A little food for thought - Pricing on African Hunting Safaris

Well this has been an interesting thread. But it has strayed a bit and I can't help but wonder if we have had what a friend of mine likes to say, a Loss of Big Picture Accident. I don't care whether a guy charges $250 or $400 per day. Every person who runs a business is in business to make money or they won't be in business for long no matter what they may charge for their services/products.

But how much money does the typical RSA PG Safari company make? Really, I haven't a clue. But I can do some math with some reasonable assumptions and come up with I think a reasonable number. So I put together a small spreadsheet using these assumptions. Again these are ASSUMPTIONS of numbers and have nothing to do with real numbers for HartzView Safaris. While my affiliation with Jacques should be well known to most here, I do not have access to the books so if my numbers somehow were to be somewhat reflective of the HV biz, it's purely accidental.

Key parameters are 30 hunting weeks per year assuming $20K in revenue per week. Revenue being the total charged, daily rates and trophy fees. The number of weeks and/or the revenue per week may go up or down some, but I'd bet not by much. I then assumed on any given week that 50% of the revenue taken in covered the daily costs associated with the hunt. These costs are just for things like food, fuel, employee costs, etc. And then I tried to come up with some reasonable cost numbers for everything from marketing to equipment to taxes. Those numbers are really a crapshoot, but I don't think are completely out of line. By the time you subtract all those costs from the original $600K revenue, this fictional business makes about $82K a year. But no business that is growing just sits still, there are other costs associated with growing the business which I've not accounted for.

I know this number is not real, it could go either up or down. But I think it puts the big picture back into focus.

Now consider the amount of time the average outfitter/PH puts in per day during hunting season, what from 6am till 9pm at night. Consider how many days of that schedule the outfitter/PH may do in a row with not a single day off. Consider that during that time, the outfitter/PH is away from his family, not able to handle the daily issues that we confront from the leaky faucet, the sick kid who needs to go to the doctor to whatever personal issues arise. But then there's the time off from hunting season right? Wrong, just about the time the season is over, there's going to be this giant list of things that have to be dealt with and in a fairly short order of time. And then of course there's marketing season from early January and into February. I love going to DSC and SCI, it's a great time. But I can tell you that after standing in the booth all day and everyday, that by the end of each show I'm tired and ready to go home, and I do just that. The outfitter/PH is on his way to some new strange bed and doing smaller get togethers and shows. And then when that's over, it's back home with a new season just around the corner.

I'm not asking any of you to shed a tear or feel sorry for these guys, they knew the gig when they signed up for it. Or at least learned the ropes early in their chosen career. But the point of this long winded diatribe is that from my point of view, the outfitters/PH's earn every freaking last Rand they put in their pocket. I don't care whether it's Chris charging $400 for a daily rate or Pieter charging $250/day and compensating for the difference with his biltong business. And either way, for these guys to be in business they must not only be making money, they must be making enough to warrant the immense amount of work it takes to run a safari business.

Furthermore, assuming a reputable outfit, whether it be the most expensive outfitter or the cheapest, an RSA PG hunt is still by far the biggest bang for the buck a hunter can get for his dollar.
 

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Phil I get it, figures change, it is by no means the money making pie in the sky many make it out to be.

I hope it puts it into perspective for guys that are unsure.

My best always
 
On a side note and this is only the way I see it. If you are paying 2000$+ for a Kudu in Limpopo and 1200$ for a EC Kudu on avarage, you are paying per inch. Call a spade a spade. You will expect a better sized trophy in Limpopo (53"+) than the one in the EC (47"+) anyone that wants a 60" bull knows they dont come cheap either.

I agree with this, to an extent. What I would say though is that I'm paying for a better chance at a larger animal in Limpopo. And for this, I'm willing to pay in advance for that chance.

What I personally don't like is during the actual hunting and the thought of sneaking up on two bulls and have the PH whisper in my ear "the one on the right is the biggest Kudu I've ever seen, he will cost you an extra $1500."

Again though, just a personal preference. I have no issue with true pay by the inch, it just isn't for me. My first Kudu, God willing, will be in the EC. That being said, I fully intend to hunt another one in Limpopo some day and I know that one will cost me more.
 
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Has anyone actually done a 400$+ a day hunt in SA and then also a 270-300$ a day hunt? Would be interesting to see how you precieved the differance in service, nice to have's and quality of the hunting and meals etc at the lodge.
I have hunted with both clients paying in the upper bracket and the lower bracket, there was a substantial differance in a few ways. This is purely for PG.

I can also say that I have hunted the same area with clients paying both rates, but I also hunted exclusive big $ areas with clients paying high rates and looking for some above good trophy Kudu for the EC.
Hell I once hunted a very,very exclusive area with a 5 star lodge, we hunted for a big Kudu for 3 days and got lucky on the 3rd morning. It was early enough to have breakfast at the lodge, we were the only ones in camo. Anyway turns out breakfast was 60$ a pop, nice break from the lunch box, but I had some explaining to do to the Outfitter:D
This happend to be the same day the 100$ a day camera man (a worker on the farm that happend to be promoted to camera operator) decided to sleep late and I left without him;) Kudu dont carry watches.

Cant agree more with Chris,Jaco and Pieter, that a good tracker and skinner are worth much more than avarage wage per day. Unfortunatelly most clients only understand this once the trophy is against the wall, there is a reason Taxidermist have spare capes.

I have done a high end hunt, and yes, the experience is different. First of all I have to say it was a very special deal, a friend of mine who is a booking agent offered me an end of season (end of September) package to hunt a buffalo at an excellent price.

The hunt took place in MKuze Falls Private Game Reserve, it is a huge area, one the few in SA where you have the Big 5 plus croc and rhino, and that is an experience in itself, I was able to see all these animals up close, even saw a leopard hunting nyala at midday.
My friend came on the trip, as he had to discuss business with the outfitter, and I was the only hunter at the lodge.

All the facilities were 5 star, the service excellent, and the food outstanding. PH a very nice guy and very professional, as well as the tracker. The hunt was hard, took us four days to get the right buff, but successful.

It was a unique experience, which I wish I could afford regularly, but that is not the case, so I stick with the mid range priced hunts.
 
Again let me make it clear.I am not saying anyone is overpriced or does not earn what they make.You can do charts and guess everything you want to.I do not want to see anyone books or tell them they charge to much.

My point is I am sick of guys looking down on a new guys just starting or guys selling hunts for less then other feel is good.Sick of it is cheaper for a reason your not getting the same as this guy because your paying less.

Money is always a touchy subject but it make this world go around.Find your market do as you will with it.But dont feel like your better then anyone else because you charge more.It does not mean your a better at anything because you charge more.

I hope everyone here makes all the money they want I just want choices and not be told a lower priced hunt is a bad one.Dont want to see guys trying to scare new guys away with all the low price BS that get thrown around.
 
Understood, as mentioned earlier, I am sure the reputable guys will ignore my statement but in 15 years in this industry I have seen that hunts priced in the silly range, are the ones ending in disaster, they have proven it time and time again. Why else would I mention it?

In the same breath I and many outfitters are sick of those guys causing and creating bad publicity in our industry as the spill over effect and distrust are felt by us, it is sickening to me that when these hunts are exposed for what they are we/I feel responsible and that I had to compete with such utter hog wash and jokers.
In those cases I do feel superior yes.

It is brought up for a reason, I don't just say it because I have nothing else to do.
There is no reason to use scare tactics, this industry will scare anyone sooner rather than later.

For those who this applies to, I hope they wake up, for those who know the quality of they're service and or products, and find themselves on the extreme spectrum of pricing, we will talk again in 5 years and believe me sanity shall prevail.

My best always
 
Thank Phil for a simple spread sheet with projected numbers. You have outlined some simple heading that would have many sub headings for efficient tracking of expenses. Many persons in business have to deal with weekly, by-weekly, monthly and yearly spreadsheets. Managers and business owners are responsible for timely tracking of expenditures to be able to stay in the business world. And some business have to do this on a daily basis.

That is why i like doing a cost comparative spread sheet of many different operations to come up with a estimated cost. It all comes together for a total package price. I guess the operations that i look at, have been around for many years and have solid reputations. Maybe i am just picky and do many checks prior to talking with a PH and or booking a hunt.

What rubs me the wrong way, is a tentative client, that (what i call a weasel) by price bidding one or more PH or outfitter against each another. The old company X will give me this what will company Y or Z do for me and then do it all over again, again.

I do believe Chris that you did touch a open nerve on BillC., I am not sure what he is trying to gain from his many postings.
 
James, very true, I have received spread sheets in the past with comparisons of 4 companies and have been requested to match the cheapest to gain the hunt/client.

My reply is usually quite simple, I hope you have an awesome experience, if not I'll probably book you next year... :)

My best always
 
Understood, as mentioned earlier, I am sure the reputable guys will ignore my statement but in 15 years in this industry I have seen that hunts priced in the silly range, are the ones ending in disaster, they have proven it time and time again. Why else would I mention it?

Jaco I hear you! Each year we have new faces at the hunting show here offering unbelievable deals. Some of my current clients booked and came home crying, just to rebook with me the following year. Funny you also only see these guys at the show once or maybe twice. They dont last. We had a joker here 2 years ago that offerd 7 days hunting at 1600$, no problem, but he included the flight from Europe. Needless to say he no longer has hunters coming from here;)

"Goedkoop is duur koop"
 
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I do believe Chris that you did touch a open nerve on BillC., I am not sure what he is trying to gain from his many postings.

Not at all james.He used a quote of mine from the past and I answered it with what I thought.Then as people chat I give my feeling is all. For those that really know me they all know some comment on a website does not get at me in anyway.Though I really do like when the truth get outs so new guys who come here may see that you dont need to go broke to go on a hunt.

Some guys try the bidding things other just price hunts with many places and pick what is best.I do believe james that is one thing you try to say about me before.Have never told another outfitter what someone else quoted me to get a better price.That is not how i work and way smart then that.

Just like some guys like spread sheets but others may just use common sense to get to the point they want.Each guy may have a different background and uses what is best for him.For me my gut feeling will tell me way more then any spread sheet.
 
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Good reply Jaco, you as the business owner have the right to decide what you charge. There have been many excellent points brought out from everyone. I didn't see anyone answer Billc's question on if the exchange rate went the other way like 18 to 1 would the outfiitter refund, the only talk has been if the exchange rate dropped. Hunt Hard safaris asked if anyone had done a $400 as opposed to less expensive hunts, which I have personally done. I hunted the EC at 400 a day and will say of 5 hunts in SA it was my worst, I hunted the NW the next year at $100 a day and it was way better, so I would not be a good one to ask . I realize that this one example doesn't mean this is the norm.
 
Good reply Jaco, you as the business owner have the right to decide what you charge. There have been many excellent points brought out from everyone. I didn't see anyone answer Billc's question on if the exchange rate went the other way like 18 to 1 would the outfiitter refund, the only talk has been if the exchange rate dropped. Hunt Hard safaris asked if anyone had done a $400 as opposed to less expensive hunts, which I have personally done. I hunted the EC at 400 a day and will say of 5 hunts in SA it was my worst, I hunted the NW the next year at $100 a day and it was way better, so I would not be a good one to ask . I realize that this one example doesn't mean this is the norm.

Speaking for myself only, I would seriously doubt that a refund would be given for a sudden surge in the dollar just as likely as no more money would asked for by most outfitters by a sudden drop. The most likely scenario is that prices may remain flat from year to year by the increased dollar strength.

But that is a two edged sword. Remember that the price of the product that really makes the world go around, which is oil, is priced on the world markets in dollars. And of course fuel costs are a big part of the cost of a safari. So a weakening Rand requires more of them to buy oil which requires $$$. Now of course that is at least somewhat if not completely offset by the plunge in oil prices. Not sure exactly how that works out as I'm not aware of how much or even if fuel costs have come down in Africa.
 
Jeff if you would have just did that post early I could save on some typing.Your point is perfect.
quote -I realize that this one example doesn't mean this is the norm.

Maybe my lower cost hunt are not the norm of what equals a great hunt for all.But my hunts shows it can be done with good research and planning. That is the main point I have been trying to drive home for guys looking to go but think they can not afford to go and hunt what they want.

I really dont care who charges what or what anyone makes.I want other hunter to know they can do africa cheaper then they may think.
 
Again let me make it clear.I am not saying anyone is overpriced or does not earn what they make.You can do charts and guess everything you want to.I do not want to see anyone books or tell them they charge to much.

My point is I am sick of guys looking down on a new guys just starting or guys selling hunts for less then other feel is good.Sick of it is cheaper for a reason your not getting the same as this guy because your paying less.

Money is always a touchy subject but it make this world go around.Find your market do as you will with it.But dont feel like your better then anyone else because you charge more.It does not mean your a better at anything because you charge more.

I hope everyone here makes all the money they want I just want choices and not be told a lower priced hunt is a bad one.Dont want to see guys trying to scare new guys away with all the low price BS that get thrown around.

Understood and I don't disagree, even have my own experience with that. Years ago when I had a female black Labrador from phenomenal blood lines who also had AKC Hunt Test titles, I had her bred to a Field Champion yellow Lab. Since I was a newbie in that world, I priced my pups a bit less, and some actually said substantially so, than market price. I actually had prospective buyers ask me first thing in the conversation why I was selling the pups so cheap. I explained my perspective as a new guy, some accepted it and some gave me the "uh huh" and that was the end of it. I even had at least one person tell me I would sell my pups faster if I priced them higher! Go figure.

But as has been seen and talked about numerous times, there are so many bad reports that start with, "So I booked this amazing deal....." And we're not just talking about reports of poor hunting or service, we're also talking about flat out scams here. Now I know you know how to do your research, but not everyone is that smart, and others are a bit too trusting. But even if you are, you may not know where to turn. My first safari was nearly a disaster, not because I didn't do some research, I just didn't do it in the right places, didn't know the right people, didn't know what to look out for. "The amazing deal" that I booked was the first flag that I should have paid attention to.

Is it fair to immediately look suspect at a great deal with a suspicious eye and a skeptical attitude? Perhaps not, but it is prudent.
 
Phil I have had that happen with my work.Lost jobs because I was to cheap and people thought they would not get the same quality.It does happen and how funny is it you could have sold something faster if you charged more.

I do believe there is deals out there to good to be true.Put paying 250 for day fees and the price list I had was not that.Yeah some guy trys to tell me he will give me a 7 day hunt in the limpo and I will hunt a kudu,eland,impala,blue wildbeast and warthog and it is all for 4000 I am running away as fast as I can.

I do think that problem was alot worse say 10 years ago when you had outftters starting up each day.Then along came new lawsand outfitters policeng themselves more.PLus the wonderful internet that gets the word out 100 times faster then years ago.I am sure there is still scams and people over selling.
 
 

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Marius, I love it we always good to get some humour in!
 
Ok.... First we have "pink" safaris... Now we have the "Village People" being brought into the game...

Wonder what's next?

Funny post Marius!
 
Very funny marius just hate that I had just removed that picture out of my mind and then dam in shows back up. LOL Its good to have fun like that though and laugh at oneself sometimes.I myself remember all the fun stuff we have done on safaris as much as the animals I have taken

Now chris which would be better some pink tees showing up or some guys wearing those blue shirts.

I myself feel more manly wearing my pink tee then those shorts for sure.I just dont have the legs to pull off the shorts.
 
It's all that friggin' rugby they play
 

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