2013 lion hunt
trying to help a friend find two of the following package with the attached requirements.
1 x lion
1 x hippo
1 x croc
1 x buffalo
1 of the above packages for each of the hunters. 1x1 ph for each. (2 hunters total)
trophy requirements. both lions must be open concession lions and have very full manes.
1 croc must be at least 14 feet
buff must be over 40 inches
hippo I'm guessing must be able to make big terds(?????)
any offers per hunt package even nearing $60,000 each won't be considered
Hunt is for 2013
If you laugh at the idea of taking an open concession lion with a full mane then consider the following. In 2008 he swears he was hunting the matetsi and saw several lions with massive manes crossing the river on several occasions. I have a hard time believing that but he has never lied to me before. I don't know what he saw in the matetsi but whatever it was is the type of lion he desperately wants to hunt. He has specifically told me to contact martin pieters as I met him in vegas last year and I genuinely trust the guy.
First preference will be given to Martin Pieters and any offers extended on here will be run by Jerome and any personell with slight discrepancies in their past wont be considered. Jerome's opinion will definitely be a major deciding factor.
Finally, the safari (if picked) must be able to accomodate a private corporate jet aka a longer and smoother runway than normal. This isn't a deal breaker but the clients really dont want to mess with publice airports.
Finally, this hunt is for one of my best friends. I know his requirements are a bit wishful and lofty to say the least but he asked me for my help and I will do my best to help this man out. If someone has such a hunt and can produce said results for both hunters I will put you in contact with this man and it is then up to you to convince him you are not a crook and can produce what you say you can
Can this be in 2 different countries...
Like South Africa and Mozambique
James, the way I look at it is that if my friend wants a croc over 14 foot and a large maned lion that isn't high fenced he is going to have to split it up and hunt in at least 2 different places. I know where he can get 15 foot plus crocs in mozambique. buffalo over 45" in South Africa bordering the kruger but what I don't know is where you would get a free range lion on open concession with a large mane. I really don't think they exist but he assures me that he saw them crossing the river beds in the matetsi in 2007 or 2008 or whenever it was when he went. I think if someone could come up with a matetsi lion permit they might have the winning combo as he has personal on the ground experience there. I'm pretty sure he would be fine hunting two separate areas though.
TAP, if he knows where he saw them he should just put his finger on the map and find the guy who owns the concession this year or next and contact him or make arrangements to have his own ZPHGA member conduct the hunt.
One way or the other he is going to be on a small plane that is not a jet to get close to the hunting area.
Paving seems to be a luxury in most safari camps. :)
If the Matetsi is where he'd like to hunt, you may want to point your friend in the direction of HHK Safaris and Lou Hallamore as his PH. I believe that Tim Farren, an AH member, books for HHK. On the home page at the link to Tim's website is a picture of Tim and Lou if I'm not mistaken. Lou is the bearded gent to Tim's right.
I would have to say however that your friend would probably be looking at $50K for a lion and I'd be surprised if at this point there would still be lions available on license.
Arranging hunting safaris for the big five and plains game throughout Africa -- This is Tim's Link
HHK Safaris :: Home
I think that if someone told him he would be hunting a very large maned lion that he may be willing to pay more. All I know is that we compete together in the same business and this guy is one hard SOB to deal with when you start talking money. Good as gold but definitely stretches his pennies.
The reason he doesn't go back to the concession to where he was hunting is because he was sold a lion hunt for there. When he arrived he found out that the blacks took over the concession and that most of what they sold him was a lie to hook him into the hunt. They never had a lion on quota and he wasn't impressed with the operation at all. He swears that he has had enough business dealings in africa that if he finds out he is dealing with a black that he will go elsewhere as he has only been lied to in the past and does not trust them.
I've only been to Africa twice and I'm no expert on the game in question here. But, is it even the least bit reasonable to have this list of specifications for the hunt and put a $60K cap on it? I'm pretty damn demanding, but when I'm asking for something incredible, I am willing to pay market rates.
Bargains are to be had, but they are generally a cancellation or an extra animal, etc. Few and far between are the "here is my demanding and specific list and I need you to sell it to me at a ridiculously low price" hunts. You should advise him to leave out the requirement for a runway sufficient for his personal jet until after the price has been negotiated.
Lets look at this a little more practical if you guys will. The guy owns his own personal jet. its a falcon and 2 yrs old. his brother has 2 and a corporate helicopter. I won't go into detail on the specifics of their lifestyle but I'm pretty sure he could afford the entire quota for the african continent for a year and not flinch. It doesn't mean he's not a tight wad. I'm only conveying his wish's. Lets go out on a limb and just get quotes for both large maned lion and your regular scragly lion. Maybe once he sees the two compared side by side he will budge on his price.
I'm just a messenger he guys so go a little easy on me.
Good areas do not come cheap, I do hope that he is able to get onto a good area for his proposed budget.
My best always.
Well I wasn't going to go there when you mentioned the jet in your original post. But you've kind of opened it up now. My thought initially followed your last post, if he can afford a frickin' private plane why is he trying to do a lion hunt on the cheap? I would liken this to owning a Ferrari and when it's time to change the oil taking it down to JiffyLube to have the work done or something crazy like that.
Originally Posted by tap
I've seen this kind of thinking result in bad hunt reports and have come to the conclusion that a cheap hunt is just that, a cheap hunt. I think it comes from this idea that as much as your average DG hunt costs, and it's certainly not cheap, that that somehow translates into a ridiculously high profit margin and you're somehow getting ripped off.
So if you get a really spectacular deal in comparison to others, unless it's a cancellation hunt, one needs to be wary of what they're getting. A cheap hunt can easily end up being a very expensive hike in the bush.
Another comparison that Mark Young made for me was in respect to Leopard hunting. I don't remember his exact words, but it was something along the line of you can pay $24K and go to Zambia and most likely you'll get your cat. Or you can save $5-10K and go somewhere else. You may get your leopard, but if you don't how long will it be before you can afford another or will you even go again? The point being of course, save a little longer, spend a bit more and maximize your chances.
To put this in a little perspective
If they are coming by jet from Europe or the States it is going to have to be something heavy, puddle jumping all the way in even a big Cessna or Lear is just impractical
So lets assume a Gulfstream, probably a G550 but maybe just a IV or V
10 -12 hours South from continental Europe at $4,500/hr then accommodations for crew, special customs clearing,
security on the ground and then 10-12 hours back to Europe
Expect to know a hole in about $125,000 if they are headed back to the States tack on another 90G's
With lunch and some shopping I think we have burnt through 1/4 mil.
Now, don't get me wrong, it is a nice ride and oh so comfortable and convenient
but, before you light up the company plane, try this
Park the Gulfstream, fly first class commercial and spend the difference hunting like a KING
Understand, just my opinion
Far far far above my pay grade SW!
Chifuti may be a good option. They kill some good lions, have the buffalo, crocs, and hippo. Chewore is a 100% free ranging area. I am sure they are booking hunts right now, but are probably presently a little preoccupied with the recent death of Owain Lewis. They could speak to their trophy size on crocs but I would guess 14' is stretching it a little. They may even be able to make the budget. Baiting cost can be substantial on that type of lion hunt.
Chifuti Hunting Safaris - African Safaris for Cape Buffalo, Leopard, Lion, Elephant, and Plains Game along the Zambezi River in Zimbabwe Africa.
A combination hunt of lion/buffalo in Matetsi and charter over to the Omay for croc and hippo with Martin Pieters would probably yield better trophies. As Phil said, AH member Tim Farren books for Matetsi One. He is a stand up guy. I shared a camp with him in 2010 and enjoyed the experience. Lake Kariba yields some monster croc and hippos.
Martin is hunting and can be reached by email. He will probably be gone for two weeks.
The problem with this combo is cost and availibilty. The lion/buffalo day rate at Matetsi One is $2500 for 21 days plus $10,000 trophy fee. That is over $60,000 plus bait and you have not shot your croc or hippo. I would be surprised if HHK or Mabalengwa have lion remaining on quota in Matetsi for 2013 as the tags are extremely limited and they are beautiful lion.
Be careful in some of the other Matetsi areas, there are a lot of shenanigans going on over there.
There are some great lions taken off Bubye Valley Conservancy also, even though it is a 1600 square mile concession, it is fenced on the perimeter and a lion hunt there cost as much as Matetsi.
Unfortunately there are very few cheap lion lion hunts. There are plenty that turn in to very expensive plainsgame hunts.
Good luck in your quest.
SW, Not so bad if the company is paying for lunch etc.
Mike, Everyones nightmare - the ultra expensive plains game hunt.
Wonder if they'll right a hunt report?
Gentlemen, As a retired pilot of corporate and airline jets for 40 years, I can weigh in on the owners of such. They didn't get their jets by throwing away money. Many times they are very tight wad when it comes to parting with money (travel style aside). On the other hand knowing what I know about Falcon jets, he won't be able to travel to the hunting areas completely by Falcon jet. It just ain't going to happen. I can understand his reluctance to an open ended pricing schedule but the 60K top is way too low for what he is asking. I can also understand Taps position as the "carrier of the news" and I have sympathy for his situation. He's only trying to help someone out. Tap, I wish you well and I have forwarded your request to someone I know who is eminently honest in his safari dealings. Whether he wants to offer anything for this request will have to wait a few days as he is on a lion hunt right now. He specializes in big stuff so maybe it's something he will want to look at.
My books are telling me that even if he is riding a 900 series he is going to be short on range and frequent on stops
If he is in a 50 he is in really worse shape
Below that it is going to be a flog and not something I would be game for
and anyone will tell you, I am pretty gamey
..jeez, Tap, I'm not fussy..can't I also be a best friends..pleeeeez..! :tongue:
Originally Posted by tap
Ok maybe this will help. the guy who owns the plane is in bad shape. He's not terribly old but very over weight. He wants to do this hunt before he cant. The second hunter is also a guy I work with and workout with on a regular basis at the gym. client number 1 is paying for client number 2's entire hunt. I know lucky him. I would beg to go but as I have rigs that have worked on many of his oil wells I don't want to mess with a good relationship. Now, the client getting a free hunt is looking for a bargain. I have helped him find a hunt for 1 hippo, 1 croc, 1 buffalo, and 1 lion for $48,500. The lion I know would not have much of a mane. I'm thinking if you guys could come up with quotes and defend them then maybe I could hook them up with their dream hunt. I am pretty sure that the matetsi is a place that could hold such lions. However the daily rates are $2,500 per day which puts the hunt at $50,000 just to start. I guess what we both need is a little education on why some lion hunts sell for cheap and others are so high. If it is the quality I will explain it to them best I can. I also talked with them and they said they have to stop for customs at major airports and will be putting the jet up for storage there and jumping onto a bush plane. I'm not sure which jet they will fly but he said it will fly non-stop from north america to paris and then paris to southern africa. Hope this clears things up a bit. The guys however are extremely nice guys. I can honestly say they are one of the few customers I have that I actually look forward to spending time with. The rest have more money than sense and have egos to match.
I would think the best way for your friends to find a quality lion hunt but at a discount would be to put their names on the "willing to go in a moment's notice" list. When short notice cancellations come up, the hunts usually are discounted by the amount of the deposit that the hunter had to forfeit. But they have to be able to make plans fast and go.
EDIT: This may in fact be the only way they find a quality lion hunt at this point as I'm guessing most if not all of these licenses are already spoken for.
secondwind you're correct on the 900 and 50 Falcon A couple of stops to get there but it won't matter much in that travel venue. Tap, I understand your position and that's why I forwarded your request to someone I trust implicitly. I've dealt with folks from the jet/carriage trade for decades and understand them. You have a good lock on how to handle things I hope it works out for all involved. I'm eating my heart out that it's not me receiving the trip.