Zambia seems to be following Botswana

Anyone know if this effects private property or just government lands?

Originally Posted by sestoppelman

Politics! Greasing of the palms. Who has the most squeeze? Baksheesh! Plus the environmental movement in force. Before long this will be happening all over Africa. We may be witnessing the beginning of the end.

Sure hope not! I am getting pretty pessimistic about the general direction the world is taking, especially here in the USA, the Union of Stupid Assholes!

It's hard to not be pessimistic, we are outnumbered by idiots sestoppelman and there is no culling allowed. Not a bright future for guys like you and me, we don't have the mentality to change and lose all of our common sense.

Brickburn, your answers are 100%!

I know that we have all tried to convert someone sitting on the fence in regards to pro or anti hunting and we must continue to do this. Something that we are horribly failing at is in the positive PR of hunting in general. I hate to say it but us hunters (the educated ones) we have hardly painted a good picture of our pursuit, sport, recreation, whatever we want to call it. I love a great picture of a guy with his first African animal, I have been their and understand the feelings of taking that animals life, but Ms So&So feels it is offensive and we need a new approach to try and win over a society that has become obsessed with its kids never knowing about hunger or death.
I think back to the original film production of Percy Fitz Patricks' novel "Jock of the Bushveld" there was no sugar coating the hunting scenes or Jock living to fight another day. We have let an over protective group of individuals skew the world we live in and we have sat back hoping that by some miracle the anti hunting fraternity will see the light when it comes to the actual management of animal populations. Here is where us as hunters have to find a way that we can squeeze into the antis populist notions and start teaching people what it really means to look after a species as opposed to an individual animal. How this can be accomplished, I have no idea, but the people that we have representing us at professional association and club level will need to stoop to a level where we can construct a society that is open to the fact that we are the top predator, we where given a pair of canines for a reason and that we dont go down on one knee so that we can negotiate with our children.
Yes I am pissed off that there are now 4 countries in Africa that have been hijacked by the anti hunting fraternity! Let us as a group of hunters and Huntresses take a new approach to the positive marketing of hunting to the idle minded masses who so quickly part with their money because some wolf with a name needs more space to live...

Originally Posted by TOM

Anyone know if this effects private property or just government lands?

Tom just govnt concessions.

Patrick zambia hasnt been hi jacked by the anti hunting fraternity. this is the result of a group of people who had been granted concessions against the rules of the tendering process. you are only allowed to have the lease for one hunting area (this in the past has changed after the allocations with people buying/subletting areas). you are not allowed to be a director/ shareholder/partner etc in several companies tendering for different areas, and this is what happened with one group/family whatever you want to call it, who i believe were listed for 6 areas. this is one of the reasons behind the cancellation of the tender and allocation process. from talking to people in zambia i am hoping that there will be light at the end of the tunnel, but as its africa we know anything can happen. i do believe that the problems will be sorted and hunting in govnt areas will resume, the problem is how long this will take.

Spike.t, you are quite correct. I have been following the press in this regard (Not that there is much). I am just worried that this is giving the antis a foot in the door so to speak, as I am on a couple of other forums where, lets say, folk are a little more closed minded than AH and the way that they are carrying on it sounds that they are trying to swing this corrupt tendering process in their favour. I dont see hunting being banned outright, to much money at stake for the local communities but Bots was the same. On that note I heard from a PH/Outfitter buddy of mine that elephant would still be open in Botswana, it sounds like it could be a few years... we will have to wait and see.

patrick the difference as you know with botswana and zambia is that botwana has always been a fairly affluent country compared to the other african countries, and hunting brings in money but not to the extent it features in countries such as zambia. the hunting operators in zambia do a lot to assist the local communities and also give a percentage of the game meat shot to them. the chiefs and tribal councils like to have a say in who is hunting their areas, and the chiefs hold quite a bit of power in zambia, and this was another thing that wasnt taken into consideration in these tender processes. a lot of the hunting areas in zambia are no good for photographic people anyway, and i think the minister knows that there will be a lot of pi--ed off people who wont be getting any work etc from the hunting companies, and that means no votes.......

Thanks for your responses so far, guys! I feared that there were no great reasons behind these moves, but I had to ask since I am unfamiliar with how these countries operate. As a wildlife biologist, it GREATLY ticks me off that so many decisions about wildlife - all over the world - are made by people who have no real, tangible knowledge of the subject.

Zambia will be sorted soon, and hunting will continue...

Originally Posted by NDwildlifebio

Thanks for your responses so far, guys! I feared that there were no great reasons behind these moves, but I had to ask since I am unfamiliar with how these countries operate. As a wildlife biologist, it GREATLY ticks me off that so many decisions about wildlife - all over the world - are made by people who have no real, tangible knowledge of the subject.

Why would you use knowledge based decision making. Science? Just silly. Humpf!

Originally Posted by Jaco Strauss

Zambia will be sorted soon, and hunting will continue...

I agree. Things here in Dallas seem to be somewhat optimistic about hunting in Zambia. Some think they are just re-organizing the system and trying to make sure Zambians are the benefactors of their wildlife. I don't see a major problem with that as long as it's done properly.

there was a meeting today and i have been told that even if/when hunting resumes in zambia, lion and leopard will not be allowed to be hunted. there are more meetings thurs and friday ,(maybe during the discussions things can be changed) after which supposedly an announcement on the future of hunting in zambia will be revealed. so not good.

Originally Posted by spike.t

there was a meeting today and i have been told that even if/when hunting resumes in zambia, lion and leopard will not be allowed to be hunted. there are more meetings thurs and friday ,(maybe during the discussions things can be changed) after which supposedly an announcement on the future of hunting in zambia will be revealed. so not good.

No not so good. Unbelievable, is more like it. I can't even come up with a wise ass comment right now. Give me a few minutes.

I never shocked when lion and leopard hunting are shut down. They are always the first to be shut down "by a non-hunting" adgenda.
How many millions of $$$ is Botswana losing out by shutting down cat hunting years ago, these decisions don't make sense.

I always wonder how people rationalize their twisted views on life, myself and my brother have sat around a campfire many evenings to discuss the demise or rather the future of Leopard in Africa, for some reason hunters carry the brunt if the wrath dished out by green groups, but I have a question that still remain...

There are laws that control hunting and import and export of species such as leopard, so we are bound by regulation and follow these with perfection.....

Who controls the cattle and goat farmers who slaughter more than 10 times the annual hunting quota per country, would a serious educational drive not be the most obvious route to follow amongst farmers like these???

Don't know just a thought.

My best always

Jaco you want twisted rationale, this i was told is the reason why there will be no lion or leopard hunting, it is because the minister likes cats.....

If thats the case then most of the outfitters in the Kafue wont be in business anymore! The hunting of Lion and Leopard is where they make there profit.

Originally Posted by Dave Freeburn

If thats the case then most of the outfitters in the Kafue wont be in business anymore! The hunting of Lion and Leopard is where they make there profit.

yup dave it makes zambia a bit of a glorified plains game area.........

it has been said that hunting can continue on private land as long as it is fenced, animal ownership documents, required govnt documents etc are in order, and you are a member of the wildlife producers association of zambia , then you can continue hunting.

Hey Mike , you might have to sell some hunts at SCI now!

Originally Posted by Dave Freeburn

Hey Mike , you might have to sell some hunts at SCI now!

jeez does that mean i have to go to bed before 5am?????????