Is Elmari a registered outfitter in Namibia? All countries are trying to step up protection of local industry.
I think NAPHA is trying to protect their industry rightfully in a wrongful manner! The matter should have been sent to the Police and NAPHA should have reported just that...if they'd wanted to get mileage from the issue. I doubt they have the jurisdiction to ask anyone to refund money .
no elmari is a registered ph and outfitter in south africa, again it comes back to why they used namibian ph's
thats what napha did, they kept on putting pressure on nature conservation to get mr kemp
the other thing no one ever mentioned, was after mr kemp found out there was no permits or nothing, he went to the police station in okahandja and layed down an official statement of what happened, but the police officer never followed it up, mr kemp also has the case file number for that, and it got thrown in with the rest of the stacks,
again napha should be consistant, otherwise bad publicity will bite them in the end
lots of ph's and guides doesnt want to be members of napha
I think you're right!
But Mr Kemp didn't say so either in this forum! He should perhaps be more careful of his reputation or others may take care of it for him!
Maybe he'll have learned a lesson thru all this! What is Elmari's operation called?
mr kemp is not on this forum, he hardly knows how to use a pc, only his son is on here
his son hunted that big eland, and then even napha stuck their nose in to investigate if it was legally hunted, why would they travel all the way from SA 1800km with their rifles and permits to import and export to come and hunt illegal for themselves for meat and tropies, and travel through 4 border posts with half ton of illegal hunted eland meat, would be really really stupid! then again they always suspect SA hunters, napha should really concentrate on the more important aspects
i will find out and post the details here
You make a very valid point. All parties should be called to answer for their involvement, no matter what role they played, as all hunters, clients, ph's, and outfitters know that there are a lot of legal matters that should be dealt with diligently when guiding clients from abroad on hunting safaris.
So nobody, whether from SA or Namibia, male or female, old or young, should be exempted from the consequences of an ilegal hunt that they took part in. However, the claim that sticks in my mind, is the one where Mr Kemp allegedly could not explain why after paying the PH to get the permits did not check himself to see the that the permits were in place with his own eyes. It is true that every person in the hunt has a different role to play, others have overlapping roles, and others very little role to play...but when one role is neglected it should be out of moral concern that another active party member should question it ie if Mr Kemp relied on the PH to get the permits and the hunt proceeded without any checking of the permits, somebody in the party should have seen that the permits were not in place etc and should have said "hey, what about the permits? are they in place? are you sure we are hunting legally?" It seems there were at least four or five individuals involved and to say that not one person made a clear and distinct point of raising the question of the validity of the hunt and permits etc, means that all were to blame. Hoewever, it is up to the authorities to judge whether it is a case of negligence, bad-luck/chance-happening, or actually a mere case of "trying to make a quick buck"etc...
You are right and I agree, all should be called to answer and Mr Kemp's name should not be the only one on the frontpage of the local newspaper, but , like I said, that claim he allegedly made about paying the PH beforehand and expecting the PH to deliver without him checking for himself raises a lot of questions in me about his role as instigator.
I dont know if he is guilty, I dont know the whole story, and sometimes the media and certain powerful and influential bodies direct the course of certain things. Though I trust that Jerome of AH did not publish false and unfounded material based on 'hearsay".
Originally Posted by NamHunter
surely i agree, all was wrong with this hunt, and it was done overegerly, as they were pushed for time aswell because the client had to fly back and he was on the end of his hunt basically, and elmari wanted to produce
mr kemp ,as the agent, is right to have advised elmari to pay the ph, by law mr kemp or elmari may not do anything else than pay the ph to do the work at hand, cause it was part of him accepting the offer of being the official ph and he and he only could take out the permit by law, thats why he was paid by elmari
R10 000 for arranging and getting the permit aswell as doing the hunt. If he was merely the dog handler, then who was the guide, either elmari or gideon(nam ph)
the thing is, elmari contacted when back in SA, she contacted Napha with her client and said that mr Kemp was the wrongfull party, and from there never to have heard from her again, meanwhile covering her own arse, cause she did the hunt with the hunter along with gideon, so she acted illegally as the ph. she is trying to look as the innocent party meanwhile she's just as guilty,
the morning they met on the farm the ph was supposed to bring the permit with him that he took out from MET, but it didnt happen and elmari and the ph agreed that he would get it in the following week as it was a weekend. then all turned sour, as elmari paid everyone involved but the leopard skin was of no use and all of a sudden mr Kemp was to one on the blaming list, and no one namibian has done something wrong......
The PH took the money for the permit and didn't get one? Sounds like a wrong Namibian to me !:)
Originally Posted by NamHunter
Why wasn't the Leopard skin of any use?
Why won't anyone name Elmari's outfit? I certainly wouldn't want to hunt with her and maybe others should know!
Yes, thats a crappy way to deal with a hunt-gone-wrong: covering your own arse by pre-empting the consequences and then implicating others before the "great enquiry", so that the one who made the call seems like the party that confessed and owned up, and the unaware and implicated party becomes the target of investigation...very lame.
The permit should have been there that morning of the hunt, and elmari and mr kemp should have stopped the hunt until a permit was produced. I would have done that at the expense of the clients satisfaction because, at the end of the day, we serve our clients before anything, but we dont attend ph schools and join conservation bodies etc that regulate our dealings with clients to entertain the illegal activities that would satisfy the client. So if the ph doesnt deliver the permit, does it mean that we as agents or active members of the hunt dont have the right to say 'this is illegal". I know the agent cannot handle and work with the registration and apllication for permits, it is the legal forte of the ph, and the ph only, but a voice is a lot more powerful than one realises. There is nothing to stop anyone from saying "where is the permit?", "is it legal?", "can you prove it?", "ok, no permit-no hunt, or I advise the authorities that can legally stop the hunt". Even though its the work of the ph to deal with that only, and not mr kemp, it is he (mr kemp)who is the agent that should ask questions, essentially agents represent their outfitters and in order for their agency to work they must avoid this kind of mishappening at all costs by makng sure the ph/outfitter is doing his job effectively and legally, otherwise the agent loses out when the clients go home with lawsuits or bad trophies etc. I wouldnt let a client of mine hunt an animal for which there is no permit, simple and fact. The client can then return home and brandish my company as one that never delivered, but that will be the end of it, and there will be no court cases because of letting things slide to get that reference letter and, most importantly, the money from the client. The animal performs the greatest service with its life, and THEN the client with his money and reference letter...so when I hear of a hunt going on without a license produced on the hunting day, I think that the idea of money and reputation superseded all previous training and ethic.
I am trying to opening a hunting agency in SA and I am relatively new to the legislation behind permits and licenses etc but there are a few things that are not beyond me, or any person for taht matter, and that is that if you dont have the permit dont hunt or else you are looking to get closed down or brought up on charges.
Originally Posted by NamHunter
The fact of the matter...if you don't have the permit in hand...you don't have a legal right to hunt for the leopard. Trusting someone to get the permit next week....Good Luck!!! A lot of people at fault here. I think what we can learn here is not to involve a number of different parties with different agendas to plan and carry out a hunt in quick order. The fewer people involved the less likely things will slip through the cracks. The Namibian PH didn't get the permit...bottom line...from what has been told anyway. He got his money though!
Thanx all for your inputs and views,
Seems to be a classic old Nam Leopard ........up! Countless nam outits,/ ph's as well as SA companies have given Nam a reputation on Leopard mainly because of laxed regulations in Nam in the past, as well as greed from both SA and Nam companies.
All involved should be held accountable but ultimately the outfitters should carry the brunt of the weight!
This is nasty and a lifelong dream has been destroyed!
Not the way to go about buisiness,
Could not agree more.
Originally Posted by Jaco Strauss
This is not an implication...., It is Illegal hunting!
Found guilty by a Namibian Court!
Decided to look this up on the web. For your reference:
the Namibian: Top Stories
Check the archive.
"Leopard hunter admits guilt
By: JANA-MARI SMITH
ILLEGAL TROPHY ... Ferdi Kemp (left) poses with his American client in front of the illegally shot leopard. Photo: Contributed
SOUTH AFRICAN hunter Ferdi Kemp paid a fine of N$4 000 in late August after he admitted to taking a client on an illegal leopard hunt in Namibia in 2009.
The Okahandja magistrate's court this week confirmed the payment by Kemp, who was fined for hunting protected game and hunting a leopard without a permit.
Kemp owns 'Namibia Pro Hunting & Safaris' and claimed in July that he was innocent?
Kemp conducted a leopard hunt in early 2009 with an American client, despite the fact that he is not registered in Namibia as a professional hunter. The hunt was moreover conducted without a Ministry of Environment and Tourism permit.
The Ministry began investigating Kemp and a Namibian professional hunter after Kemp's American client lodged an official complaint against Kemp earlier this year. The hunter complained after he was unable to claim the trophy, because of a lack of legal documentation required to ship the leopard trophy to the US.
Gideon Cloete, the Namibian professional hunter, was also fined N$4 000 for his involvement in the hunt. Hunting industry insiders however say that Cloetes involvement was minimal, and that while he is a registered professional hunter in Namibia, he was hired by Kemp to act as a dog handler on the hunt, which took place on a farm close to Okahandja.
The entire initiative came from Kemp. He told the outfitter in South Africa that he would obtain the hunting permits. Cloete only worked with the dogs, a Namibian hunter said this week.
According to the hunting industry, illegal hunting is rife in Namibia, and is threatening an industry that play a vital role generating income and protecting wildlife.
Marina Lamprecht, an executive member of the Namibian Professional Hunting Association, last month said that the most serious threat to the local trophy hunting industry is the increase in illegal and unethical trophy hunting, which threatens to damage the reputation and popularity of Namibia as an international hunting destination?
Lamprecht added that law enforcement has to be tightened. She said that with the current system of often merely issuing an acknowledgment of guilt fine to those caught hunting illegally, this practice will continue uncontrolled".
She said that in most cases, the culprits are South Africans operating illegally in our country, by posing as Namibian professional hunters or trophy hunting operators".
However, like many, she said that Namibians are often found to be involved, by sighing hunting permits on behalf of non-registered outsiders.
A local hunter yesterday said that every Namibian who signs a permit for an illegal hunter must face legal consequences?"
Must admit after 2009 Nam has tightened the belt around the loose laxed regulation they had, there are many many such case pre 2009 as the regulation in Nam left allot to be desired, There are cases of cat skins being folded into dry hartman skins and exported who knows how long this had gone on before the hive was opened up.....SIS!
Hopefully its something of the past and we can move on!
so nice of papers spreading news what ever they like, strange enough they namibian only interviewd the namibian citizens and got the details, once again from a certain source from NAPHA aswell.
I would really like to know where the namibian got its facts from, seeing that they were not at the court case, and never interviewed him, not even the investigating officer, just the ph's and NAPHA, what a coinsidence, all namibians.
Typical, once again one namibian covering for the other, and they couldnt wait to phone the paper to tell them THEIR story
i will get all the details today, and put all the names involved here for you guys to see, all ph's, farm owners, outfitters, agents etc, seeing that Napha and the Namibian didnt mention any others.
also names from NAPHA and MET, who handled the case, also the police officer where the case was made at okahandja police and never followed up with it.
Nobody even asked why it came to that mr kemp just paid the fine, if everybody did their homework they would have found out why, but anyhow, people has made up their minds, ill atleast just get all the names out there who were so called innocent but all got nice big chuncks of money
Agreed Nam hunter, Positive in this is that this has become less of a regular occurance and we should be happy for that, I understand what you are getting and belive that its fair, Let's hope that we will not see incidents like this in the future.
hopefully not yes!
but still others got away easily, how was that fair?
the farm owner got paid R18 000 for a leopard he let hunt illegally. how fair is that? not once was he even mentioned?
I think ill make a point of it from now on to see which Nam hunter or outfitter hunts in SA, and keep an eagle eye on them, and let them just put a foot skew and ill be on them with all the papers, same with Napha, from now on ill make a point of it to see where and when and what is going on, seing that they all work 100% according to the law, and let nothing slip by.
Working on the statement that was made by Napha, most culprits are from south africans,
Napha and the Namibian hunting industry should be greatfull for the south africans promoting namibia and taking their clients there, or maybe south africans should take their business somewhere else seing that south africans are such a problem and that they probably dont need business from them.
Namibians way of thinking "our industry is so big and we dont need them", especially Napha.
Lets see where that gets them.