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Shooting Without Permission From The PH

This is a discussion on Shooting Without Permission From The PH within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the HUNT AFRICA category; Shooting without permission from the PH is something i do not condone at all!!! If it ever happened with me, ...

  1. #1
    Shallom's Avatar
    Shallom is online now AH Enthusiast
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    Shooting without permission from the PH is something i do not condone at all!!! If it ever happened with me, I would not be very happy and would probably implement the law if it were something that went against my ethics.

    Someone did that with me on a lion hunt once and the background was that he had hunted the cat four times previously without any success and lost a lot of money on his pursuits. That is when he was directed to us and on the fifth attempt he actually put up his house on a facility to enable him to make a final attempt at a lion...

    Well I was well aware of the background story and needless to say, the pressure was on, but i was confident and we played with many lions in the first few days. But the one i wanted him to get, was not cooperating. I knew i could out-smart him and we had time on our side. But the guest thought otherwise - one afternoon, we flushed out a young lion and as i was scannig to see whether there was anything else worth looking at, the client drew his rifle and shot the lion who was looking at us from the tall grass.

    I was pissed off to say the least and had to deal with an unwanted wounded lion in the tall grass. We got him eventually... after as few from the double. So the man got his lion - I was even more pissed off! It was a young male with very little mane and a lot of reproduction in him still. The man justified his action using the background story and wondered about my disappointment, since he was quite proud of himself having ended a jinx. We saw the lion i wanted for him on the second to last day of the safari and he then understood my emotions! He was a grand old male, alone and full of poise, as if in knowledge of our cock-up! The client will never forget that sight and will not forgive himself for spending his lifetime of earnings and five attempts to end-up with a lesser lion that our entire hunting team all know about!

    If someone takes a shot i askem them not to - there are consequences! Hunting is a team effort! Taking un-allowed shots in a game ranch is one thing - but taking a shot without the PH go-ahead in a wild concession - don't be surprised if the PH sends you home! Hunting in true wilderness is a team effort and you will all know when the right one comes along. If you don't, your PH will and he will explain why and you will see.
    Ryan Shallom (CEO)
    www.wild-footprints.com
    Tanzania, East-Africa.

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    Ryan,

    Thanks for your insight. I have not hunted Africa, yet ... but I do hunt by the ethos regarding whether I should shoot or not - "if there is any doubt, then there is no doubt - don't shoot" - seems to me that would apply more so on a hunt in Africa. Seems to me that the client and the professional hunter must both agree on the shot. To do anything else disrespects the animal and the PH.

    Just my opinion .....
    :) SCI, B&C, NRA, NAHC
    Psalms 42:1

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    Gerhard's Avatar
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    Ryan,

    All the client needs to remember is " Trust your PH" and you will have a happy ending.

    As a PH I agree 100% with your feelings.

    At the end of the day you as PH have to make the call if the animal you are hunting is indeed the one you want your client to take. Once this has been determined the client needs to make the call if he wants the animal or not...
    Gerhard

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    SHallom, and Gerard

    You are correct in the choice of NOT shooting a particualr animal belonging to the PH! I think you both agree that the choice not to shoo the PH's choice belongs to the client as well. Shallom's client shooting an immiture lion, is bad enough, bu to do it without even telling the PH you are about to shoot is absolutely unforgivable. Still in the case persented here though the client was wrong in all respects, I can understand the reason for this mistake in judgement on the client's part. He had spent his whole life saveings, and even hocked his home for one last ditch effort at an African lion, and with a lion looking at him, he simply sucummed to buck feaver, knowing he wouldn't ever come back again for the animal he wanted so badly. If the lion had not been a jouvenile, his only mistake was to not let the PH know he was about to shoot.

    I have on occasion refused to shoot a game animal that was not up to my standards, because that is, ultimately my choice. However I have never fired my rifle without giveing the PH warning, and have never, nor would I ever shoot an animal that the PH told me not to shoot. On a couple occasions I was told to shoot an animal in a herd, that was a lessor animal than I had already picked out in the herd. This was done only after I pointed out to the PH I was looking at a better animal, and the PH agreed once he saw the animal I wanted to shoot.

    All this comes down to simple courtisy, in both dirrections, and understanding the rules of Safari hunting. The PH is in charge of what you shouldn't shoot, or absolutely may NOT shoot, but the client is in charge of what he does not have to shoot even when the PH has approved it.

    PHs are not Gods, but men as well as the client is, and can make bad calls, but the client is not obligated to take an animal he doesn't want, no matter what the PH thinks!

    I've never had a conflict with a PH about anything, unless you consider my pointing out the better animal, that the PH had picked out in the herd. In that case there was no conflict between us and the PH agreed my pick was indeed a better animal, and he is on my wall today!
    DUGABOY1 www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
    "If I die today I have had a life well spent, for I have been to see the elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa" qt by Damon(mac) McCartney

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    Shallom's Avatar
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    Dugaboy... indeed, the final decision lies with the client and as a PH myself, I always express to the client that on occassion, I might sound a little anxious and push for a shot, but if he/she is not comfortable taking it, then it is his/her decision and my pressure should not force anyone to take a shot they are not comfortable taking. Similarly, if the trophy does not appeal to the client, he/she is in no way compelled to take it. Totally agreed!

    You make a good point on teamwork there bwana - a PH makes mistakes too, but not half as many as a client (on average as some clients are vastly experienced). The fact that you called a better specimen out of the herd you were hunting, means that you worked as a team and the PH and yourself had a great communication foundation. Well done bwana! At the end of the day, its the unprofessional PH's that have created this weary and nervous concern & caution between client and PH. But the true professional is aware of this and takes it in his stride, all the while gaining the confidence and trust of his guest. Teamwork my friends - TEAMWORK!
    Ryan Shallom (CEO)
    www.wild-footprints.com
    Tanzania, East-Africa.

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    Gerhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shallom View Post
    Dugaboy... indeed, the final decision lies with the client and as a PH myself, I always express to the client that on occassion, I might sound a little anxious and push for a shot, but if he/she is not comfortable taking it, then it is his/her decision and my pressure should not force anyone to take a shot they are not comfortable taking. Similarly, if the trophy does not appeal to the client, he/she is in no way compelled to take it. Totally agreed!

    You make a good point on teamwork there bwana - a PH makes mistakes too, but not half as many as a client (on average as some clients are vastly experienced). The fact that you called a better specimen out of the herd you were hunting, means that you worked as a team and the PH and yourself had a great communication foundation. Well done bwana! At the end of the day, its the unprofessional PH's that have created this weary and nervous concern & caution between client and PH. But the true professional is aware of this and takes it in his stride, all the while gaining the confidence and trust of his guest. Teamwork my friends - TEAMWORK!
    Yes,

    Good communication and team work will win every time.

    Yes,

    PH's are not super hero's but they are the professionals at what they do...

    Just like a doctor or a airline pilot... but they also make mistakes or bad calls at times.
    Gerhard

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