and after about ten minutes they all quieted down a bit so I finally got the chance to ask the question burning in my mind.....

"What the hell is chicken fried steak and is it chicken or is it steak?"

.... Needless to say it was good to finally get to dinner and sit beside a very large Afrikaner and talk some common sense elephant hunting... And to eat some regular steak!

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Well Bob, now there's nothing better than fresh walleye out of the frying pan. But having been to Mpls a number of times, I've yet to figure out what Viking food is.

Yea Royal it was a good time but for once the North just had to raise the white flag.......

PHOENIX PHIL said:

Well Bob, now there's nothing better than fresh walleye out of the frying pan. But having been to Mpls a number of times, I've yet to figure out what Viking food is.

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Phil that would be lutefisk! Made from fish... But not walleye.

You need to get up to Leach lake for the annual eelpout festival! http://www.eelpoutfestival.com/photo-gallery/

ActionBob said:

Phil that would be lutefisk! Made from fish... But not walleye.

You need to get up to Leach lake for the annual eelpout festival! http://www.eelpoutfestival.com/photo-gallery/

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Lutefisk.....big pass my friend, BIG pass.

Yea butt...... That is not all that is at the lutefisk festival.

Definitely not Lutefisk, but yes thread drift guilty!

I was in SA about 4 months ago and spent some time seeing these genetic hybrid animals in person. I was enjoying this thread.
I don't understand it good enough to give an idea but I did just see this on one of the price lists so it looks like it isn't all just breeding some people most think there are people out there that are willing to shoot a ram of trophy quality instead of just have it breed unless they have taken a bunch of semen from it first????



I think these are US dollars

ActionBob said:

Yea I really stepped in it when I got tied in with all you Southerners.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but there I was with in Dallas with Nancy and Royal graciously offering to drive to the AH dinner but we have to stop off for drinks first. So we are sitting with @Buff-Buster and his wife and daughter and the HartzView crew is there as well... They are all talking about Texas and Southwest food and carrying on about that damned Yankee food like I'm not even there! Going all on about their "chicken fried steak" and how anywhere North of the Mason Dixon line it just is not the same. Then in comes @sierraone so one of these Texicans comments that well now at least I'm not on my own anymore amoungst Texans... Yea right, he's from Florida! What good is that doing me?! That's kind of like a Texan without a hat

Needless to say I had to drink my bud light quietly and after about ten minutes they all quieted down a bit so I finally got the chance to ask the question burning in my mind.....

"What the hell is chicken fried steak and is it chicken or is it steak?"

.... Needless to say it was good to finally get to dinner and sit beside a very large Afrikaner and talk some common sense elephant hunting... And to eat some regular steak!

Click to expand...

Have been called many things, but never a Texan without a hat!

Actionbob with ya there bacon and eggs!

I think some of the South Africans are unaware of what happened right here in Texas I remember flying out with clients to view breeder bucks which caried price tags of 55 - 150 USD, everyone started breeding white tail.

If you had 400 acres or 40 000 you pitched a pen got a breeder buck, 15 - 20 does and away you went, 4 years later you were sitting on 4 - 5 pens.

The market got flooded and those very bucks are selling for 8 - 15k today. Does were in moderate cases $8900 those does today are $2000, point is markets flood and the breeder market at its current growth rate in SA will outgrow itself.

What makes it tricky is our various different species that are suffering (habitat loss) due to extensive, intensive pen system being erected at this rate 10 years of the current system will be to the detriment of various other species this is the reality we are confronted with.

With that being said I honestly (mathematically) can not see it grow at the current rate for 10 years, I believe we will see a massive change in the next year to two and a complete turn around in three.

The breeding industry will not sink the hunting industry, it is going to hurt some individuals yes, and others will survive.

furthermore, I can not agree less with those requesting that game ranching should be listed by government under agriculture (and be removed from biodiversity) a sit will create a homogenized environment/habitat which inturn will also be to the detriment of our biodiversity.

My best

Jaco I think you sum it up pretty well... no way can those prices hold without a real end user market supporting it. The faster and higher it goes, the harder it will crash and the farther it will fall.

Good businessmen will keep their primary business in mind and tended to.

I cannot tell you in a public forum how much money I have left on the table by not participating in the high run-ups in my industry... But I locked in a reasonable profit and weathered the ensuing financial storms.... I did not participate in the lows either. Sometimes slow and steady actually ends up being the fastest.... And wins the race.

Jaco thanks for all your input, at the end of the day I can't see any sense made by breeding color mutated animals.
The sad part of it is that not only Impala and Wildebeest are being bred.
If you look at the species being bred it is crazy.

There is however a place for breeding
28" Impala
60"+ Kudu
45" + Buffalo
50" + Sable
18"+ Bushbuck
32" Blue Wildebeest
35" Waterbuck
30"+ Nyala
These are all animals that can be bred to increase and improve the gene pools.
However as it is, taking an animal out of it's natural environment to breed with a aliens species can and will be devastating at some point.

My main argument is that even farmers who used to do cattle farming only and had a small herd of Impala, Wildebeest and Kudu on the farm are jumping on the band wagon to breed hybrids/aliens.
These guys tend to forget that there was a time when game capturing teams offered the less than a 3rd of what the hunters paid.

I still believe that should one start a breeding with NATURAL GAME SPECIES you will survive and make a good amount of income from that.

Bossie and Jaco;
I booked a hunt with a fellow who has a very large amount of buffalo. Many outstanding... He showed me a picture of a fairly young bull, I think it was 46"... And he showed me some pictures of some incredible cows.

He told me I would need to be happy with an old bull of 40" or less as he plans to not shoot anything over 40" for the next 3 years and to take out the older and smaller buffalo.

I thought that sounded like a place I wanted to hunt! An old hard bossed bull sounds just dandy to me!

And I might have to go back in three years for a real whopper!

Seems to be a very level headed operator with a sound plan for a long and great future based on sound management and his core business of hosting hunters.

ActionBob said:

At those prices why would you not just go to Africa to hunt a Kudu in it's natural environment?

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I agree totally. Personally that's what I do. But I guess there are those that would rather do it here. Beats me?

lbgsafaris said:

Jaco thanks for all your input, at the end of the day I can't see any sense made by breeding color mutated animals.
The sad part of it is that not only Impala and Wildebeest are being bred.
If you look at the species being bred it is crazy.

There is however a place for breeding
28" Impala
60"+ Kudu
45" + Buffalo
50" + Sable
18"+ Bushbuck
32" Blue Wildebeest
35" Waterbuck
30"+ Nyala
These are all animals that can be bred to increase and improve the gene pools.
However as it is, taking an animal out of it's natural environment to breed with a aliens species can and will be devastating at some point.

My main argument is that even farmers who used to do cattle farming only and had a small herd of Impala, Wildebeest and Kudu on the farm are jumping on the band wagon to breed hybrids/aliens.
These guys tend to forget that there was a time when game capturing teams offered the less than a 3rd of what the hunters paid.

I still believe that should one start a breeding with NATURAL GAME SPECIES you will survive and make a good amount of income from that.

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Bossie / Jaco + 1

Yes, Unfortunatly this is the breeders 'price possession' and he will not breed them in large camps, but smaller ones. The ones that is nearer to his house drinking from a lit waterhole.

He doesn't want to put his animals at risk, meaning he want to fed them the best food, keep jackal away, keep warthog out by cementing the fence in, try to kill all snakes in the area, spray for ticks and other pest all for the 'bigger and better gene'...but what actual happens is that his animals doesn't have a natural / proper immune system. THEY WIL NEVER SURVIVE OUT IN THE WILD on their own.

This is a bubble effect, NOT sustainable and doesn't have and end user...someone is going to sit with the sh@t when it backfires!!

It will close down some outfitters, but the majority outfitters will have a plan to survive...

I have many 'red / common' Impala which i will keep and sell at a profit someday...hahaha

lbgsafaris said:

This question might have been asked before but I would like to hear some comment from our Outfitters in SA.

The game breeding situation in South Africa seems to spin everything out of control.
How are you affected by this, I am loosing the one concession after the other, land owners are calling me and telling me they are not going to hunt this year as they have decided to sell live game to the capturing companies.
What is happening in your area.
Things are out of control.

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Bosman,

Yes, it does