Thanks Jerome! Awesome site!

ive almost given up on prarie dogs. i cant get closer than 800 yards which makes for a good challenge but they are so gun shy they stay down for over an hour between shots. i gave up n found a ton of feral catalina goats near me. u cant get closer than 600 yards but killing a dozen a day sure relieves the stresses of the workin day rut. thank god for hunting.

as for shooting the mounds thats just down right funny. im gonna have to try that. i did get about 7 once( i think with one shot) but i was about 500 yards away and had a half barrel of tannerite mixed that i shot when the dogs were out. does that count?

i would like to ask one final question that i have pondered for quite some time. ive been very blessed and done well in the last 10 years. that being said i could afford ele hunts. my problem is that i earned every penny i made. money is hard to come by much less earn. i cant justify paying for an elephant hunt for myself. i mean holy hell that would have taken my dad 3 years of pay to afford when i was a kid. how do people handle that kinda sticker shock even when they can easily afford it. i dont understand.

Originally Posted by tap

i would like to ask one final question that i have pondered for quite some time. ive been very blessed and done well in the last 10 years. that being said i could afford ele hunts. my problem is that i earned every penny i made. money is hard to come by much less earn. i cant justify paying for an elephant hunt for myself. i mean holy hell that would have taken my dad 3 years of pay to afford when i was a kid. how do people handle that kinda sticker shock even when they can easily afford it. i dont understand.

Some would say the same about a buff, leopard or croc hunt, much less a combination of all 3. It's just a matter of your personal perspective.

very true. i guess for me when it comes to family idont care. i could honestly say that if my son or wife wanted an elephant we would shoot one asap. i will spend any amount of money necessary to buy memories but hunts for myself have no value to me. lets just say i love my family more than life itself and africa had provided me with riches greater than i could have ever imagined.

As I've said many times here- This is the best forum I have ever seen. The "owner" (whom I met this year at SCI) is top notch, all the contributors are top notch, everyone's handling of "newbies" is very nice. Truly not what you see on other sites. I,too, would like to hunt elephant BUT I too am financially challenged in that endeavor. If that makes me unwanted somewhere else, so be it. This is where I stay.

Jerome has always had the time for me. I have posted before, Jerome should be commended for his hard work to put this site together for all to use, and at no charge of membership.

Jerome, thank you for such a useful site, and all you members thanks for all the posts and wanting to help each and everyone here.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

"A Dream can be relived, again and again in Africa".

Originally Posted by tap

very true. i guess for me when it comes to family idont care. i could honestly say that if my son or wife wanted an elephant we would shoot one asap. i will spend any amount of money necessary to buy memories but hunts for myself have no value to me. lets just say i love my family more than life itself and africa had provided me with riches greater than i could have ever imagined.

You don't have to convince me tap, I'm planning a PG hunt with my 14 year old for next year for exactly the same reasons. FWIW I am also a member of the other site and I caught your thread shortly after it began. At the time I didn't make the connection between tap and tony, but I can tell you my first thought was that you had stirred up a pot and it would turn a bit ugly. I'm not saying it was your intent, only you know what your intention was.

Whatever the case, you walked in to the other site as a new member which obviously means you have little if any rapport built up with its long term members. With one of your first if not first post you bring up the very controversial subject of high fence vs open ground hunting. the other site has had it's share of trollers and those who want to stir up trouble, again not saying that was your intent. So when you as a new member come in and start off with that subject, you're going to naturally put at least some of the members on high alert. Right or wrong that's just going to be the way it is.

Making matters worse as someone who admittedly has never hunted elephant, you made it sound like you just take a drive around until you see the one you want and then hop out and shoot it. This statement whether you knew it or not came soon after Buzz Charlton of Charlton McCallum Safaris had posted a thread about one of his trackers Criton getting stomped by an ele. That fact along with a community of very experienced elephant hunters.....well I think you may have an idea now of how that comes across.

Now finally with respect to your shooting ability. Again with no rapport built up with it's members you laid claim to regularly shooting mulies at 400 yards on a dead run. Now having been a western hunter for the last 20 years and an absolute Coues deer nut, I have found myself shooting much longer distance than many hunters do. I get it, it's the nature of the game out here. But 400 yards on a dead run is a shot that the vast majority of hunters are never going to even have an opportunity at, if they do they won't take it and even if they did they're not likely to be successful. I'm not saying you haven't done it nor that you aren't a good enough shot to do that, but you must understand that your audience had no rapport with you in this situation. Naturally there are going to be those that at the very least raise their eyebrows at such claims.

I don't post all of this to either attack you or to defend the other site, just trying to make an objective analysis of what happened. As an engineer exhibiting many of the stereotypes associated with my profession, I have a lifetime of personal experience saying things I now wish I could take back. There's a funny Dilbert cartoon about "The Knack", engineers and their "utter social ineptitude." I've on way too many occasions exhibited this social ineptitude.

So I'd be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were just being honest perhaps brutally and/or ignorantly so, but in the end honest. This is not something that I have a problem with, but I know in doing so I've had at times the same effect on people.

the other site has a huge amount of very experienced knowledgeable people in the hunting and shooting world. While I do post here more often, I spend as much time over there as I do here. I am grateful that the other site exists and it has provided me a huge amount of help. I am also grateful for AH, I've met whether over this forum or also in person several of the members here and consider them friends.

There are a few of us with "dual citizenship" both here and there. This obviously includes Mike70560 as well as safari-lawyer. It was my pleasure to meet both of these individuals at DSC this year as well some other the other site members. I have to agree with Mike, the other site while it may have it's less than stellar moments is another great website for the hunter and shooter. I'm sorry that you got off on the wrong foot over there, but I hope you can see how that happened given perhaps a more complete view of the bigger picture.

I think there's plenty of room in this world for AH, the other site and any other internet community that shares the same passion we all feel for hunting. IMO I think hunting and hunters are much better of if we avoid an it's Us or Them mentality.

Originally Posted by tap

I'm sorry Jerome but I cheated on you.

I knew it!


Thank you for the kind words and support everyone!

AH would certainly not be what it is if it was not for our members and I am so proud to be a part of this site that is so friendly, open and informative, it has exceeded all of my expectations, and this is only because of all of you who contribute so much and are so conscientious and knowledgeable.

For all of you cheaters out there... I know you'll be back!

With my sincere appreciation.

Jerome

Originally Posted by AfricaHunting.com

I knew it!


Thank you for the kind words and support everyone!

AH would certainly not be what it is if it was not for our members and I am so proud to be a part of this site that is so friendly, open and informative, it has exceeded all of my expectations, and this is only because of all of you who contribute so much and are so conscientious and knowledgeable.

For all of you cheaters out there... I know you'll be back!

With my sincere appreciation.

Jerome

Jerome, you need to go to African hunting forum at the other site and read for yourself what really happened there, because the view TAP is giving you is very self serving to say the least!

I'm going to make one post on this and you may believe what you read or disregard!

Originally Posted by tap

Let me just start by saying this is an awesome site. I'm sorry Jerome but I cheated on you. I ventured over to accurate reloading to see how the discussions were and all I can say is wow. In a matter of 1 post I successfully pissed off every elephant hunter on that site. I received several private messages from the guys bragging about how many elephants they hunted and how hard and difficult they were to hunt. Long story short is that they were bragging on how many ele's they had shot in PM's. I was told that if I can't afford to hunt the real animals that I need to go another website.

Can't say I've every believed someone hunts to brag about how much they paid for an animal and how many times they've done it but I've just witnessed such hunters. I've got into some semi heated discussions on here before but I can honestly say that the people on here have class. I've met you in person as well Jerome and I absolutely know you have class as well. You bust your ass to help guys like me, that you barely know, to have an exceptional hunt. If I had a glass to raise I'd sure as hell be raising it to you right now Jerome.

Here's to a good site and good people.

Originally Posted by Mike70560

I post on four sites. Not as much as I use to. AH has been a good site and in general more polite.

Tony, you went on the other site to stir crap. If you act like an ass and make outlandish claims (400 yard running Mule deer shots) you will be hammered.

No more than I would sit by and watch AH being criticized on another site I will not let another site be unfairly judged on here.

Or~below>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the other site

Originally posted by tony a p:
I can tell you that when I hunt public land elk in Utah and New Mexico I carry around about a 90 lb ruck sack every single day. I usually cover about 20 miles a day and many times I don't even shoot an elk in a 10 day hunt because they are too small. If I do shoot one I can assure you they arent standing there watching me walk up to them for the last 100 yards right before I shoot them. Just sayin... It's not my cup of tee. But if you guys want to complain about having to walk 10 to 15 miles a day you should quit hunting because most people enjoy hunting to the point they don't even know they put 15 miles of boot leather down. i sure don't and I love every single mile I hike but then again I'm in top shape so I wouldn't feel it. Maybe you guys should work out a bit more???

Tap alias, (<TONY A P> on the other site,) Mike hit the nail square on the head with his post above! In my opinion, and that opinion is shared by everyone who read your outrageous and poorly written posts on the other site, you simply went there to stir the pot, and even that was with 200 word single sentence, with no capitals, that was difficult to read, and/or that frankly didn't a lot of sense! Son I've hunted all over the state of New Mexico for fifty years and anyone who can't get closer than 400 yards from a mule deer and then shoot at a unwounded running deer , is a fellow who needs to quit hunting and leave it to real hunters.

Hauling a 90 pound RUCK SACK and making 20 miles a day in New Mexico elk country is a ridiculous claim. Without the 90 pound pack, if you cover 20 miles a day looking for elk it is no wonder you don't see any large elk to shoot.

Top that off with your very ill-mannered accusations of snobbery on the other site, made here and insulting those who I suspect have likely forgotten more about hunting in Africa or any place else, than you will most likely ever know, is the best sign of a POSER that I have ever seen in print!

IMO the height of childish hypocrisy is to go into someone else home and insult the resident's inelegance, expecting him to believe things he knows is not true. As Mike says if a member of another website came on AH and made the ridiculous claims you made here most here would call BS , and justly so!

TAP (<tony a p>) , if you think you have convinced the folks here that you were unfairly called out on your claims, if you want I can retrieve all of your posts there and post them here and see if the rank and file here agrees with you! I doubt the comments here would be so in your favor if they read your posts from the other site.

TAP your claim that that people there claimed to be ultra wealthy, and looked down of you, or tended to only post to show their wealth is a total lie, The claim that accusations were made in private PMs is a very CONVENIENT way of saying something nobody has a way of checking, and your claim in BOLD above I personally do not believe, and IMO is a total lie no other way to say it!

Wow....
I dont know what to say.. But I know people who shoots at 4-500 yards, not on running deer though. I know guys who carry 90 pounds ( and even more ) in their rucksack. I know people who walks 20 miles a day in the hunting season.
My point; I have no reason to not believe Tony tells the truth. So call him a liar are way to harsh IMO!
I have no experience in the other site, so I will not stray down that path. But please maintain it in a civil manner here.

I find it kind of ironic that a post originally commending AH for its lack of infighting has resulted in so much infighting.

Dugaboy1
There are plenty of "dual citizens" among the addicted/dedicated and it is very difficult "get away" with anything on the internet.

Your signature line expresses a very positive and evocative thought.

Mike shared an insightful thought .......

Originally Posted by Mike70560

...............

Before I began writing this I was thinking about some of the BS that is written on all forums including this one. I then began to think about what attracted me to Africa and begin thinking about how lucky I have been to experience safari with my wife. My thoughts then turned to Mr. Owain Lewis and his family, and that I am sorry to have never met him.

Arguing on the internet really does seem petty.

Originally Posted by Diamondhitch

I find it kind of ironic that a post originally commending AH for its lack of infighting has resulted in so much infighting.

i can go along with that sentiment.

i must confess i did go and check out the other site to see if i could see what was going on. i must also confess it was a slightly hurried read, but i dont think tonys first post was out of order, maybe a bit naive or feet first . i think that if you are used to taking part as tony is here on AH, then even if its your first post on another site, you might not hold back as much as if you hadnt partaken anywhere before. this is the first and only site of this type i have used. there were some replies to tony saying if you are happy hunting inside fences then do it, but there also seemed to be an element that straight away seemed to think he was a trouble causer, i think troll was the word. from then on i think it did degenerate into a bit of a slanging match , after which i unfortunately dont think there was any return from. anyway thats how it looked to me.

Gentlemen post that are designed to redeem once reputation when only one side is presented is worthless as evidence, of a honorable reputation. I have been posting on AH for some years, and I simply think anyone who goes into another mans home and redicules the residents is not someone I can place much confidence in!

Certainly if only one side is heard, anyone is prone to believe that story, but present the other side then you will have to make some judgements to find the truth!

It is true that this is a polite website and some of that is not allowing debates to find facts. It is one thing to be polite but quite another to simply believe the defendant without seeing all the evidence. That in my opinion, is not civility but simply being politically correct, and has no value in the real world.

Anyone with any real experience and who practices true sportsmenship does not shoot at unwounded running game at 400yds, case closed.

It is one thing to do that and another to expect others to accept it, and get huffy when it is not accepted, and that is what happened with Tony on the other site. He made his own bed there. The only way to see the other side of this is go to the other site and read the whole thread.

Diamondhitch, I was just thinking the same thing.

Originally Posted by Diamondhitch

I find it kind of ironic that a post originally commending AH for its lack of infighting has resulted in so much infighting.

I have checked out the tread on the other site, that caused all of this fuzz.
I will restrain myself from commenting on the posts made from several of the members, but I do find it provocative that the administrators choose side and take direct part in the discussion. That is a huge NO in such forums IMO.
So I will definitely stick with AH. Thats for sure.

Well being a newbie on here, as well as a member on the other site but never posted on the other site my words may not carry much weight but I have over 4,000 post on Southern Airboat . com and I will say that we have the same problem when it comes to aircraft power or carmotor power on that site, as you will on any hunting forum have the high fence/ low fence argument.

However I will have to say that even though I have not posted on the other site, I have got lots of great info and have used the PM system to help me with my first African Hunt and even as of last night was checking out the Elephant hunt and pm couple guys and got great feedback.

Reading the hunting reports on the other site from the guys that posted a SA style game ranch most replies were very polite, I plan on posting mine on there when I get a minute.

I like the style of AH and the flow is great but could not help but post that Accurate Reloading is a great site as well with lots of great memebers, maybe that is why I asked on this public forum my questions, more user friendly for ranch hunts.

So lets stay on track and brag about how much we love Africa Hunting .com and leave out trying to put another site down. each their on, if it bothers you move on, no one makes you read anyone's post or go to a site. It you go to another site looking for trouble most of the time you may find it,

Great site and glad to play here Africa Hunting !!!!!!!!!!!!

No problems. As I said I stick with AH.