This is a discussion on outfitter pricing????? within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the Hunting Forums - Hunting in Africa category; I have a major question for you outfitters and would like some serious answers. as you read this please be ...
I have a major question for you outfitters and would like some serious answers. as you read this please be aware that i am fully aware of concession fees for hunters vs non hunters and the requirements of shipping trophies under the hunters names etc.
here is my question.
if you were to plan a mozambique buffalo hunt you would book a ten day hunt. the cost would be around $14,000. if you wanted a second buffalo simply pay the $3,000 fee and its yours. (2nd must be requested in advance because of quota) next your wife wants to go along. shes charged about $200.00 per day for a total of $2,000.00 for her to watch. total for the safari for the two buffalo and your wife as an observer is about $19,000. all trophies are tagged under one name and shipped in one box safari over. now what happens when ur in the bush and your wife decides hey would it be so bad if i pull the trigger? well now her fee just jumped from $2,000 as an observer to $14,000 for a second 10 day safari minus the worthless discount of $50/day for the 2x1 discount. total for your hunt is now $28,000! a $9,000 price hike plus the upidy up outfitters incist on 2 separate crates instead of tagging them under one hunters name and now your shipping doubles. i seriously doubt you guys incur $9,000 of additional fees once this observer turns into a hunter so why the scam?
01-20-2012, 07:13 PM #2
01-20-2012, 07:16 PM #3
i have a hard time seeing it that way. most outfitters dont hit 100% quota hence end of the year bargains. if they were always 100% booked then i agree but in my case just cuz i have the money doesnt mean i forget how hard it is to make it and i repect anyone who helps me out. hence im a loyal client as long as someone is truly looking out for me. i spent $115,000 last year on safari and am not returning to any of my guides except for one. ive found that if a guide truly enjoys hunting then price gouging takes second place to enjoying a good hunt. when i hunt i prefer to hunt with guys who love hunting and have found the more guys charge the less they like to hunt and hence a lesser experience. the guys who love to hunt traet you as if they genuinely care and the entire hunt experiences shines through. these guys pay attention to the small details. not wining and dining, heck i could care less if i slept on the ground. i wanna experience a REAL hunting experience with a guy who shares a common intrest and at the same time i want to build a friendship. maybe im off but the guides charging exuberent fees are just not the guys for me
01-20-2012, 09:06 PM #5
You are making a good point, however area dictates price to a large extent the better the area size an number ussually the higher it would be, keep in mind guys will try to sell their quota up untill the last possible moment before they just go... A well I'm going to be stuck with quota anyway so I might as well just take 30% of my quota in the begining of the season and drop my price by 40% I think it would just be silly to do that.
Any person in buisiness wants the most he cam get within reason for his product thats normal, tying it into hunting ethic and skill or experience is a bit of a harsh call I'd say.
Thats why the market has a wide range of pricing to suit the vafious consumers needs is it not.
However do not be mistaken there are good reasons why there are some Buff hunts for $8000-00 and some for $15000 they are most definitly not the same.
Just my thoughts on this as well.
My very best always.
i would agree on pricing. there are buff hunts for $38,000 that im seriously thinking about and that is the only price. however the buff and experience are worth it. however a $14,000 buff hunt is your average outfitter and for these guys not to offer an observer a buff on discount isnt the wiser move imho. zambia buff sure, no discounts are expected but in lesser areas and average areas why cant you pay less for more hunting and expect to shoot smaller buffalo in return for more hunting time?
01-20-2012, 09:36 PM #7
- Member of NAHC Life Member, NRA Life Member,SCI, Buckmasters
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Tap I have to agree with you I've talked to a lot of Outfitters in RSA that will gladly let your wife come along as an observer and if she wants to pull the trigger on one of your animals no additional fee or if she wants to shoot one on her own then for that day she is the hunter and you become the Observer seems to easy to me.Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.
01-20-2012, 09:49 PM #8
Guys we need to remember that outfitters are sitting on GOVERMENT areas this is not the US or Canada bob private ownership on game is a completly different story, I know that in Zim many outfitters do not or can not put two buff on a TR2 in some cases they have to cook the books to do this which is never a good idea, everything that all understands about Africa is about a drop in the bucket of the red tape you need to deal with as an outfitter,
I think on sells your product for what it is worth, mostly we undersell our product especially those of us with something good.
As mentioned maybe the outfitter still believes that he can still sell his quota and I truly believe that none of us should be to harsh on him for that. After all he is also working for his money and have staff and a daughter in college.
By all means find a different outfitter, if the mentioned on is not willing at this point in time, I for one on a free roaming area would hold out as long as possible before I drop rates by 40%.
Thats exactly the reason why one can pick up deals sometime but I would surely bust my butt first to see if I can make all work between my old clients/agents.
02-08-2012, 12:03 AM #9
- Member of SCI, CHASA, SAGA, Big Bore, SAAACA, KZNHCA
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First, it is up to the individual outfitter and his client to discuss, preferably up front.
It would be very easy for the client to request 2 animals and intend for the partner or spouse to shoot the other. Is this fair on the outfitter?
Jaco brings up some good points.
Mozambique is mentioned. Before a client may hunt he/she needs their own hunting licence, and this must be arranged prior to pulling the trigger. Anything else is not legal and the outfitter carries the can while the client might have the rifle and trophy confiscated and goes home.
And do not believe that a secret can be kept. If you have spent time in Africa you will know that even though you might believe you are miles from anywhere, you gave gov and safari staff that can talk, and there is more than a good chance that some indigenous herb/honey gatherer wandering around will see what happened.
i do not have a problem with Taps idea, and in our SA hunting areas we often let the wife or kids especially have a poke at something without the fees being raised and where it is legal.
02-08-2012, 04:02 AM #10
- Hunted South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe ( before 'Bob ! ), ozambique, Zambia Tanzania, Hungary, Lithuania, UK, Alaska
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The highly reputable outfit I hunt with in Mozambique are very strict regarding anyone hunting ( pulling trigger ) without a Gov hunting license pre issued to that specific person.
Their 10 day hunts are US$12,000 for 2012 and trophy fees US$3,000 per Buff.
I agree that, why should a successful and, normally, fully booked outfitter sell a second Buffalo for less than the total hunt cost. The principal hunter may, at the outfitter's discretion, be offered more animals , if available before, or during the hunt.
The problem , which could a BIG problem to the outfitter, would occur if there was an incident, or accident , where the unlicensed hunter was involved.
This could result in the PH losing his license and the outfitter his concession in extreme cases.
As all hunts are accompanied by a Gov Game Scout , there is no room to hide should a tragedy occur.
I have hunted Buffalo and all dangerous game , bar Rhino, for 30 years and yet am not allowed, officially, to carry a rifle in the bush, without a hunting license and a hunt booked, for these reasons.
Tanzania is good for booking 2 or even 3 Buff on a hunt, but the same rules should apply, although they are sometimes, wrongly, relaxed.
I hope that helps.........
GB & W Safaris UK
02-08-2012, 10:26 AM #11
Originally Posted by martyOriginally Posted by Code4Originally Posted by tapOriginally Posted by KMG Hunting SafarisOriginally Posted by BobpuckettOriginally Posted by Jaco StraussOriginally Posted by Jaco StraussOriginally Posted by BaydogOriginally Posted by BRICKBURNOriginally Posted by DiamondhitchOriginally Posted by BRICKBURNOriginally Posted by DiamondhitchOriginally Posted by NyatiOriginally Posted by VonJager Jaco StraussIf he would let you shoot the second buff, and it was on license/quota available, and the observer(male or Female) asked if they could instead, I would be inclined to, HOWEVER here are some issues to address. This person is potentially not practiced at shooting. The PH did not have them shoot when they arrived. Having a potentially inexperienced shot, take the shot could be risky for all involved.
While Buffalo quota may be left at the end of the season, that means a few big bulls walk, which just leaves more Bulls for the next year. If you are trying to keep a concession for the long term, having more big bulls is better. All outfitters are trying to make the most money they can, while still providing the best hunting, service, experience they can. Prices keep climbing it seems, most due to government increasing their fees, but the last few years have been pretty flat due to the economy, from my perspective.
In conclusion, I think being a returning client would give you the best chance to have something like this occur. With no preplanning and not sure if you plan to return, I would think it would be in the best interest of the outfitter to not allow the taking of the buffalo, maybe PG at no increased rate from observer. I would not pay the increase from observer to hunter, for the entire duration for the privilege to take a buffalo.Originally Posted by 35bore
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