What do you consider disrespectful trophy pictures?
This is a discussion on What do you consider disrespectful trophy pictures? within the Hunting Pictures forums, part of the Hunting Forums - Hunting in Africa category; What do you consider disrespectful trophy pictures? AfricaHunting.com's logo portrays the traditional pose of the proud hunter squatting beside his ...
04-27-2011, 10:11 PM #1
What do you consider disrespectful trophy pictures?
What do you consider disrespectful trophy pictures?
AfricaHunting.com's logo portrays the traditional pose of the proud hunter squatting beside his trophy waiting to have his picture taken. Can leaning, sitting, laying, squatting, standing, riding or having a foot on the trophy for a photo be disrespectful to the animal?
We have all seen a picture of a hunter posing with their trophy which questioned our thoughts on whether it was demeaning to the animal or not... Myself received on a couple of occasions comments from members telling me that they did not approve of a particular trophy photo posted in the forum as the hunter was posing "inappropriately" with their trophy and requested for the pictures to be removed.
The SCI Safari Magazine advertising content guidelines clearly states that the Publications will not publish advertising containing certain characteristics and among the types of advertising that are rejected are ads that might appear to be disrespectful of wildlife. I don't know where they draw the line and understand the use of such verbiage, but I also can see how every hunter has his own opinion when it comes to etiquette when posing with their trophy.
Vintage safari photographs clearly depict some of these poses, and for some of us they have been a great source of inspiration and example. These black and white trophy photos with their hunters, sometimes famous, posing proudly in various manners which may be considered today as inappropriate were emulated by a lot of us. These yesteryear poses, sometimes suggesting heroic triumph, were really a symbol of domination over their query, showing the success of their hunt, the chase conqueror, the triumph of man over beast.
These types of poses are often seen with hunters posing in Africa with one of the Big Five, could an exception be made based on the type of game and can a pose be disrespectful? What is your take and where do you draw the line?
Here are a few examples...
Jerome Philippe, Founder of AfricaHunting.com
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04-27-2011, 10:35 PM #2
Aside from the fact that the anti's will object to ANY pose taken with a dead animal, we as hunters choose how to compose our own trophy pictures. I find usually after taking an animal, some slight if brief remorse, along with the pride and feelings of some accomplishment depending on the degree of difficulty, how well I performed etc. I cannot recall a picture on this site that offended me, though I may in my own pictures make some attempt to not appear too macho, otherwise its up to each of us to take the picture we want and I for one cannot envision myself asking Jerome or anyone else to take a picture down because it may offend my delicate sensibilities. If I dont like a picture, too bloody bad for me. Many African trophy pictures are composed and taken by the PH dont forget, and they make I think a good effort to keep things in good taste.
04-27-2011, 11:07 PM #3
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I won't speak directly to the photos you posted Jerome but will say this. I agree with sestoppelman that it will not matter what kind of photo of a dead animal we may post, it will be found objectionable by the anti's.
Having said that, I do try to be aware of those that are not anti-hunting but are non-hunters. While I don't think we should hide the fact that we hunt, it doesn't seem productive either to me to ignore the impact we may have on non-hunters.
For example, we recently had a non-hunter start up a thread about lion hunting. The gentleman came here looking for information in deciding whether or not hunting was an effective conservation tool. I thought the replies in that thread were fantastic and represented hunters and particularly AH very well. However, how would that thread have gone if somebody had posted a bunch of blood and gore filled pictures from lion hunts?
Another example is from my trip to RSA last year. A number of people in my office were interested in seeing pictures from my trip, including my cube mate. She is not opposed to hunting, but she had no interest in seeing any of my hunting photos either. She was however very interested in my Kruger Park pictures. I'd like to think that she appreciated me separating out those pictures and that I avoided making an anti-hunter out of a non-hunter.
I'm not meaning to put myself on a pedestal here, just saying that I do think we should be cognizant of our actions as hunters and how they may affect the non-hunting population.
04-28-2011, 01:04 AM #4
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I didn't like 1,4,6, 7 the female on the elephant with the slouch hat and flippant attitude was wrong in so many ways and a definant OUT and 12.Time spent in Reconnaisance is never wasted.
04-28-2011, 04:33 AM #5
Very interesting concept this Jerome.
Personally - i think any photo taken on a hunt, whether trophy or for consumption (biltong jag) - reflects the spirit of the hunter at that exact moment. Some hunters shows a victorious pose, some a slight smile, some have no expresssion at all, some a hint of sadness, etc,etc. It is after-all a very personal 'thing' - hunting and killing an animal.
None of the expressions / poses in my view is disrespectful to the hunted animal. It is merely a personal moment frozen in time for memory sake. Only a person who hunts and loves hunting will appreciate viewing personal moments from fellow hunters.
For those who finds any trophy / hunt-posed picture distasteful / disrespectful - don't look - period.
Last edited by fhm3006; 04-28-2011 at 04:56 AM. Reason: Spelling
04-28-2011, 05:04 AM #6
This is exactly whats wrong with society today. Our skin is too thin and are sensibilitys to delicate. Ploitical correctness is killing us from within.
I personally do not begrudge anyone for there trophy pose, or the size, age etc. of the animal. I do maintain a level of repect for the game animals i harvest. Its a personell choice for me.I have walked in the tracks of the elephant, heard the lion roar and met the buffalo on his terms. I shall never be the same.
04-28-2011, 05:31 AM #7
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This is a tough topic Jerome, but a good one as well. After looking at the photos above, I would say that I was not "offended" at any of them, but at the same time I did not like some of them either (woman on the elephant for example). This is a personal choice for me. As far as disrespectful to the animals - this is an even tougher call to make. Judging the level of "respect" that a hunter has for his quarry is very difficult to do based on a picture.
Personally if I don't "like" a picture, I won't look at it again - my issue, nobody else has to worry about it, but I will never judge a hunter's level of "respect" for an animal based solely on a picture.
04-28-2011, 06:39 AM #8
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It is a very personal matter, in my case, I am very respectful of the animals I kill.
And, yes, some of these boastful pictures only help the anti s cause.
04-28-2011, 06:49 AM #9
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04-28-2011, 07:01 AM #10
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ok, I will pitch in. I dont like photos with the hunter on top of the animal. I think it shows disrespect to the animal and it degrades the sport by providing visual proof to its detractors that we are a bunch of blood crazed ego-maniacs. However, that is now. I give those old photos a pardon because of the time period and the relative level of struggle and accomplishment. The Roosevelt safari was a year long, supported by porters on foot and by taking game from the field. Some of those other photos show clear pioneers who survived incredible conditions and peril to take the game. In retrospect, they probably deserved conquering hero status relative to the world they were living in. At least at the time their peers would have thought so.
Today its just different....like it or not. We all try to emulate that past but it is just gone. A hunting trip is a short vacation which allows us to briefly escape the domesticated world we live in and get a breath of the old days. The animals we hunt are managed and groomed to some extent (to what extent is an entirely different discussion between fenced and unfenced hunting). We are not pioneering or conquering and have not really earned such a pose. I think it is taking the fantasy a little too far.
Now, having said that....pose any way that you want as far as I care. I am proud of my hunts and trophies and have never asked anyone how they think i should pose. Of course, I want to protect and preserve the integrity of the sport so it would help if you kept the photos private. No sense giving the other guys a poster child to use at their next convention. I think that is why the SCI has implemented the photo rules.
Thanks Jerome for promoting this discussion.
04-28-2011, 07:45 AM #11
- Member of Northeast Wisconsin SCI chapter, Lifetime member of NRA,RMEF
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I think people have been to removed from the basics of human life. Having grown up on a farm...that is not "normal" now a days. And I think people need to get over themselves. Animals die and so do we. I won't posse a picture with me sitting on a animal for a magazine. But dead is dead. And back then people didn't over think things like people do today. Most people today need to go to the junkyard and butchering plant...and wake up!
I do think in todays wacky world we need to clean as much blood up as possible and posse the animals tastefully because there are more anti-hunters than hunters. Plus the pictures look 100's times better when shown classy! Non-hunters have said to me...love your pictures...you look happy and those animals look beautiful! Smile in the pictures...and mean it!
04-28-2011, 09:04 AM #12
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It is a personal choice and the publisher gets to set policy. Other than that...
It is interesting to me the pictures that were chosen as finalists in the Hartzview contest were ALL without firearms (or other hunting implements) in the picture. None were African species. All were very respectful pictures taken in place where the hunt took place showing the environment of the hunt with the people involved.
Most were in close contact with the animal, holding it or being immediately beside the animal. None were manipulative of perspective. They all told a story.
Looking through the submissions many of the African species trophy pictures included firearm or Bow prominently.
It certainly must be cultural.
The old pictures show how it used to be and they are all dangerous game. So the "triumph" aspect is certainly present. I don't need that myself. I'll remember just fine what I went through without having to illustrate my dominance. I agree with sestoppelman "after taking an animal, some slight if brief remorse, along with the pride and feelings of some accomplishment depending on the degree of difficulty, how well I performed etc."
My two cents: Riding the animal, I find distasteful. (I have not figured out, as yet, how to take a respectful picture of an elephant trophy because of its size.) Blood or large bloody holes are not high on the list. I am not interested in the firearm in the picture unless there is some sentimental attachment to the firearm that is part of the story for me. (grampa's old gun)
The current rage of fake perspective is an attempt to be misleading that I find offensive every time I see it in a trophy picture. The people are not in touch with the real trophy, only trying to appear bigger than they really are . (Perhaps there is a good reason people do not touch the animals in Africa as they are tick infested and you should not touch them, I have no clue).
I hope when I take my pictures to tell a story of the hunt effectively and respectfully.
04-29-2011, 12:50 PM #13
Jerome. I have to say that all hunting photos tells a story. For each hunter and hunting memories, photos are as hunting, so different. The photos you show as examples are more or less fantastic ! Photos on or beside with or without guns.... You have to feel the story behind the photo to understand the full picture.
This is the huge different between photograph and video/DVD.
04-29-2011, 01:47 PM #14
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Ok....we'll just round up all the vilians in the pictures(except Teddy of course) take them out at dawn and string them up by their heels! Oh please lets not over analytical over someones elses photos. Who knows the stupid photo that will be taken of me after my first elephant. Hopefully it won't be published in a international forum. We don't need another reason to divide us from our hunting friends.
04-29-2011, 02:32 PM #15
Brickburn is right on when he points to the "fake perspective" often seen today in pictures. Sitting 6 feet behind the downed trophy in what may be an attempt to make the animal look bigger, is really silly. Whats the bloody point?! A neighbor recently sent me some photos of some supposedly monster size hogs in Europe that weighed like 10 thousand pounds or something. It was obvious the heroes were twenty feet behind the pig! Stupid fakery!
04-29-2011, 04:08 PM #16
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The pictures you posted are of a different era when hunters may of had a different mind set. I have to think in those days that dangerous game was something to be conquer rather than revered and little thought was given to game management etc. I think today most hunters have evolved a little and don't find the macho hairy chested pose necessary. After all the modern hunter is the most important of conservationists and not a conquerer of the wilderness.
I also don't think that cleaning up your trophy and posing it to show the animal in the best light is a concession to the anti hunters at all. It just shows that we as hunters have some respect for the animals we hunt and ourselves.
In back of my chair that I'm sitting in as I type is a picture of the first bear I ever killed. I was so excited I never thought how it looked in the picture. Its tongue is hanging out the side of its mouth and there is blood all over its face. It looks like shit and I think it reflects badly on me and hunters in general. That photo is a reminder to me of how not to do it.Mark H. Young
04-29-2011, 05:03 PM #17
I agree with Mark H Young.
The Trophy picture is a celebration of the animal and should be done mindful with the respect we have for the animals we pursue.
The inclusion of the hunter with his trophy is the tangible link that evokes memories of the experience, the place visited, the poeple involved and the hunt that ensued and should be portrayed in a manner that exhibits the respect we, as hunters, have for the environment and the animals we hunt.
04-29-2011, 06:38 PM #18
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Without passing judgment on past hunters, as depicted in the photos contained herein, I find sitting or leaning or standing on animals disrespectful.
Especially for hunters a century ago, I think they had more to boast about. Perhaps I'm overstating it when I say firearm technology has come a long way and we have a greater advantage now than they did back in the days of black powder or cordite, but I don't think so. That, and the world, in general, was just a more wild and savage place.
Our sensibilities have changed over the years. We are different now than prior generations and I think it effects how we view things. Again, this said, I'm not passing judgment on any of those hunters in the photos. That was then, this is now, and as for my tastes, I just personally prefer the modern pose, squatting next to or behind the animal.
Oh, and I don't like the attempts to make the animal appear bigger in relation to the hunter than it really is. That smacks of vanity. It's just a personal thing. Keep it simple.
04-29-2011, 07:33 PM #19
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It's your trophy, pose how you want; just don't make it public if it could remotely be found insulting by a fellow hunter. The whole point of a trophy is to be proud of it and proud to show it off.
05-31-2011, 11:09 AM #20
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Its hard to say anything disrespectfull of Teddy. We owe him so much.
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