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Illegal Land Seizures and Arnold Payne

This is a discussion on Illegal Land Seizures and Arnold Payne within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the HUNT AFRICA category; Zimbabwe is still a wonderful country for safari. There are still good operators in good areas. With the internet and ...

  1. #21
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    Zimbabwe is still a wonderful country for safari. There are still good operators in good areas. With the internet and hunting forums that bad and illegal ones are easy to weed out.

    As long as the good guys are still operating in Zim I will continue to support them. Without the good operators the wildlife is doomed.

    Remember everytime we book with operators on stolen property, operators working with Zimbabweans on the US banned list, book with operators using foreign unlicensed PHs, drive in from South Africa and hunt in a SA licensed hunting vehicle with an unlicensed PH, hunt areas like Gwaii, Hwange, or Matetsi 6 we are contributing to the problem.

    SUPPORT THE REMAINING GOOD OPERATORS. PUT THE REST OUT OF BUSINESS.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike70560 View Post
    Zimbabwe is still a wonderful country for safari. There are still good operators in good areas. With the internet and hunting forums that bad and illegal ones are easy to weed out.

    As long as the good guys are still operating in Zim I will continue to support them. Without the good operators the wildlife is doomed.

    Remember everytime we book with operators on stolen property, operators working with Zimbabweans on the US banned list, book with operators using foreign unlicensed PHs, drive in from South Africa and hunt in a SA licensed hunting vehicle with an unlicensed PH, hunt areas like Gwaii, Hwange, or Matetsi 6 we are contributing to the problem.

    SUPPORT THE REMAINING GOOD OPERATORS. PUT THE REST OUT OF BUSINESS.
    I agree 100 percent!

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    It is a shame to see what Zimbabwe is becoming. What some of these "politically" connected operators are doing is nothing more than raping and pillaging lands they know will be destroyed for a quick buck. It is especially disheartening to know it is happening in the Save. That was the one place that I wanted to go and hunt leopard and buffalo on that i would not hesitate to take my wife. I fear that opportunity will be lost soon. The most disappointing thing is that once it is taken over, it will probably never recover. Operators that have been there to develop and nurture the Save could be thrown out, and a lives work destroyed.
    Hopefully news will spread amongst the hunting fraternity and our fellow hunters will refuse to support them- lets see how far they can get without clients. I doubt it, but it would be a big step for SCI to refuse these scumbags as exhibitors, on both the local and national level.
    Has there been any feedback from the other operators in the Save- how are Mokore, Zambezi Hunters, Roger Whittall and the rest faring?

  4. #24
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    Please do not quote me, but as I understand most of the hunting is shutdown on the Save.

    The legitimate operators are very resilient. They are working on the issue and hopefully will have a favorable resolution soon.

    Savuli is the only area that was recently stolen. The other guys are still on their property.

  5. #25
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    I have just returned from Zim yesterday. I was hunting in the Matetsi Unit one area but had a long time friend, PH, and thirty year resident of Humani Ranch which is owned by Roger Whittal with me. The situation, as of Saturday, was that the current clients on the ground and ones in the air on the way to Zim can complete thier hunts. After this no more hunts will be allowed pending an outcome of the current situation. This may have changed since Saturday. I will post if I have updates.
    This is a tragic event that, if not resolved, will not only leave several hunters without the abillity to complete hunts in the Save but many of the residents in the conservancy without a home.
    This is not the only area in Zim that is currently in turmoil. We had hunters from Unit four and Unit two in the Matetsi area have to move hunts over to us at Unit one due to similar circumstances. As Mike mentioned above, there are still a lot of great operators and hunting areas in Zim but it is imparative to ensure you are booking with one of these operators.

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    Tim if you get some names of these pilfering hoards (and company names) let us know so everyone can make a rational choice to support the good outfitters and avoid the plague.

    Sad news for those who have booked for later this year.

    It does not look good for wildlife.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim416 View Post
    I have just returned from Zim yesterday. I was hunting in the Matetsi Unit one area but had a long time friend, PH, and thirty year resident of Humani Ranch which is owned by Roger Whittal with me. The situation, as of Saturday, was that the current clients on the ground and ones in the air on the way to Zim can complete thier hunts. After this no more hunts will be allowed pending an outcome of the current situation. This may have changed since Saturday. I will post if I have updates.
    This is a tragic event that, if not resolved, will not only leave several hunters without the abillity to complete hunts in the Save but many of the residents in the conservancy without a home.
    This is not the only area in Zim that is currently in turmoil. We had hunters from Unit four and Unit two in the Matetsi area have to move hunts over to us at Unit one due to similar circumstances. As Mike mentioned above, there are still a lot of great operators and hunting areas in Zim but it is imparative to ensure you are booking with one of these operators.
    tim416

    I just read this thread and had a really bad feeling in my stomach, I have booked a buffalo hunt with Roger Whittal and are to travel on the 6 september .... Do you have any new information about the sitautionen in conservancy ..??

    BR. Poul
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 458Lott View Post
    tim416

    I just read this thread and had a really bad feeling in my stomach, I have booked a buffalo hunt with Roger Whittal and are to travel on the 6 september .... Do you have any new information about the sitautionen in conservancy ..??

    BR. Poul
    I am on Skype daily with the folks in Zim. Once I see Humani come online I will be sure to check and provide any updates available.

  9. #29
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    Tim,

    Thanks for the updates.

    Tell us a little about your hunts!!

  10. #30
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    Mike,
    Just finished a tuskless and three buffalo safaris.
    We have done fourteen safaris to date this season in Unit 1.
    I will post a report with photos when I get caught up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 458Lott View Post
    tim416

    I just read this thread and had a really bad feeling in my stomach, I have booked a buffalo hunt with Roger Whittal and are to travel on the 6 september .... Do you have any new information about the sitautionen in conservancy ..??

    BR. Poul
    The Whittals are first rate folks with a great reputation. I would relax and rely on the fact that their long history in the safari business combined with their integrity will allow things to work out just fine.
    I will be sure to pass along any updates that I hear.

  12. #32
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    It is not looking good for the legal and rightful owners of the Save. Anybody hunting on stolen property should be tied to a tree for lion bait. Same goes for the property stolen from the rightful owners 10 years ago in the Gwaii area.

    allAfrica.com: Zimbabwe: Indigenisation of Conservancies Starts


    Zimbabwe: Indigenisation of Conservancies Starts


    10 August 2012


    Government yesterday started indigenising conservancies by issuing hunting permits to 25 black farmers allocated lots at the wildlife-rich Save Valley Conservancy in the Lowveld. The issuing of the hunting permits to black farmers follows an almost eight-year stalemate between Government and white conservancy operators.

    The operators were refusing to co-exist with the new farmers under the Government's wildlife-based land reform policy.

    Government in 2004 issued 25-year leases to black farmers to actively participate in the lucrative wildlife sector.

    National Parks and Wildlife Management Authority director general Mr Vitalis Chadenga issued the hunting permits to the black farmers at Benjamin Burombo Government Complex in Masvingo and said more permits would be issued next week.

    Mr Chadenga said the black farmers who were issued with hunting permits were allocated 25-year land leases in conservancies throughout Masvingo province.

    "When the land reform programme started, the Government did not focus much on the wildlife sector because it is not only sensitive, but also requires orderly transfer," he said.

    "But the Parks and Wildlife Management Authority, with the concurrence of Environment and Natural Resources Management Minister Francis Nhema has, after due consideration of all representations made to it by all stakeholders in the Wild Life-Based Land Reform exercise made the decision to grant with immediate effect annual hunting permits and quotas to beneficiaries who are in possession of 25 year leases."

    Mr Chadenga told the new black farmers that his organisation expected orderly hunting to take place in the conservancies.

    "The authority (National Parks and Wildlife Management Authority) is convinced that orderly hunting will ensue henceforth," he said.

    "And that the right holders will assist the authority with accountability so as to ensure sustainable hunting, security to tourists and to complement the authority's robust conservation efforts."

    Mr Chadenga said measures were underway to bring to book those in the wildlife sector hunting without permits.

    He expressed concern over an upsurge in poaching activities, especially the black rhino in areas where old and new stakeholders were in conflict over hunting rights.

    Mr Chadenga said the granting of hunting permits to black farmers was expected to engender orderliness in the wildlife hunting sector.

    Speaking at the same function, Masvingo governor and resident minister Titus Maluleke said the province had waited for too long for black farmers to get hunting permits.

    He said the development was a landmark and would further consolidate the land reform and indigenisation programme.

    Among the black farmers who received hunting permits in an area straddling nearly 200 000 hectares at Save Valley Conservancy was Governor Maluleke, former Gutu South legislator Cde Shuvai Mahofa, Higher and Tertiary Education Minister and Masvingo North legislator Dr Stan Mudenge.

  13. #33
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    mike

    give it a year and you will be hard pressed to find wildlife...

    there goes that area...
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  14. #34
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    Sounds familiar...Too bad. Zim was a great place to hunt once upon a time. I know some areas especially DG areas are good, but the PG is going fast.

  15. #35
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    My first hunt was in the Gwaii River area at Lion's Den back in 1999. It's all gone now. Animals, facilities,
    infrastructure. Gone, like the wind in the trees.

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    TAP

    You mention you PH could not say much as Drummond employed him as a free Lance PH! Morally and ethically he should not do any work for him in any way! He is hated and despised and your Ph will be by association also! I would rather go hungery then be associated with the likes of Drummond!

    Regards the SAVE we were hunting on Hammond- which is a stunning ranch owned by an American who has done wonders there including a huge amount for the local communities every year as well as including them with in the fence and improving water on their side at his own cost which has resulted in them getting a quota and making a good living out of it.

    Further more his wife employs dozens of local ladies in a knitting business also- well he has just lost all that to the Local MP and an Army brigadier! Such a waste and anyone who supports these "new owners" need to be black listed and these include the likes of Drummond and his phs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike70560 View Post
    Zimbabwe is still a wonderful country for safari. There are still good operators in good areas. With the internet and hunting forums that bad and illegal ones are easy to weed out.

    As long as the good guys are still operating in Zim I will continue to support them. Without the good operators the wildlife is doomed.

    Remember everytime we book with operators on stolen property, operators working with Zimbabweans on the US banned list, book with operators using foreign unlicensed PHs, drive in from South Africa and hunt in a SA licensed hunting vehicle with an unlicensed PH, hunt areas like Gwaii, Hwange, or Matetsi 6 we are contributing to the problem.

    SUPPORT THE REMAINING GOOD OPERATORS. PUT THE REST OUT OF BUSINESS.
    Totally agree, but I am not optimistic about the future on the wildlife there. Poaching is rampant, SA operators a huge issue, Park is selling its asset (game...) because they are out of money (no more payment from hunting concessions seized).
    Sad!

  18. #38
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    "The authority (National Parks and Wildlife Management Authority) is convinced that orderly hunting will ensue henceforth," he said.

    Right. Who is going to actually book a hunt with these land stealing, ruthless thieves?! Are they serious. Do they actually think foreign hunting dollars will still come into Zim when they pull this crap. I've heard of dumb but that is a whole new level.
    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOM View Post
    "The authority (National Parks and Wildlife Management Authority) is convinced that orderly hunting will ensue henceforth," he said.

    Right. Who is going to actually book a hunt with these land stealing, ruthless thieves?! Are they serious. Do they actually think foreign hunting dollars will still come into Zim when they pull this crap. I've heard of dumb but that is a whole new level.
    YES! Of course "orderly hunting will continue". Hunters, unsuspecting or otherwise, will hunt with them.

    Here is a perfect example for you! Published 2011
    SCI Kentucky
    SCI Blue Visits Zimbabwe


    Sam Monarch
    "Our outfitters, Arnold Payne and Ticky Drummond of Impala Safaris, were very excited
    about the idea and promised to locate a school with children who needed help."


    http://www.kentuckianasci.org/newsle...(pg%206-7).pdf



    On another note:


    The latest advertising nuance from some Zimbabwe "Outfitters" - (I use this term loosely)

    "Non Exportable Buffalo" ; "Non Exportable Elephant"

    I have seen this legitimately offered in Botswana. Animals exiting the "Red Zone" can not be taken anywhere. Disease quarantine laws. This is verifiable and well documented for anyone to find. But Zimbabwe?! (Please tell me I am wrong and this is not just another creative way to sucker unsuspecting hunters into poaching)
    Attached Files Attached Files
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  20. #40
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    Wayne, I have no idea when that trip occurred but I think once word truly gets out about the problems in the Save people will not visit them. I mean, can you honestly see these unscrupulous "indigenous" outfitters showing up in Reno or Dallas?
    Tom

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