Big Bore Addiction Group

So, to those of you who have a .375 or, even a 9.3, welcome to The Big Bore Addiction Group.

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the 375's are welcome as full members here but the 9.3's come in as potential future members. as far as im concerned the 9.3mm is a medium bore caliber for non-dangerous game. this is nothing against the 9.3mm, its just not a big bore caliber. the 375's makes it because, while it doesnt quite have the .400"+ bore diameter it makes up for it by generating 4000+ ft/lb of muzzle energy. the 375 is the big bore made for "long range" with higher velocities and better BC then other big bore guns. again, i have nothing against the 9.3mm and would happily hunt anything with it shy of DG.

-matt

Welcome Richeb, your 416 ruger is a big bore (40 cal and up) and the 375 is a medium bore (338-375) and that is the starter caliber for most of us big bore folk. The the 30 cal on down a little stuff that is very useful Just remember these words Hello my name is ___________ and I have a problem, my 416 isn't quite enough and the guys at my local shop has a nice 458 that keeps singing a sirens song. We will all look forward to your posts and pics of new toys that help with your addiction. You are in good company

matt85 said:

you could buy a 416 Remington mag and simply convert your 375 H&H brass to 416 RM brass.

then when the 416 isnt big enough any more, you can get a 458 Lott and convert your 416 RM brass to 458 Lott brass!

you could even save money by having your 375 H&H rebarreled to 416 RM and then later rebarreled again to 458 Lott.

i dont have a (twitch) problem (twitch twitch) i swear!

-matt

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Did someone say Lott????

still waiting for the range report on that Lott of yours Royal27.

im personally going crazy waiting for my 505 Gibbs and 500/416 NE to get back. in fact im gonna send off another email asking about the 505 now.

-matt

matt85 said:

the 375's are welcome as full members here but the 9.3's come in as potential future members. as far as im concerned the 9.3mm is a medium bore caliber for non-dangerous game. this is nothing against the 9.3mm, its just not a big bore caliber. the 375's makes it because, while it doesnt quite have the .400"+ bore diameter it makes up for it by generating 4000+ ft/lb of muzzle energy. the 375 is the big bore made for "long range" with higher velocities and better BC then other big bore guns. again, i have nothing against the 9.3mm and would happily hunt anything with it shy of DG.

-matt

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Matt85,

You are right and I should not be inviting 9.3 types into your group.
That being said, I do not put much stock in muzzle energy and other mathematical equations.

But if you dig such equations, have a peep at the 9.3x64 Brenneke's muzzle energy.
The .375 H&H will always be my preference in this category of cartridges - "flat shooting with acceptable recoil yet legal for DG if needed cartridges" (AKA so called multi-purpose cartridges).

The reason is due to ammunition availability and also, I get the impression that some countries in Africa possibly do not permit any 9.3 for DG.

That being said, all you 9.3 owners are on the path to destruction but not quite there yet (still not too late to quit now, before your family has to do an intervention).

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

i stand corrected, doing a bit of quick research it appears the 9.3x64 brenneke is plenty suitable for DG. according to the wiki it will push a 293gr bullet at 2580fps. if this is true then it will easily get the job done.

-matt

I know the 9.3x64 Brenneke, I have used it, it was My Rifle... snif ... I have left it for "the" .375 H&H ... cause only 2 manufacturers all over the world ...
Very great ammo .. indeed!! Somewhere .. better than the .375 H&H ... but a marketing pb ... after WWII ... too late.
And now, I have left .375 H&H for .416RM ... hum .. is it wise ? YES.
Next step , I'm not yet too old .. in my mind .., something with ... Lott ...
Have you said Lott ?

Don't feel bad, I've been told my 500 Jeffery is just a fat medium bore, and that real big bores start 0.600 ...

colorado, im pretty sure that only applies to black powder. any one who calls the 500 jeffery or bigger yet the 577 NE a medium bore is sorely mistaken.

with time and technology projectiles have gotten smaller and more effective. there was a time when nothing smaller then an 8 bore would have been considered suitable for DG. but then you were firing a patched round ball over a large amount of black powder. these days a 500gr .474" bullet from a 470 NE will perform circles around the old 2-8 bore black powder guns. we even have cartridges for DG that would have been considered "small bore" back in the black powder days such as the 416 Rigby.

-matt

I took a big step in my addiction today, I was sitting at my desk, looking at some Searcy doubles for sale, my boss walked in and asked what I was looking at with glazed eyes. I told him I was thinking of selling my ass to buy the 500 NE on the screen. He promptly told me I wouldn't get enough money selling it to put enough diesel in my truck to get me to the range. I have to agree with him, it was a bad idea. He asked why I wanted the 500 instead of the 470.
"Because I have a good supply of ammo for the 500" I replied.
So you already have a 500?
"Nope, bought a bunch of A Square ammo a year or so ago"
Why did you buy ammo for a gun you don't own?
"Anticipation that I soon would, justification to buy one down the road"
You have a problem Cody, he snickers and walked out of my office.
I realized that I do have a problem:
I have foolishly spent to much money on food and clothing last year, could have missed a meal a day and own that double.

haha bullthrower338 you just made my day!

i hope you get your 500 NE some day!

i bought my 505 Gibbs as a less expensive alternative to the 500 NE. the 505 Gibbs is a ballistic twin to the 500 NE in its 600gr factory load (600gr at 2100fps) and will excede the 500 NE if hand loaded to higher pressures.

note: new Merkel doubles in 500 NE can be had for around $10k (dont buy used!)

-matt

matt85 said:

haha bullthrower338 you just made my day!

i hope you get your 500 NE some day!

i bought my 505 Gibbs as a less expensive alternative to the 500 NE. the 505 Gibbs is a ballistic twin to the 500 NE in its 600gr factory load (600gr at 2100fps) and will excede the 500 NE if hand loaded to higher pressures.

note: new Merkel doubles in 500 NE can be had for around $10k (dont buy used!)

-matt

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I have not ever compared the Gibbs and the NE side by side before! I have been thinking of ordering a Montana 505 though. Thanks for pointing that out, I acquired some A Square monolithic solids in 505 Gibbs when I got the NE ammo. I believe they are 525gr.
When you say don't buy used, are you referring to the Merkel? I've been looking at some fine Searcy doubles used in the 9-12k range. Would you be nervous on a used Searcy?

here is a link to the thread on my B. Searcy double: http://www.africahunting.com/threads/b-searcy-500-416-ne.16072/

here is a link to the thread on my Montana Rifle Co. 505 Gibbs: http://www.africahunting.com/threads/montana-rifle-company-dgr-505-gibbs-review.17055/

im not going to say Searcy doubles are bad rifles but if you have problems with the rifle it will take a LONG time for it to be fixed. I went threw a couple used double rifles and will strongly recommend you buy a new gun with a warranty from a large company (Merkel, Krieghoff, Blaser, Heym, etc). if you get a used gun with no problems then great, but if it has trouble it wont be worth what little you saved buying used.

I wasn't overly impressed with my Montana 505 when it showed up. however, they promptly took it back and promised to fix it quickly. Montana Rifle Co has had great customer service and has been generally quick to respond to my questions. I will update both threads as the situations progress.

as for comparing the 500 NE to the 505 Gibbs (factory loads):
505 Gibbs = 600gr .505" bullet at 2100fps (often loaded with a 525gr bullet at 2300fps)
500 NE 3" = 570gr .510" bullet at 2150fps
depending on the load you can even just directly copy the 500 NE load with the 505 Gibbs by using a 570gr .505" Swift A-frame at 2150fps. the Gibbs however can exceed the 500 NE with hand loading. I have load data that will propel a 600gr bullet at 2500fps from the 505 Gibbs but the more common hand load is 600gr at 2250fps.

another cartridge to consider is the 500 Jeffery. this cartridge fires a 570gr .510" bullet at 2300fps in its standard load. however loading it down or up is easily possible allowing you to load it down to 2150fps or up to 2500fps.

having said all that, there is still something to respect about a proper double rifle in 500 NE!

-matt

I fully understand the idea of getting a new rifle with warranty rather than take a chance on used to save less than the cost of any likely needed repair. That is a reasonable choice if it is a rifle for the range, and I understand that these are fired way more on paper than at animals. I do not have personal experience with the particular weapons in question so I cannot comment on whether for any particular brand the availability of a warranty is important in practical terms.

However, if one is contemplating actually hunting with the thing, I can't begin to understand choosing any weapon where the warranty is even taken into consideration. Reminds be of when I was in high school, miles up a creek in winter when my buddy started whacking at an obstructing branch with his paddle. "Stop, you're going to break the paddle". "Don't worry, I've got a dozen in my garage". "Have you noticed that we're in the middle of an icy creek not in your garage!!!!??"

I'm not saying that even the finest made mechanical object cannot/ will not break. But if I wouldn't buy a rifle used (assuming it was taken care of, not abused, not worn out, etc) I sure as hell wouldn't buy it new for use on dangerous game, or any other use where it actually matters if it works.

It is another story entirely if you are talking about a bespoke rifle, not off the shelf or the semi-customs like the Montana. If you are buying a bespoke rifle, then it is made to measure for you and of course new is required.

Thanks guys, I read the reports, hope you get your boomer back soon and Mr. Searcy lives up to all of the good things that I have heard about him! I was surprised to learn that his "entry level" rifle screws are not timed. There is a very elaborately engraved Searcy at 39k, I was amazed to see the screws timed in such a manner.



Very few things that I have ever purchased have I not found a flaw in, some so minor that it would only drive an analretentive gun crank would concern himself over. I for one consider a 10k-20k investment in a rifle as a significant investment, and I'm not being cheap, just that's a good chunk of money to drop and I would expect quality for my hard earned money. I once had a conversation with a local PD cop at the gun store, he wanted a cheap
back up gun. I explained to him that not only his life but the people that he may have to protect lives depend on his decision at the gun counter. He ended up buying a fine back up gun instead of the POS that he had intended. This is no different with a DG rifle IMO. We owe it to ourselves and the people standing next to us to have went as far as we can to have the right and most reliable equipment that we can afford. Also to train with it to a level of high proficiency. This is why I don't own a double yet, but the more I read on here and undoubtedly will ask some stupid questions about, will make my decision on which one I do buy an informed one.

So just where does one go to find a decent double gun? I want to look at double rifles, not wade through shotguns. And I want to be able to see prices.

Just sold an older youth model .22 that I've had for years to a friend whose boy is starting to shoot. Now I need a replacement, but I want something a little stronger. What do you guys think about a .450/400?

BTW - here is a picture of my CZ in 375 H&H. Haven't shot anything but paper and steel yet, but I'm hopeful.

ActionBob said:

So just where does one go to find a decent double gun? I want to look at double rifles, not wade through shotguns. And I want to be able to see prices.

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Look at www.gunsinternational.com also www.gunbroker.com

Jay Kelley said:

Just sold an older youth model .22 that I've had for years to a friend whose boy is starting to shoot. Now I need a replacement, but I want something a little stronger. What do you guys think about a .450/400?

BTW - here is a picture of my CZ in 375 H&H. Haven't shot anything but paper and steel yet, but I'm hopeful.

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I would love a .450/400! Go for it!

Jay Kelley said:

Just sold an older youth model .22 that I've had for years to a friend whose boy is starting to shoot. Now I need a replacement, but I want something a little stronger. What do you guys think about a .450/400?

BTW - here is a picture of my CZ in 375 H&H. Haven't shot anything but paper and steel yet, but I'm hopeful.

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The .450/400 is a very logical replacement for a .22 youth model. Why not?

That CZ is a workhorse. I love mine. If I could only have one rifle that would be it. I've shot animals in size from a grysbok to a hippo and it performed great on all.