Big Bore Addiction Group

Royal27 said:

This would explain why I now want a .458 Lott so badly. It is the fault of my .375 H&H.

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Come see me at DSC, you want the .458 B&M, trust me. I'll take you down to talk to Michael McCourry and we'll get you setup.

Phoenix Phil your like a drug dealer of the big bore world.

I just did a bit of reading on the 458 B&M and its not for me, but to each his own. I prefer a larger case capacity for more wiggle room when hand loading.

-matt

matt85 said:

Phoenix Phil your like a drug dealer of the big bore world.

I just did a bit of reading on the 458 B&M and its not for me, but to each his own. I prefer a larger case capacity for more wiggle room when hand loading.

-matt

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We fill them up matt. Can't get too much powder in those cases yet the velocity is there and I've yet to see any pressure signs. Want some more powder, move up to the 500MDM.

by wiggle room I wasn't referring to extra power. what I meant was the ability to use heavy for caliber mono-metal projectiles like the Barnes TSX, CEB safari solids, and North Forks FPS/CPS. Phil have you tried any of the heavy mono-metal bullets in your rifle yet?

-matt

I give up, what's a .458 B&M ?

(And, what does it do that the regular .458 Lott does not do ?)

Velo Dog, google is your friend or at least it was mine when I first heard of the 458 B&M.

here is their website: http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/458-B-M.html

-matt

PHOENIX PHIL said:

Come see me at DSC, you want the .458 B&M, trust me. I'll take you down to talk to Michael McCourry and we'll get you setup.

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I'm afraid that I will already own a Lott by thrn. You know how this addication stuff goes... And I'm definitely in the used gun market at this point. Those guys do some REALLY nice stuff though. I talked to them last year, after you sent me over to see your rifle come to think about it!!!

matt85 said:

by wiggle room I wasn't referring to extra power. what I meant was the ability to use heavy for caliber mono-metal projectiles like the Barnes TSX, CEB safari solids, and North Forks FPS/CPS. Phil have you tried any of the heavy mono-metal bullets in your rifle yet?

-matt

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Not sure why you would want to use a heavy for caliber mono as you end up with quite a long bullet which can introduce stability issues. My opinion is when shooting mono's you should if anything look to go slightly lower in weight to avoid the stability problems. With virtually 100% weight retention you're going to maintain much more momentum than your typical non-bonded lead bullet that loses roughly 1/2 its weight.

But to answer your question, my .458B&M has only seen CEB's thus far. I've shot the 260gr SOCOM bullet which chrono'd right at 2900fps and gave sub 1" group at 100 yards and just slightly larger at 200 yards.

I've also shot the 420gr Safari Raptor with sub 1" accuracy at 100 yards and it's 450gr Safari Solid brother with equal accuracy. The POI was about 1" or so apart, the solid being a bit higher and slightly right of where the Raptors printed. The Raptors chrono'd at about 2300-2350 fps as I recall.

I guess I could shoot heavier bullets, but from what I've read from field results I'm not sure why. The penetration distances the solids are giving virtually ensure a pass through on buffalo on broadside shots and quite likely from fore to aft or vice versa. And in a straight line.

All of my loads came straight from Michael's website, so really I didn't do the load dev't. I just copied his loads. Though I will say I started below his max loads to ensure that powder lot differences did not become a problem. In the end though, I'm using his max loads.

Velo Dog said:

I give up, what's a .458 B&M ?

(And, what does it do that the regular .458 Lott does not do ?)

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It does what the .458 Lott does, but in a smaller package and WSM length action. The rifles are much lighter with shorter barrels, making them much handier in tight quarters. With the design of the Accurate Innovations stock recoil is still manageable. I'm not at all a big recoil fan. I don't believe that I'm afraid of it. I managed to win a safari shooting contest with a .416 Rigby. I hated the recoil of that rifle. I can take my .458B&M however and drop 20 of the big rounds down range and I'm fine with it. The .416 Rigby with 400gr loads, I was good for about 5-10 rounds before my head started to hurt, not to mention my shoulder.

The secret to this is using the fat RUM brass with very fast powders. The rounds burn the powder much more efficiently so that the velocities are on par with much larger loads in longer barrels.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

It does what the .458 Lott does, but in a smaller package and WSM length action. The rifles are much lighter with shorter barrels, making them much handier in tight quarters. With the design of the Accurate Innovations stock recoil is still manageable. I'm not at all a big recoil fan. I don't believe that I'm afraid of it. I managed to win a safari shooting contest with a .416 Rigby. I hated the recoil of that rifle. I can take my .458B&M however and drop 20 of the big rounds down range and I'm fine with it. The .416 Rigby with 400gr loads, I was good for about 5-10 rounds before my head started to hurt, not to mention my shoulder.

The secret to this is using the fat RUM brass with very fast powders. The rounds burn the powder much more efficiently so that the velocities are on par with much larger loads in longer barrels.

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Hello PHOENIX PHIL,

Interesting and thanks for that.
Sounds like a very efficient cartridge/rifle combination.
'Learn something new every day, whether I want to or not.

I'm totally with you on the .416 Rigby recoil, when used at the original specs (about 2350 fps / 410 gr bullet - painful).
The one I have is shockingly accurate, in spite of the recoil at full velocity.
Either that or the recoil is such that my vision gets so blurry I cannot see all the holes in my target.
I confess to generally loading it to about 2150 fps / 400 gr bullet.
Recoil is not so wretched at that speed (and I can still see all the holes in my target after a few shots).

Likewise, I confess to usually shooting my .458 Lott at that same velocity with either 480 or 500 gr bullets, depending on what I have available these dark days.
It duplicates the original .450 NE 3.25" which, is plenty for my needs.
However, I totally understand your reasoning behind the B&M wildcat, as it sounds like a very good one.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Velo Dog said:

Hello PHOENIX PHIL,

Interesting and thanks for that.
Sounds like a very efficient cartridge/rifle combination.
'Learn something new every day, whether I want to or not.

I'm totally with you on the .416 Rigby recoil, when used at the original specs (about 2350 fps / 410 gr bullet - painful).
The one I have is shockingly accurate, in spite of the recoil at full velocity.
Either that or the recoil is such that my vision gets so blurry I cannot see all the holes in my target.
I confess to generally loading it to about 2150 fps / 400 gr bullet.
Recoil is not so wretched at that speed (and I can still see all the holes in my target after a few shots).

Likewise, I confess to usually shooting my .458 Lott at that same velocity with either 480 or 500 gr bullets, depending on what I have available these dark days.
It duplicates the original .450 NE 3.25" which, is plenty for my needs.
However, I totally understand your reasoning behind the B&M wildcat, as it sounds like a very good one.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

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Yeah my CZ in .416 Rigby was crazy accurate and easy to develop loads for. I don't know for sure, but there's something about roughly 100gr of powder that just sends my head spinning a bit. The .300 RUM I had did the same sort of thing to me.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

Yeah my CZ in .416 Rigby was crazy accurate and easy to develop loads for. I don't know for sure, but there's something about roughly 100gr of powder that just sends my head spinning a bit. The .300 RUM I had did the same sort of thing to me.

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Rogerallthat for sure.
I have noticed that rifles chambered for the Remington Ultra -Mag cartridges are often available on the used market, often in nearly unfired condition.
But in all fairness, so are many hard recoilers, even the old classics.
My .416 began as a CZ 55o as well but I had it modified to my liking (23" barrel, English style front sight / large flip over white bead, mod-70 type safety, larger bolt handle welded on, barrel band sling swivel, and probably some more nonsense that I cannot remember right now.
Shooting it at .404 Jeffery ballistics seems to be the way to go for me these days but, if I ever decide to take it over-seas for heavy game someday, I might strive toward getting used to a more traditional Rigby loading of it.
Cheerio.

I tend to be a more traditional bullet guy (A-Frames, Woodleighs, Partitions), mainly because I'm old. But my 500 Jeffery has a 1 in 10" twist McGowen barrel. No problem stabilizing the 570g TSX's at all.

I'm blaming this thread on my addiction. I didn't even fully realize I had an addiction until recently. Heck, two years ago I thought a .375 H&H was a big gun and a hard kicker. Now, I truly think of it as my light rifle.

But I didn't have a heavy rifle to go along with my light one. Until today that is. Can't wait for it to get here!

Meet my .458 Lott

Congrats! Beautiful rifle and a lefty too! You're half way there, now a nice 500 and eventually a 600 NE and you'll have arrived lol

Royal27 said:

I'm blaming this thread on my addiction. I didn't even fully realize I had an addiction until recently. Heck, two years ago I thought a .375 H&H was a big gun and a hard kicker. Now, I truly think of it as my light rifle.

But I didn't have a heavy rifle to go along with my light one. Until today that is. Can't wait for it to get here!

Meet my .458 Lott

View attachment 31322

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Beauty !

Royal27 said:

I'm blaming this thread on my addiction. I didn't even fully realize I had an addiction until recently. Heck, two years ago I thought a .375 H&H was a big gun and a hard kicker. Now, I truly think of it as my light rifle.

But I didn't have a heavy rifle to go along with my light one. Until today that is. Can't wait for it to get here!

Meet my .458 Lott

View attachment 31322

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Very nice Royal! Are you down in the hill country btw?

colorado said:

Congrats! Beautiful rifle and a lefty too! You're half way there, now a nice 500 and eventually a 600 NE and you'll have arrived lol

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depending on how well i handle heavy loads from the 505 Gibbs id like to try my hand at a .585" caliber in a bolt action rifle. something like the 585 Nyati or perhaps a 577 T-rex. id probably only load the thing to 577 NE levels though.

-matt

colorado said:

Congrats! Beautiful rifle and a lefty too! You're half way there, now a nice 500 and eventually a 600 NE and you'll have arrived lol

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Thanks!!!

That's the thing about addiction. You think you have enough, but you never really do...

The lefty was the hard part and part of the justification for buying it now. They are hard to find, but even harder to sell it appears. I really am pleased with the deal I got on it due to that. Heck, even the asking price wast $1100 less than a right handed version I've seen out there (doesn't mean the rightie will sell at that price obviously...).

PHOENIX PHIL said:

Very nice Royal! Are you down in the hill country btw?

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Thanks Phil!!!

No, that picture came from the buyer, who is in Las Cruces, NM. I'm in Roswell GA, but wish I was in the hill country!!!