B. Searcy 500/416 NE

enysse · Jul 9, 2014

I bought a Win Model 70 for $1100 and I have 400 new Rem brass for $400 and whole bunch of TSX and Barnes Solids.

Velo Dog · Jul 9, 2014

AkMike said:
Depending on the barrel thickness you could have your 375 bored out to 416 for a few hundred.

One would still have to scrape up a mighty cheap .375 in the first place to consider such a project.
At that, it'd have to be one he would not want to just keep as a .375 for some reason as well.
I think I did well just to buy a CZ .416 Rigby in the first place.

Velo Dog · Jul 9, 2014

enysse said:
I bought a Win Model 70 for $1100 and I have 400 new Rem brass for $400 and whole bunch of TSX and Barnes Solids.

I paid $850. for my CZ "American" at Cabela's in Rogers MN, and whatever Hornady brass was selling for about 5 or 6 years ago, I have 150 rds of it.

enysse · Jul 9, 2014

Good old Obama drove the price of shooting through the roof!!!!!
I was a few days late on buying that gun. Oh well, not much I can do about it.

Velo Dog · Jul 10, 2014

enysse said:
Good old Obama drove the price of shooting through the roof!!!!!
I was a few days late on buying that gun. Oh well, not much I can do about it.

Yeh, old Barry is sending all metals to China for pennies on the dollar as fast as they can load the ships.
That is at least a large part of why we cannot get ammunition since his Reich has hit full throttle.
I have never seen someone wreck & ruin everything he touches and yet receive total praise by the media, as if nothing is wrong.

matt85 · Jul 10, 2014

my CZ 550 in 375 H&H was around $1100.00 after tax so getting your model 70 in 416 Rem at the same price isnt bad!

-matt

enysse · Jul 10, 2014

I really want to buy a nice Ruger RSM .416 Rigby or CZ in a 404 Jeffrey. But I'm fine with the .416 Rem!

matt85 · Jul 12, 2014

Range report time:

took the Searcy and a whole bunch of ammunition to the local range today. the ammunition consisted of 24 hand loads and 12 factory loads. all but 6 cartridges were fired and overall the trip was a huge amount of fun! first something should be noted for the recoil of the 500/416 NE 3.25" cartridge. im new to the world of big bore guns and from my perspective the recoil is impressive! even out of an 11 pound rifle it will put a 230 pound man up on his heels if a proper stance is not had. I allowed 4 other people to each take a single shot and watching them shoot the gun was almost as fun as shooting it myself

. seeing the range master caught off guard by the very pushy gun was especially fun. having said all that, the recoil is very manageable and even fun. I found the way the gun torques left or right depending on the barrel fired to be very amusing. I personally fired 26 rounds and easily could have continued shooting but the remaining 6 loads weren't regulating so it would have been a waste. my last words before leaving the range were "I should have brought more ammo".

hand loads: these were Barnes 400gr TSX over 84 to 89 grains of IMR 4350 in Norma brass. I found the low end loads crossed badly and the hits gradually came together as the powder load increased. at 89gr the hits still cross but were within around 2 inches of each other. my guess would be the regulating load will be found between 90-92 grains. however, im concerned IMR4350 may generate too much pressure to reach the regulating load safely. I have some IMR 7828 ill try in the next batch of cartridges. sadly in my excitement to get to the range I forgot my chronograph at home.

factory loads: I brought 12 loads made by Superior Ammunition, 4 of the Barnes solids and 8 of the Barnes XLC. the XLC cartridges shot pretty well overall but some of the brass seemed to be slightly out of spec and didn't want to eject. if I thought the XLC cartridges were out of spec its nothing compared to the cartridges loaded with solids! the cartridges loaded with solids caused major problems with ejection. one of them got so stuck the ejector broke the rim and the cartridge had to be knocked out with a cleaning rod and a hammer! all of the factory ammunition will need to be pulled down and run threw my full length sizer to be made useful.

after thought: ive been told the 500/416 NE generates around the same recoil as the 450 NE and 470 NE. if this is true then Im going to give some thought into having a set of barrels chambered in 500 NE made for this Searcy rifle. I figure as a 500/416 NE its already got the correctly sized receiver for the task so it shouldn't be too much trouble to fit the gun for the 500 NE cartridge. ive always wanted a 50 caliber cartridge rifle but ive never been too keen on the 50 BMG (in my OP its useless). only reason i haven't picked up a 500 NE or a 505 Gibbs is because i was afraid i couldn't handle the recoil (i took a very hard look at a used CZ in 505 Gibbs).

thanks for reading
-matt

Velo Dog · Jul 13, 2014

matt85 said:
Range report time:

took the Searcy and a whole bunch of ammunition to the local range today. the ammunition consisted of 24 hand loads and 12 factory loads. all but 6 cartridges were fired and overall the trip was a huge amount of fun! first something should be noted for the recoil of the 500/416 NE 3.25" cartridge. im new to the world of big bore guns and from my perspective the recoil is impressive! even out of an 11 pound rifle it will put a 230 pound man up on his heels if a proper stance is not had. I allowed 4 other people to each take a single shot and watching them shoot the gun was almost as fun as shooting it myself . seeing the range master caught off guard by the very pushy gun was especially fun. having said all that, the recoil is very manageable and even fun. I found the way the gun torques left or right depending on the barrel fired to be very amusing. I personally fired 26 rounds and easily could have continued shooting but the remaining 6 loads weren't regulating so it would have been a waste. my last words before leaving the range were "I should have brought more ammo".

hand loads: these were Barnes 400gr TSX over 84 to 89 grains of IMR 4350 in Norma brass. I found the low end loads crossed badly and the hits gradually came together as the powder load increased. at 89gr the hits still cross but were within around 2 inches of each other. my guess would be the regulating load will be found between 90-92 grains. however, im concerned IMR4350 may generate too much pressure to reach the regulating load safely. I have some IMR 7828 ill try in the next batch of cartridges. sadly in my excitement to get to the range I forgot my chronograph at home.

factory loads: I brought 12 loads made by Superior Ammunition, 4 of the Barnes solids and 8 of the Barnes XLC. the XLC cartridges shot pretty well overall but some of the brass seemed to be slightly out of spec and didn't want to eject. if I thought the XLC cartridges were out of spec its nothing compared to the cartridges loaded with solids! the cartridges loaded with solids caused major problems with ejection. one of them got so stuck the ejector broke the rim and the cartridge had to be knocked out with a cleaning rod and a hammer! all of the factory ammunition will need to be pulled down and run threw my full length sizer to be made useful.

after thought: ive been told the 500/416 NE generates around the same recoil as the 450 NE and 470 NE. if this is true then Im going to give some thought into having a set of barrels chambered in 500 NE made for this Searcy rifle. I figure as a 500/416 NE its already got the correctly sized receiver for the task so it shouldn't be too much trouble to fit the gun for the 500 NE cartridge. ive always wanted a 50 caliber cartridge rifle but ive never been too keen on the 50 BMG (in my OP its useless). only reason i haven't picked up a 500 NE or a 505 Gibbs is because i was afraid i couldn't handle the recoil (i took a very hard look at a used CZ in 505 Gibbs).

thanks for reading
-matt

Matt85,

Thanks for the update.
Glad to hear your new rifle is fun to shoot and that it has excellent potential.
Sorry to hear about the rod and hammer situation.
According to some folks, monolithic bullets are not considered safe in antique double rifles but I have not heard that about firing them in modern doubles.
When one ejector tore through a cartridge rim, at least you found out that the ejector spring on that side is not weak!

"Superior" Ammunition .... maybe they should re-think their company name.

Sounds like your rifle will soon regulate when you find the right load.
Also, having a set of .500 NE barrels might be a good addition to this rifle.
In an 11 lb rifle, I personally have found the .500 NE to be very manageable with 570 gr bullets (Woodleigh) at a bit over 2100 fps.

Happy shooting,
Velo Dog.

matt85 · Jul 13, 2014

when I contact Butch next month for general maintenance on the rifle ill ask him about making a set of 500 NE barrels. im broke at the moment but if the price isn't threw the roof then ill find a way to put some $$ together. when I was looking at the 505 Gibbs cartridge the general price of guns chambered in it was just silly! the cheapest rifle I could find was a CZ 550 custom and if memory serves me correct it was over $3000 and from what ive heard of the custom shop guns... its not worth it. if im going to spend $3k+ it might as well be on double rifle barrels.

the 500/416 NE and 500 NE combo seems like it would be a perfect two barrel set for Africa. the 500/416 NE would be used for most DG and any chance PG while the 500 NE will be used on the elephant hunt I keep dreaming about (which will happen someday).

for the 500 NE barrels, I was thinking about having them regulated for either the CEB 570gr solid/HP or the North Fork 570gr solid/cup.

-matt

Velo Dog · Jul 13, 2014

Matt85

You are wise to not waste money on a CZ so called "Custom Shop" product, even if they didn't cost over 3K (ridiculous price).

The only two I have seen in person so far are my .500 Jeffery and another one here in Anchorage, Caliber .505 Gibbs.
Neither worked at all, right out of the shipping cartons.
Also a man in this forum (Colorado) posted that he had the same problem with his in .500 Jeffery.
Neither mine or the .505 would feed factory live ammunition (no reloads tried yet) plus mine would not chamber A-Zoom snap caps at all (bolt wouldn't quite close).
If I manipulated live factory Kynoch cartridges into the chamber while another person held my rifle and pushed the bolt, (or visa versa) they would almost chamber but severe pressure on the bolt handle was necessary to close it.

When I called them, 2 or 3 times over a 2 or 3 months time span, their so called "Gunsmith" told me that A-Zoom must be making their snap caps out of spec and that Kynoch has been out of spec in their experience so, I should use Superior brand (and you personally have seen how "superior" that brand is).
Then he wanted me to send him my rifle and some Kynoch live ammunition so he could fix the problem (guess he forgot he'd told me Kynoch was to be avoided).
I will be dipped in it if I'm going to let some goober like that touch any rifle of mine after he already jacked it up right from the get-go (and the aforementioned .505) to say the least.
He/they have done plenty already............."Custom Shop" my ass.

They probably have a good belly laugh every time they go to the bank with over 3 grand from another stupid sucker like me.
Their less than 1/3 the cost production rifles never seem to have those problems (I own several in several calibers and they are excellent).

Currently a real live Gunsmith here in Anchorage (Andy Hawk) is fixing the problem.
He made the .505 run like a Swiss watch and he has done such excellent work on other Mausers for me plus one double of mine (made a larger front sight for my .450 No2 that looked original) that, I just left my .500 in his excellent care and told him to take his time.

It will cost me but it will be done right......live and learn.

Whew, sorry for my rant away from your double at hand.

Be ready for a shock on the spare barrels question.
When I ordered my Merkel, I asked about them supplying it with 26" barrels in .303 British, and/or spare shotgun barrels.
! I could literally have bought a complete and decent used double rifle on gunsinternational.com for the price of the .303 barrels and a BRAND NEW - Merkel 20 gauge shotgun, on the same frame from Merkel themselves, for the exact same price as only the barrels!

Hope this has added to the confusion.
Yor pal,
Velo Dog.

matt85 · Jul 13, 2014

if a second set of barrels for my Searcy is too expensive then ill just have a custom bolt gun built for me in 505 Gibbs. im already in the works for a custom rifle in 458 Win mag (im trading another rifle for it).

-matt

matt85 · Jul 14, 2014

so I took the rife out to the woods to do some more shooting with it today and noticed two problems. first problem isn't really a problem its just something I need to be careful of. the gun doesn't have a hinged front trigger... this isn't a problem when my hands are dry and ive got a firm grip on the gun but it was 90 degrees today and my hands were covered in sweat. on the 3rd shot of the day the gun slipped in my hands a little and the front trigger bit my finger (good thing I keep bandages in the truck).

the second problem is something that concerns me, I found a small crack in the wood on the underside of the rifle where the wood meets the receiver. from the looks of the crack it was probably caused by someone carelessly removing the stock from the receiver. while this crack shouldn't cause any functional problems, it follows the grain of the wood and im afraid it could grow and eventually chip off. any suggestions for dealing with this crack?

aside from that stuff, it was a fun day! once my finger was bandaged I resumed shooting both the double and my 375 H&H. my shoulder has now thoroughly be beaten into a pulp but im sure ill be ready to go at it again next weekend for some more 500/416 NE load development.

-matt

Velo Dog · Jul 14, 2014

matt85 said:
so I took the rife out to the woods to do some more shooting with it today and noticed two problems. first problem isn't really a problem its just something I need to be careful of. the gun doesn't have a hinged front trigger... this isn't a problem when my hands are dry and ive got a firm grip on the gun but it was 90 degrees today and my hands were covered in sweat. on the 3rd shot of the day the gun slipped in my hands a little and the front trigger bit my finger (good thing I keep bandages in the truck).

the second problem is something that concerns me, I found a small crack in the wood on the underside of the rifle where the wood meets the receiver. from the looks of the crack it was probably caused by someone carelessly removing the stock from the receiver. while this crack shouldn't cause any functional problems, it follows the grain of the wood and im afraid it could grow and eventually chip off. any suggestions for dealing with this crack?

aside from that stuff, it was a fun day! once my finger was bandaged I resumed shooting both the double and my 375 H&H. my shoulder has now thoroughly be beaten into a pulp but im sure ill be ready to go at it again next weekend for some more 500/416 NE load development.

-matt

Yup, doubles that kick much harder than about .375 H&H / .450-.400, need a hinged front trigger or, you can wear a bandaide or duct tape on your finger for range practice.
Would the maker be interested in repairing the cracked stock .. for a reasonable fee?

Heym 88 · Aug 15, 2014

Matt,
Have you heard anything back about your double?

matt85 · Aug 15, 2014

good time for an update.

i dont think i mentioned it in this thread, but shortly after the last shooting trip i discovered something was seriously wrong with my chambers! the once fired brass was coming out badly bent with an obvious weak point so it could not be reloaded. i suspected it was the barrels coming into the breech face at too extreme of an angle causing the brass to have to turn to meet the breech face. so emailed Mr. Searcy and told him about my problem and he quickly responded telling me to send the rifle to him.

flash forward to this week, i sent Mr. Searcy an email earlier in the week asking for an update. he got back to me last night saying the problem was exactly what i thought it was. to fix it he was going to set the barrels back to the breech face which he says should fix the problem.

on a side note: i asked him if he would install a hinged front trigger to prevent further hand injuries. he said he could do this but it would cost me $1000! so it looks like this rifle will require either a glove or some kind of finger wrap to protect the shooter when used with sweaty hands.

thanks
-matt

Red Leg · Aug 16, 2014

Hmmmm. Searcy has been at this a while so I assume he knows what he is doing. I am not sure how putting barrels back "on face" accomplishes a fix to what he problem is. Based on your description, I thought this was a convergence issue - lateral convergence of the chambers. His repair would seem to resolve a vertical flexing issue. I am sure he will test fire it before sending it home. Fortunately it is a rimmed round so head space shouldn't be thrown off.

matt85 · Aug 16, 2014

I don't know enough about doubles to know if his plan will solve the problem. adding a second barrel introduces problems ive never dealt with before. I can only wait and hope the issue is resolved otherwise ill be up shit creek without a paddle.

-matt

Heym 88 · Aug 16, 2014

I don't have an articulated front trigger on my Searcy either. I have small hands so I'm fortunate that I don't have front trigger issues. My Heym does have a hinged front trigger. A $1000.00 is a lot of money for a hinged trigger. I sure hope he gets if fixed to where you can enjoy it.

matt85 · Aug 16, 2014

under normal WA state conditions a hinged trigger isnt needed with my 500/416 NE. but when its 90F+ outside and yer sweating like crazy from being out in the sun all day the gun will easily slip under recoil. out of the 50 or so rounds ive fired from the gun it only slipped once but it was still bad enough that it didnt entirely stop bleeding for 3 days.

-matt

B. Searcy 500/416 NE

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