What is it like owning a game ranch in South Africa?

PHSC _Petrus said:

look if i could get 30 pure Zambian Sable in SA i would smile all the way. Let me find out what the legal way is of bringing them in and what the other ways are....
There are many farms in SA with Zambian blood on their farms so they had to get them in some way or another.

So if i can get it done where would i load them? and what would you expect out of the deal?

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petrus unfortunately we cant export live sable from zambia due to a law brought in last year or year before which has screwed us, as we had exported to moz prior to the law being brought in, and means there are only internal sales which arent many.......and the sa govnt depts wont give import licenses due to worries on diseases. the zambian sable down there were brought in before the restrictions were put in place , but there are rumours of them illegaly departing zambia for sa........also i think too many poweful people in sa with vested interests to allow more zambian stock in. i have a friend who manages one of the top breeding ranches and he has looked into it and legally its a no go..........

spike.t said:

petrus unfortunately we cant export live sable from zambia due to a law brought in last year or year before which has screwed us, as we had exported to moz prior to the law being brought in, and means there are only internal sales which arent many.......and the sa govnt depts wont give import licenses due to worries on diseases. the zambian sable down there were brought in before the restrictions were put in place , but there are rumours of them illegaly departing zambia for sa........also i think too many poweful people in sa with vested interests to allow more zambian stock in. i have a friend who manages one of the top breeding ranches and he has looked into it and legally its a no go..........

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They still do it! you just need to know the right people in government and they will make it happen.....but for me...thats not the way i roll so i guess its just one of those things.

yup do it the correct way or not at all. i was at the pilanesberg auction in may and patsy was at one in the limpopo in oct, and i know my jaw was on the floor at the prices being paid for zambian sable............we get approx usd$3,500 to $5,000 for most live sales in zambia..........kinda depressing or what! compared to what those same sable would go for in sa one breeder asked my friend what was wrong with me, and he told him we had 130 odd sable in zambia and what we could get for them. i told him he could have the lot for R30,000,000.00 but up to him to get them to sa....you should have seen the look on his face as his brain went into overload with the calculations!!!

I'd love to try and do this some day, in some way. The thought of fractional ownership, or some type of limited partnership is interesting to me personally because like others have said I can't afford a ranch on my own!!!! Nor am I willing to take that kind of risk, especially in a foreign country. I would be willing to lose some, but not the amount it would take to fund an entire ranch that I got just be completely taken away one day. Yikes!!!!

I have the same fear with game breeding. To me it is a speculative market and in the end a lot more people will lose money than make it and I'm just not willing to take that risk, personally.

Royal27 said:

I'd love to try and do this some day, in some way. The thought of fractional ownership, or some type of limited partnership is interesting to me personally because like others have said I can't afford a ranch on my own!!!! Nor am I willing to take that kind of risk, especially in a foreign country. I would be willing to lose some, but not the amount it would take to fund an entire ranch that I got just be completely taken away one day. Yikes!!!!

I have the same fear with game breeding. To me it is a speculative market and in the end a lot more people will lose money than make it and I'm just not willing to take that risk, personally.

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We have a couple of Golden Wildebees and some Sables at this stage, must mention that we got them about 3 years ago which was the best time to buy and we have been smiling all the way with the way the auctions are going at this stage. The way i see it and touch wood saying this......if you buy at the right price and hold on to it and let them breed you will not loose out!

Example say you buy 10 sable at R300k each you would have spent R3mil
let them breed and if you take a 50% (which is less than norm) production you will have 15 of them in year 2
20 in year 3
30 in year 4
50 in year 5
Note that the calves are sexually mature at 24 months and you will get some bulls in between.

so if the price stays the same you will have R15mil worth of Sable in 5 years (please don't take these calculations to literal as there are allot of other variables but it gives you a good estemate)

so say the price halves in the 5 years and you can only sell them for R150 k each you will still make money.
But with the way things are going now in SA the price just seems to climb every year so if the price increases to say R500k each which in my opinion will happen in the next year you have increased your investment from R3mil to R25mil in 5 years

With all of this said breeding of Exclusive Game is a full time Job and you need to pay close attention to your heard.

^^^

"IF" being the key word here!!! If you are being conservative and not continuing to buy more as the market goes up and up then I commend you. In my opinion, that is where people will lose on this deal!

I don't buy individual stocks in the market anymore for this very same reason. I've proven to myself that I don't do it very well, so I leave that to the experts and stick with mutual funds, and relatively boring ones at that!

Please don't take this as my putting down what you are doing. I'm not. I admire it!!! I just know my personal limitations. Perhaps I can buy 25% of a Sable from you? Within four years I would have a whole one!!!! I'm back to my silent/limited partnership poimt, aren't I????

spike.t said:

yup do it the correct way or not at all. i was at the pilanesberg auction in may and patsy was at one in the limpopo in oct, and i know my jaw was on the floor at the prices being paid for zambian sable............we get approx usd$3,500 to $5,000 for most live sales in zambia..........kinda depressing or what! compared to what those same sable would go for in sa one breeder asked my friend what was wrong with me, and he told him we had 130 odd sable in zambia and what we could get for them. i told him he could have the lot for R30,000,000.00 but up to him to get them to sa....you should have seen the look on his face as his brain went into overload with the calculations!!!

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Hi Mike, I'm no expert regarding the breading of Sable but I really think that these SA prices will start dropping in the near future. Apart from those breeders and buyers looking for the next 50 inch monster, I cant see it going any other way... Again, only my opinion.

I can see Mike's point of view, he would love to capitalize when the market is high, it would be great for him and SA would get some great genetics. I also agree Justin the market to me can't keep climbing so fast without some adjustment.

Think of the US housing market.

I would love to invest as well if I was comfortable with the risk.... But it would take a lot of research and I'm not ready to get into that... Especially after seeing what happened in Zimbabwe! I don't see those governments as trustworthy enough.

As for investing in game animals, back to the comments about timing. Now may not be the time. I did buy 3 houses in 2005 and 8 more after the crash. Guess which ones worked out best......

On the other hand I am buying cattle in a high market because I can turn a profit on them right now.... But the ones I bout over a year ago are way more profitable.

If you are investing in a business that you know and understand completely and can cash flow short term, you should do it. But if you are speculating in a market you are not intricately knowledgeable in, better go in cautiously and budget for a wide margin of error.

I do think a knowledgeable and trustworthy local partner makes sense. But to build that trust takes time.

ActionBob, I have many family members living in different corners of the world as a result of Zim's recent history. Saying this, I really don't think SA will go the same way. We have "common sense" (least common of them all) to make the same mistakes... that's what I'm praying for in any case.

Arc Africa Hunting Safaris said:

Hi Mike, I'm no expert regarding the breading of Sable but I really think that these SA prices will start dropping in the near future. Apart from those breeders and buyers looking for the next 50 inch monster, I cant see it going any other way... Again, only my opinion.

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maybe justin but there are quite a lot of new people who have a small ranch for the fun of it and have spare cash, and after talking to my friend he thinks these newcomers will sustain the market for a bit yet, not many years but 4 to 5 .........and as eric said would just be nice to be able to make some loot in a buoyant market thats not too far away

spike.t said:

yup do it the correct way or not at all. i was at the pilanesberg auction in may and patsy was at one in the limpopo in oct, and i know my jaw was on the floor at the prices being paid for zambian sable............we get approx usd$3,500 to $5,000 for most live sales in zambia..........kinda depressing or what! compared to what those same sable would go for in sa one breeder asked my friend what was wrong with me, and he told him we had 130 odd sable in zambia and what we could get for them. i told him he could have the lot for R30,000,000.00 but up to him to get them to sa....you should have seen the look on his face as his brain went into overload with the calculations!!!

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Mike,

Pretty big price discrepancy between the countries. Are there rules about selling semen straws?

I don't know anything about game breeding, but I have been around long enough to see a few market cycles. It seems that game breeding has been in a bull market for awhile. Good luck to all on your timing. At some point it will be a hunters market.

All the best.

Wheels said:

Mike,

Pretty big price discrepancy between the countries. Are there rules about selling semen straws?.

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not sure we have thought about it but i am not sure that enough research has been done on it for sable as to when is best time to try impregnate, and you have to dart them each time with the stress etc involved not like i presume with cattle where you can herd them through a crush one by one and its fairly easy.......

Arc Africa Hunting Safaris said:

ActionBob, I have many family members living in different corners of the world as a result of Zim's recent history. Saying this, I really don't think SA will go the same way. We have "common sense" (least common of them all) to make the same mistakes... that's what I'm praying for in any case.

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Never say...never!!!

spike.t said:

not sure we have thought about it but i am not sure that enough research has been done on it for sable as to when is best time to try impregnate, and you have to dart them each time with the stress etc involved not like i presume with cattle where you can herd them through a crush one by one and its fairly easy.......

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Have been around a couple of quarter horse stud farms (semen collecting). Everything runs pretty smoothly. The stallions certainly seem to enjoy the process.

I can see where domesticated animals would certainly be easier to work with than your sable.

All the best.

We do all AI breeding on our dairies and it is just a daily routine. But these are domestic dairy cows, even the beef breeds need better/tighter handling facilities. I have no idea how to control wild animals with big horns?

To the un-initiated, don't laugh too much but I have often just walked up to a cow in an alley and AI'ed her right there. They become pretty friendly when in a strong heat.

We have also done super ovulation and collection/transfer of embryos. That might actually be more practical if you have to sedate the critters anyway. You could do that with natural breeding of the doner so would not need to collect semen.... Easier on the male side but much tougher on the female side.

Is it practical to "tame" a few female sable?

Bushwack said:

Never say...never!!!

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True but one can only hope!

ActionBob said:

To the un-initiated, don't laugh too much but I have often just walked up to a cow in an alley and AI'ed her right there. They become pretty friendly when in a strong heat.

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Sorry, I laughed really hard!

PHSC _Petrus said:

They still do it! you just need to know the right people in government and they will make it happen.....but for me...thats not the way i roll so i guess its just one of those things.

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Or if you could fly a Dakota 3:00 am in the morning and keep it under the radar, I live 15 km from an area where it happens regularly

lbgsafaris said:

Or if you could fly a Dakota 3:00 am in the morning and keep it under the radar, I live 15 km from an area where it happens regularly

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nah screw a dakota!! what about the russian boys sitting in the DRC with the BIG russian transport planes that do anything if you can pay????