Next "Designer" Trophy?

I think there are some good points raised from both sides of the argument.

Whether recessive means weak I dont know... Blue eyes are a form of recessive genes - that means Ive got weaker genes than a guy with brown eyes??? Labradors are also an example of how ressive genes have played a role in colour differentiation, and they all seem to do ok. I dont think colour on the outside changes the animal on the inside. When these animals are continuosly inbred - then there will be some serious problems and those involved will have to face the music...

One thing, at the moment they are being bred because of economic value. If they are to be shot, I sure as hell hope its a fair chase hunt as Royal27 said.

As for hybrids - I've heard of blue and black wildebeest crosses, blesbok and bontebok are also known to cross, blesbok and red hartebeest as well. Whether they are forced I highly highly doubt it, but they do happen. I remember where we used to fly fish as a kid the farm had to remove one of the wildebeest populations completely (both healthy populations) as they had started cross breeding. In Angola there was recently a case where roan and sable had crossed with each other in the wild. As I said, I do not know of anyone that has intentionally done this before.

A lot of greenies are very anti colour variants, but I have met some who have fallen in love with black impala and so on and said as long as they not being shot its ok. Strange I know - I cant work them out at all.

Originally Posted by davidhein

When these animals are continuosly inbred - then there will be some serious problems and those involved will have to face the music...

One thing, at the moment they are being bred because of economic value. If they are to be shot, I sure as hell hope its a fair chase hunt as Royal27 said.

.

One of the good things about the law in south africa is that it is illegal to cross breed certain species, the blue and black wildebeest for example, however when it comes to wild populations that are not forced then I think it is fair game. I think the argument coming out of the variant breeders that they are breeding better genetic stock is a bit of smoke and mirrors because from what observation tells of just my guinea fowl flock, anything that is not of standard color and size is quickly relieved of duty by any number of predators. Nature took years to evolve into the amazing animals that we now have, if the variants where that much better wouldnt they have been the survivors we hunt today? I think that hip displasia (sp) in certain breeds of dogs proves the point of how the recessive gene in a population can
In regards to breeding animals with exceptional horns, I think there is some merit in managing the genetics in the population however I still feel that only a small handful of these exceptional horn lengths are attained through actual genetics, the rest I believe is compliments of voer-moel game feeds. The feed ration that most of these animals are fed can be likened to dinner at the Keg every night. I just feel it takes away from Africa, as soon as a wild animal has an ear tag, it should never be hunted and should be left to die like your favorite dog.

Originally Posted by davidhein

As for hybrids - I've heard of blue and black wildebeest crosses, blesbok and bontebok are also known to cross, blesbok and red hartebeest as well. Whether they are forced I highly highly doubt it, but they do happen. I remember where we used to fly fish as a kid the farm had to remove one of the wildebeest populations completely (both healthy populations) as they had started cross breeding. In Angola there was recently a case where roan and sable had crossed with each other in the wild. As I said, I do not know of anyone that has intentionally done this before.

A lot of greenies are very anti colour variants, but I have met some who have fallen in love with black impala and so on and said as long as they not being shot its ok. Strange I know - I cant work them out at all.

Blue and black wildebeest do hybridise. My friend who owna a large reserve in RSA was telling me in 2010 when I was last there that he will have to seperate his herd of blue and blacks as the latters numbers are a concern and they want to preserve the genetic integrity.

I believe it is the same with bontebock, as their numbers were very low once upon a time the RSA government wanted to ensure their continued survival and stopped farms when having blesbok and bontebok on the same property to prevent hybridisation.

It's a good idea. I've just returned from hunting red deer in Scotland. We have a population of sika deer here now. A non native species which escaped from private collections years ago and are now thriving. Unfortunately they hybridise with our reds producing a poor quality hybrid.

Does anyone have a picture of a blesbok x red hartebeest? I'd be very interested to see one of those!

Thanks
MJ

Saw a Blesbeest on a hunt in RSA a few years ago. On private property while my son was hunting a Hartmans Zebra. Sitting in the hunting vehicle[Ford F-250 crewcab, right hand drive, 6 cylinder diesel, vinyl seats, rubber floor, try to find that in the US] with the property owner along with my wife. Everyone else was off chasing Zebra. Observed a herd of common blesbok 300 to 500 meters away, was glassing the herd and one was 1/3 taller and had weird looking horns. Kept staring and couldn't figure out what it was. My third safari and I though I had seen all the different hunting species. Finally asked the owner and he said it was a cross between a common blesbok and hartebeest[sp]. Almost asked if I could shoot it just to screw with USF&W when it arrived but thought better of it knowing they have no sense of humor at all. Wish I had now, would have been a unique addition to my man cave.

Are any of those hybrids fertile? We get our share of Mule deer/Whitetail crosses (naturally occuring) but they are infertile as I beleive most hybrids are (Mule, Zonkey etc.)

Originally Posted by Diamondhitch

Are any of those hybrids fertile? We get our share of Mule deer/Whitetail crosses (naturally occuring) but they are infertile as I beleive most hybrids are (Mule, Zonkey etc.)

Here in Kansas the mule deer and whitetail do breed and are fertile. What is bad is the whitetail buck does not keep a harem of does and moves from doe to doe while the mule deer tries to keep a harem. Eventually the whitetail end up doing most of the breeding and slowly all the deer look like whitetail. It is possible they may eventually just breed the mule deer out of existence. The whitetail is gaining more and more territory in the western states.

a depressing thought is that due to cross breeding that most superb trophy ..... the beautiful sweedish blue eyed blonde will be extinct in a couple of generations...

Originally Posted by spike.t

a depressing thought is that due to cross breeding that most superb trophy ..... the beautiful sweedish blue eyed blonde will be extinct in a couple of generations...

Breeding it right out of them are we

Originally Posted by enysse

As someone who loves zebra hunting! I think the one above is ugly....not for me unless it was dirt cheap.

I totally agree on that Zebra being ugly and would pay much less to shoot that than a common Zebra.

Last year I saw a golden wildebeest bull and I think that was beautiful.

Originally Posted by spike.t

a depressing thought is that due to cross breeding that most superb trophy ..... the beautiful sweedish blue eyed blonde will be extinct in a couple of generations...

I've got blue eyes. I think I might buy a blond wig and get a swedish passport. Take a harem and help preserve that most superb trophy for the next generation. Good idea?

Originally Posted by Norwegianwoods

I totally agree on that Zebra being ugly and would pay much less to shoot that than a common Zebra.

Last year I saw a golden wildebeest bull and I think that was beautiful.

You know, I'm not even sure I'd want to shoot one. Even if the trophy fee was low. If I had the taxadermist make a rug for me I'm sure everyone back home would ask what was wrong with it. Why is is not black and white? I can even imagine some people thinking it was fake.

Originally Posted by MJ75

I've got blue eyes. I think I might buy a blond wig and get a swedish passport. Take a harem and help preserve that most superb trophy for the next generation. Good idea?



You know, I'm not even sure I'd want to shoot one. Even if the trophy fee was low. If I had the taxadermist make a rug for me I'm sure everyone back home would ask what was wrong with it. Why is is not black and white? I can even imagine some people thinking it was fake.

I guess people would think the rug was bleached