Rhino Hunting - Green or Kill

Ok so here is a question i would like to run by everyone. We are all aware of the massive pressure the Rhino population is taking due to the Poaching for there horns so the question is whether you would still hunt the Rhino the traditional way or would you consider "Green Hunting" it due to the rapid decline in their numbers?

There is still room to hunt Rhino the traditional way. Think about animals past their prime and non breeding individuals. These animals add conservation value by being hunted.

Paw Print said:

IThere is still room to hunt Rhino the traditional way. Think about animals past their prime and non breeding individuals. These animals add conservation value by being hunted.

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I agree 100% with you! But that same animal may be hunted a couple of times in his life before he reaches the past prime stage

PHSC _Petrus said:

I agree 100% with you! But that same animal may be hunted a couple of times in his life before he reaches the past prime stage

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Both.

Green to those that wish with younger animals and traditional with select animals that are past prime and could be a danger to the rest of the Rhino population.

Royal27 said:

Green to those that wish with younger animals and traditional with select animals that are past prime

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Agreed!!!

Agree - one can do both.

My issue is that I have zero desire to hunt white rhino. I fully understand that they are much easier to mannage in closed environments than their black cousins, but it is that same tractability which make them, at least for me, such an uninteresting hunt. The Black Rhino, in his native environment, was always the real challenge. In two of my trips to Namibia, I had the opportuniy to close on Black Rhino for photos, and in both cases these were "switched on" animals.

I voted to hunt a Rhino the traditional way, not that I have anything against Green Hunting a Rhino. What I do have a problem with is the fact that you can not legally trade Rhino horn and that is the key problem to the poaching situation. Too much time is invested in protecting the animal rather searching for the right solution.

lbgsafaris said:

I voted to hunt a Rhino the traditional way, not that I have anything against Green Hunting a Rhino. What I do have a problem with is the fact that you can not legally trade Rhino horn and that is the key problem to the poaching situation. Too much time is invested in protecting the animal rather searching for the right solution.

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We all agree that legalising the trade of Rhino horn will stop the poaching and then we might secure the Rhino's future but at this stage they have not legalised it so we need to try and conserve these animals in the best way possible. When a species has no value (Trade, Hunt or selling) then that species will not be kept by farm owners and that is exactly what we are seeing in South Africa. So the question here is will a farm owner benefit from Green Hunting or traditional Hunting on the one side and then on the other side would the client be willing to do a green hunt or will they only be interested in Traditional hunts?
I just want a feel from all the hunters whether they are open minded for the Green hunt or if they will only do traditional hunts, Please keep voting and lets see.

Every one has their opinion on hunting a Rhino.

Green or Kill
Green will cost $10,000 +
Kill will cost you $65,000 +

For the budget minded hunter the darting or Green would be the most affordable.

I would have a difficult time saving for a few years to go and hunt a White Rhino.

I agree to some level with both. Definitely agree to a couple basic points;
1. There is no reason to not hunt an old past prime animal the traditional way. And there is very good reason to do that; Keep value up, pay for conservation and breeding programs, and remove a dangerous animal that may actually decrease the population if it kills a female or young rhino.
2. There has to be value to and revenue generated in order to pay for conservation and if Green Hunting can do that, I'm for it... However in a conversation with a wildlife veterinarian in RSA, he was concerned that some animals get welts from being darted too often and that it needs to be limited. He also felt that some individual rhino's seem to become "addicted" to the drugs used???? I don't know how he concluded that.
3. On one hand, there should be no real value to rhino horn and educated people realize this. However in a marketplace, perceived value tends to become real value and therefor legalized trade of properly harvested rhino horn seems to be an option that could save the species.

ActionBob said:

2.However in a conversation with a wildlife veterinarian in RSA, he was concerned that some animals get welts from being darted too often and that it needs to be limited. He also felt that some individual rhino's seem to become "addicted" to the drugs used???? I don't know how he concluded that.

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Hasn't the "overdarting" issue been addressed, or am I offbase? I thought that there were now limits as to how often a rhino could be legally darted (completely get that a rhino could be illegally darted and this would still be a concern).

It appears that this thread is being hi-jacked in a different direction, from the original question that was asked.

PHSC _Petrus said:

Ok so here is a question i would like to run by everyone. We are all aware of the massive pressure the Rhino population is taking due to the Poaching for there horns so the question is whether you would still hunt the Rhino the traditional way or would you consider "Green Hunting" it due to the rapid decline in their numbers?

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Royal27 said:

Hasn't the "overdarting" issue been addressed, or am I offbase? I thought that there were now limits as to how often a rhino could be legally darted (completely get that a rhino could be illegally darted and this would still be a concern).

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Yes I think you might be correct, my mistake.

PHSC _Petrus said:

. When a species has no value (Trade, Hunt or selling) then that species will not be kept by farm owners and that is exactly what we are seeing in South Africa.

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sorry slightly off track, but petrus the reason i understand from talking to a friend who manages a game ranch in SA isnt that the rhino has no value, but its the cost of security to protect the rhinos now and the fear of loosing their monetary investment thats tied up in the rhino if its poached. this is why they sold some of theirs.

ps about the vote, neither as its something thats never interested me. as red leg says the black rhino if i had that kind of loot would be the one i would be tempted by. shame they arent running around the luangwa like they used to. apart from the few reintroduced ones living in high security areas.

I Green Hunted a Rhino in 2010. My personal experience was great.
I started by doing serious research on the right PH, and together we worked through locations and hunting options. We found the right opportunity on an animal that had not been darted and required conservation data (turns out she was pregnant after all). I spent the better part of a day getting into about 18 yards, the problem being a independent young Rhino she was hanging with was incredibly alert and anxious - I was really surprised.
I completed the stalk to 18 yards in bare feet with my PH hanging back at about 50 yards and the Vet and my wife about 100 yards back, running video. The video of a very alert younger Rhino standing guard while the older Rhino can for a while be seen resting/sleeping, and heard farting so loudly it was picked up on the audio 100 yards away, is both awesome and hilarious.
The hunt went very well, was harder than I ever expected, and the photos of working with a live Rhino continue to be the most talked about in my trophy room. My taxidermist did a fabulous job of recreating the "horns" based on the detailed measurements and photos. The reproduction "horns" hang proudly in my trophy room and, to me, are every bit the trophy as the real thing.
I have no objection to the traditional hunts, for the reasons discussed above already; it just wasn't what I wanted or could afford to do. I fully support Corey Knowleton's Black Rhino conservation hunt in Namibia and would be the first in line for that experience if I could afford the hunt.
Like many things in hunting, I don’t think there is no "right" answer to the question asked. Hunting has become a complex issue of sustenance, sustainability, conversation, sport, heritage, family bonding, and so on. So long as we leave the hunting species better than we found them, let the debates on methodology role on unresolved. It's good fodder in the off season.

What is the current situation in South Africa in regards to darting Rhino? Not sure what the current legislation says… Is it possible for foreign clients to obtain a darting permit and do the darting?

See this 2010 notification from the Department of Environmental Affairs in South Africa:
- Current Situation on Darting Safaris in South Africa: http://www.africahunting.com/threads/current-situation-on-darting-safaris-in-south-africa.3427/

I have no interest in a green hunt. A proper rhino hunt in an area like Chewore would be great, I am just about 40 years too late. If it is legal and helps to sustain the species through consumptive or non consumptive means I say do what makes you happy.

no interest in darting critters here. would be nice to do a proper rhino hunt some day though.

-matt

I voted green hunt, but I would only do such on a black rhino. I would much prefer a traditional hunt, but when the price rivals that of my house, I have a problem justifying that.

spike.t said:

sorry slightly off track, but petrus the reason i understand from talking to a friend who manages a game ranch in SA isnt that the rhino has no value, but its the cost of security to protect the rhinos now and the fear of loosing their monetary investment thats tied up in the rhino if its poached. this is why they sold some of theirs.

ps about the vote, neither as its something thats never interested me. as red leg says the black rhino if i had that kind of loot would be the one i would be tempted by. shame they arent running around the luangwa like they used to. apart from the few reintroduced ones living in high security areas.

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You are correct in saying that security costs allot of money and only certain farms can afford to hire professional anti poaching trackers and that is one reason people cant afford to keep rhinos.
Ive been to a couple of game auctions in the past 5 years and the price for Rhino has come down from about R 500 000 each to R150 000 each. that just shows that the Rhino is loosing market value and that farmers are no longer interested to buy them because of the high risk.

I will have a look at the current legislation in South- Africa as to Client darting. That is a very good point you have there Jerome. I hear of farms Green hunting rhinos all over, but whether they are doing it legally or not i don't know yet.