An illegal trophy hunt of a leopard implicating a South African hunter is being investigated by Namibian authorities
This is a discussion on An illegal trophy hunt of a leopard implicating a South African hunter is being investigated by Namibian authorities within the Latest Hunting News forums, part of the Hunting Forums - Main category; thats the truth, i speak not of what i dont know! that should appy to others asswell!...
thats the truth, i speak not of what i dont know!
that should appy to others asswell!
10-03-2011, 01:39 PM #22
- Member of Northeast Wisconsin SCI chapter, Lifetime member of NRA,RMEF
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To be fair there are always two sides to the story of everything!
Money being the root of all deceit and evil for the most part. I think everyone has to see the permit in hand before any hunt starts....lesson learned by everyone! If everyone was on the up and up this would not happen.
When your story is published Charl...post it on here.
10-06-2011, 09:35 AM #23
Official NAPHA Statement in regards to the comments made by Charl Kemp on the AH forum
I am posting this on the request of NAPHA who contacted me by email.
Below please find the official NAPHA Statement in regards to the comments made by Charl Kemp on the AH forum.
"Charl Kemp is not a member of the Namibia Professional Hunting Association (NAPHA) and neither NAPHA nor our Disciplinary Committee supports the doings of Mr. C. Kemp in regards to trophy hunting in Namibia."
Jerome Philippe, Founder of AfricaHunting.com
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10-06-2011, 10:00 AM #24
- Member of Northeast Wisconsin SCI chapter, Lifetime member of NRA,RMEF
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Thanks for the post Jerome.
10-06-2011, 10:32 AM #25
- Member of NRA, ATA, PITA, NAHC, NAFC, DU, TU, DSC, SCI, RMEF
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I have spoken to a few PH'S and they are members of the Professional organization of there home country, however they guide in other countries with out a PH license. Some are and some are not a very grey area...
There is a lot of traveling by some PH'S between countries and from what i have been told, that as long as they are working under a License PH from the country that they are hunting (guiding) in that they are legal. (the more that one PH in a camp)
With the increase in Professional license cost for foreign PH'S escalating the PH'S have gone the route of working under a License PH from the country that they have contracted a hunting safari. I have read this in magazines written by some well known PH'S. When one guides in 4 to 5 countries as they explain it, the PH license cost is not off set unless they are guiding that cpuntry for most of the hunting season.
James Grage - New Mexico
Hold a steady Eye & Rifle...
"Very few of the so-called liberals are open-minded...they shout you down and won't let you speak if you disagree with them." John Wayne
Never did i/we say we are registered ph's in namibia, nor did we say i do trophy hunting myself, we act mere as agents, and we promote hunting in namibia, if anyone still wants to know anything, please just ask me, we do marketting and promoting and act as agents, nothing else, we use ph's in namibia legally who do our hunts thats have been booked, we only do ph ourselves in SA where we are licenced, and Namibians can not guide in SA aswell,
I have discussed the issue with Mr Ling from Napha, he is on the disciplinary commity, so please ask me any questions and i will discuss it with Mr Ling.
He said they are greatfull for us promoting Namibia, and they do not want to keep us away from the country, as with all other south africans,
As a licensed PH in SA you should know that this paperwork is required to be completed and in place before any hunt takes place.
Please provide a copy of your outfitters license and PH license from the specific province in SA.
I have also attached the CONDITIONS FOR LARGE CARNIVORE PERMITS IN NAMIBIA FYI.
Conditions for leopard,cheetah and lion-4.jpg
Conditions for leopard,cheetah and lion-3.jpg
Conditions for leopard,cheetah and lion-2.jpg
Conditions for leopard,cheetah and lion-1.jpg
Invitation to hunt-2.jpg
Application to hunt for trophies-2.jpg
Application to hunt for trophies-1.jpg
Application - leopard quota-1.jpg
Conditions for leopard,cheetah and lion-5.jpg
12-12-2011, 02:05 PM #28
strange enough namibian hunting authorities are against south african hunters, should SA do the same then with Namibian hunters, be anti namibian, it has become a fight lately "of our country is better than yours and vice versa".
Lately south african hunters have taken new records of cheetah and cape eland in namibia, so im just not sure if some are jelous or whats the problem, cause some vibes being sent from napha was that south african hunters cause problems in Namibia.
Even them going so far as to investigate if the eland hunted was legal or not, i just think its unfair for some namibian hunting community members to be so against sa hunters in general, should SA authorities not do the same with namibian hunters coming to hunt in SA? investigate if they hunt legal or not , just the same treatment given to sa hunters given back to namibian hunters?
12-12-2011, 10:43 PM #29
Hi guys I am trying to be fair, Does Nam ordinance prohibit a non resident from being and outfitter?, (if not major loop hole in Nam ordinance!!!)
If they do, are agents not forced by law to use a Resident Namibian outfitter? (if not major loop whole in Nam ordinance!!!!!!)
If Ph's are allowed to temporarily act as so called outfitters on behalf of foreign based agents as in this case? (major loop hole in Nam ordinance!!!)
I belive that if the mentioned party was recognised by Namibian Authorities to be a Outfitter in Namibia that they should be directly responsible for the Leopard paperwork, HOWEVER, should they be regarded as agents (by law) meaning that they would have to use a resident outfitting comapny/Ph acting temporarily as an outfitter surely the latter should be held accountable?? I saw in Jerome's starting thread that the mentioned party operated under a certain name in Namibia (does this mean they are registered outfitters or just agents)?
I do allot of hunting in Zim, Mozie Bots and Tanzania, but work with registered outfitters and PH's in the mentioned countries, it has come to the stage that I request my registered PH in the mentioned countries from such outfitters to conduct the hunt with my client(make no mistake even these well known registered PH's make me part of my clients hunt and respect me as a fellow profesional as I do them (within regulation) but they carry the responsibillity) Should anything be missing on TR2's or Cities permits or any paperwork for that matter not be present when and where it should be I surely can not be held accountable.
I would be interested in knowing how this set up works in Namibia, maybe on of the outfitters in Nam can enlighten me as to how the ordinance works. Very interesting helps to know as much as you can.
My best always.
5c worth here!
If you are a hunt operator / outfitter, it is your business (and the law) to be fully 'au fait' with the legal requirements of the countries and properties on which you conduct your safari's. It is a crucial part of your business to check that all the paperwork is in order. It is the PH's responsibility to check that he has all the relevant papers before conducting a safari. He too has to know the laws governing his trade.
You cannot claim ignorance when you're caught!
Not perhaps you specifically Charl, but too many Operators like to run under the radar in african countries where they figure they're smarter than everyone else and we fight against unscrupulous unethical immoral business people all the time.
It's about time that all the 'slap gat' people out there were forced to clean up their act or get out of the trade! They give an honorable sport (business) a bad name!
12-12-2011, 11:58 PM #32
My point is simple, if you are a so called agent Outfitters are responsible for paperwork, (right or wrong?) If he was the outfitter he is responsible for the paperwork its that simple, outfitters can not hide behind agents stating that it was the agents, client and he should have had the foresight to get all paperwork in order.
IT IS THE OUTFITTERS, AND PROFESSIONAL HUNTER RESPONSIBILITY TO SEE THAT ALL IS ABOVE BOARD AND THEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. The happenings in this case is unclear as we do no that the mentioned entity did not conduct the hunt it was done by a registered PH, but it is also nowhere stated that theyb are or are not a registered outfitting comany or booking agency.
If I was to book a hunt on Ruaha 2 with my client and have a wonderfull safari, (not being registered in Tanzania) through an outfitter, and the Ellie paperwork is not in order surely the outfitter should be held accountable, the best I can do as an so called agent is to follow up but do you ever really know????? If the bomb explodes I would plead ignorance as I was told that all was in order. I really dont belive it is as cut and dry as guys are trying to make it.
Only once all the fact are on the table here one would be able to make an accurate conclusion as to what was the goings on and whos to blame.
Kemp, who conducts hunts in Namibia through Namibia Pro Hunting & Safaris, said this week that he is assisting the Police with their investigation 澱ecause I am innocent?
的 have a hunting operation in Namibia. I may not hunt leopard in Namibia without a PH from Namibia present. I approached a PH to accompany the American on the hunt. The PH neglected to obtain the permits after we paid him, Kemp alleged.
Charl you claim you are an Agent and nothing more! How do the above bits sit with you then?
Kemp rubbished the allegation, claiming that he paid a Namibian professional hunter (PH) N$10 000 for the day. He claimed that his payment should have ensured that a legal permit be obtained by the PH. He could not explain why he did not check with the PH on the day of the hunt whether a permit was granted for the hunt of the protected species.
How do you as an agent employ a PH and pay him directly? This implies that you were the outfitter!
Sounds perfidious to me!
12-13-2011, 12:15 AM #34
12-13-2011, 12:44 AM #35
well it was a south african ph and outfitter that approached Mr Kemp for the hunt, so he mere acted as the middle man, like i said a agent, he contacted the people he know who are ph's to do all the hunts on a registered hunting farm.
and as far as i know did the south african outfitter, a certain elmari lady, conducted the hunt on request to the namibian ph cause she wanted to guide her client, with the namibian ph who so called now acted as dog handler, she also did all the payments to the farm owner, ph's, and dogs owner herself.
In the end mr kemp paid a fine of R4000 for acting as so called ph, but mr kemp was present on the hunting vehicle when the hunt took place, so i really think all thats blaming mr kemp, should re check their facts.
as far as i know did the namibian ph (so called dog handler) refuse to take pictures with the hunter, and after the hunt, he just disapperead and when he was called about the permit he arranged, he didnt answer his phone, and kept avoiding elmari and mr kemp's calls( he also paid a R4000 fine) easy way of making
R10 000 he charged for a very very short lived hunt, not to forget R15 000 paid to the owner of the dogs (also a ph) who also played a big part in arranging the hunt, arranging the farm where a leopard has already been coming in regularly.
and what shocked me was when i heard that within half an hour of leaving the farm house, and the hunt started, the leopard was shot, already sitting up in the tree when they got to him......????????????
isnt that a bit quick? i have heard of some methods being used in the past which are illegal to hunt leopard..
the point im trying to make is that napha made lots of statements about mr kemp and his son, (his son was not even present in namibia at the time of the hunt)
but never did elmari, nor the farm owner get fines who also received huge amounts of money, it was also found out later that the arranged farm, the owner a very elderly man, did not a have a permit to shoot a leopard, but this was the arrangment of the dogs owner(ph), so in all fairness, elmari who did all the payments directly to all parties involved, why didnt she check the paper work, as she was the official outfitter of the hunter and delt directly with the namibian ph's and farm owner's.
My question is:
shouldnt the farm owner who received alot of money aswell, and had no permit, and elmari the outfitter, not have received fines aswell?
Nam hunter....this whole thing stinks! It appears Everyone who was involved had knowledge of the illegality of the proceedings! Dare I say including the client?!!
12-13-2011, 01:33 AM #37
iyes it does leave a bad taste in your mouth, mr kemp did all he was supposed to, the original hunt was a plainsgame hunt, no problems there, all permits and ph's and everything was in order, but then elmari approached mr Kemp for a possible leopard hunt,if he could possibly get one, the farm owner at that time where they were hunting referred them to the two namibian ph's involved, he contacted them and they arranged everything further with elmari the SA outfitter,they said the farm owner had a permit for a leopard and that the one ph, gideon, was registered on the farm, and would take out the hunting permit for the hunter as he is the only one that can do that. which was found out later that in all 3 cases it wasnt the truth
mr Kemp joined in the hunt purely for the pleasure of going with on a leopard hunt, which was his first aswell, also very exciting, all though he stayed on the vehicle when the hunt took place.
i just think that this was an opportunity seen to make a quick buck by the namibian ph's, i think if mr Kemp wanted to hunt that leopard illegally, why would he then have the SA outfitter )elmari) hire the ph's to do the hunt.
He could have told her to do the hunt just herself, (she could have just asswell) and then saved that money for ph costs. (R25 000)
Nor the client, or the outfitter or mr kemp knew about these doings, only found out after the rushed hunt took place and money was paid.
Eish this is a convoluted story!
At the end of the day then from what you say, the namibian PH's are at fault?! If that's the case then Mr Kemp doesn't articulate himself very well and tends to incriminate himself by not explaining very clearly - as I pulled from his quotes!
Do Namibian hunts not have to go through a registered safari outfitter when foreign clients are involved?
12-13-2011, 02:00 AM #39
- Hunted South Africa (Limpopo, Free-State, North West, Northern Cape) and Botswana (Tuli Area; Selebi-Pikwe, and Tsabong regions)
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The claim that he paid the PH therefore everything is now the fault of the PH not getting the required permits is an absurd statement, to say the least. How can one pay the PH then continue with the hunt without verifying that the permits are in place? That's a flimsy attempt to redirect his lack in responsibilty and misconduct to other parties, and if such a claim can hold in a courtroom and sway the case in his favour, then I would have no faith in the legal authorities that conducted the investigation.
But, it's also fair that everybody is treated as innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt...but still, I think its quite clear what happened.
12-13-2011, 02:18 AM #40
yes if one hunt with clients in namibia you have to use registered hunting farms and ph's
what i am trying to say is, mr kemp was also wrong by not checking the documents, which he felt was the SA outfitters work as it was her clients, but what napha and the the news papers have done is put all and most of the blame on mr kemp, mr kemp made exatly R1500 from the leopard hunt, as this was a hunt that elmari arranged with the ph's herself, mr kemp just drove them there, from grootfontein to okahandja and back,
i just think in all fairness everybody involved should have received a fine, and all parties involved in the leopard hunt, should have payed back the money they received.
but napha kept on hammering on the fact that it was a south african hunter, and they wanted to make an example of him, cause (south african come and corrupt namibias hunting industry)
napha handled mr as a criminal, but why not the other parties involved, while on a hunting trip for himself, this year, police came and forced mr kemp to give up his passport, and report to okahandja police immediately, which was illegal, they had no right to seize his passport and detain him.
all this was instigated by napha, why not the same treatment for all parties involved, especially namibian parties involved.
as soon as mr kemp contacted an attorney in windhoek and he phoned them, they immediately gave back mr kemps passport and released him and asked nicely not to lay charges, as they were in the wrong.
also the investigating officer said that they didnt want to drag the farm owner where the leopard was shot as he was an old man, and they were sorry for him (affraid his heart wouldnt take it) .....but he received the biggest amount of money,(although no permit and no fine?) i didnt know that age can prevent you from being dragged into a court case.
and in the whole process, not one word about elmari's participation on the leopard hunt, again a person from napha pushing on it was mr kemp, he is the guilty party.
why didnt napha ask for all parties involved to pay back the money?
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