Quote:
Originally Posted by Code4
tap,
Good post. Every so often a post like yours pops up on different hunting forums. We have all experienced or observed the 'kiss arse, higher tip, stupid rich client' behaviour that exists. The problem is this 'product' in the 'Industry' doesn't exist without demand, which says a lot about us and our fellow hunters/consumers.
I see two different posts here from you. The 'why pay extra for what exists' query, which has been answered, and the 'lets pay for real hunting' post.
I would be interested to find out how you book your hunts. Are they based on the species you want ? through a hunting organisation at auction ? through an outfitter ? or do you personally research and select your PH and his organisation. I dislike third partys in any process and prefer to do things myself to get what I want.
Depending on species, $113,000 is not a small sum of money to spend and with that bankroll I'm sure you can find what you want. AS you have specific needs and expectations you will have to be far more specific with your booking and research. Do not just accept what is offered.
Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaco Strauss
Heated now! I am a full time ph/outfitter, hunting is my passion, but it's also my job/livelyhood. Balance between profit and expendetures are very important. What we need to understand is that we as guides/outfitters handle lifelong dreams for the most part, people come to me at the booth and entrust me with something they have dreamed about for 35-50 years in some cases, this is always a great and exciting prospect for me as it should be to all of us that are serious about what we do.
There is no one thing greater than seeing a clients eyes well up after finaly realizing his dream of doing a buff or even a kudu hunt.
However we live in a reality while our clients are living their dream, from my side the money/profit pays a morgage medical insurance and so on, maybe a coast vacation for my family one every two years. As an outfitter you are also a buisiness owner, and I feel you are entitled to run a succsesfull one, if ones prices are not competative you simply just wont sell hunts its that simple.
No one and by that I believe no one knows better than I how hard just passion can nip you in the butt I was chewed up and spat out because of having just passion for hunting and wanting to do all the great things with my clients without buisiness sense.
Our clients want as much as they can for as little as possible, for the most part this is true of all consumers.
As outfitter we want the best within reason for our product, meaning we need to be competative, I for one dont think the Mozie guy is a shark, he wants what all of us want wether we like to acknowledge this or not.
I am sure that with a little searching you'll find exactly what you want.
My best always.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondhitch
I also dont see the big deal about allowing an abserver to shoot the odd animal - if it is pre-arranged. Showing up and expecting it seems more like trying to cheap out on a 2x1 hunt. On my hunt last June I asked in advance if my wife could pay observer rate most days and only pay hunter rate for a day or 2 to collect the couple animals she wanted. My PH Chris Troskie generously said dont worry about it she can hunt at observer rates. There were no last minute suprises and things went well. Thank you Chris.
The one thing that really stuck out to me on this was in your second post Tap. I dont want to start anything here but my perspective is that you get to go on $115,000 worth of guided hunts per year. Im sure you work hard for your money but here is some perspective for you. I work a full time job 10hrs+ per day, I am on call at night and spend many nights working as well (after working a full 10hr+ day) I also work many of my days off and have several side businesses on the go so that I can not only afford to pay the bills but also have enough left over for both Christine and myself to chase our dreams. 1 hunt per year is all I can afford after working my butt off night and day. When I hear someone whining that they dont get enough hunting for their $115,000 per year, sympathy is not the emotion it envokes!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyati
All outfitters I know have no problem at letting an observer shoot the odd impala, or blesbok, without any additional cost.
A buffalo, or any major (expensive) animal, that s another story !
Quote:
If he would let you shoot the second buff, and it was on license/quota available, and the observer(male or Female) asked if they could instead, I would be inclined to, HOWEVER here are some issues to address. This person is potentially not practiced at shooting. The PH did not have them shoot when they arrived. Having a potentially inexperienced shot, take the shot could be risky for all involved.
While Buffalo quota may be left at the end of the season, that means a few big bulls walk, which just leaves more Bulls for the next year. If you are trying to keep a concession for the long term, having more big bulls is better. All outfitters are trying to make the most money they can, while still providing the best hunting, service, experience they can. Prices keep climbing it seems, most due to government increasing their fees, but the last few years have been pretty flat due to the economy, from my perspective.
In conclusion, I think being a returning client would give you the best chance to have something like this occur. With no preplanning and not sure if you plan to return, I would think it would be in the best interest of the outfitter to not allow the taking of the buffalo, maybe PG at no increased rate from observer. I would not pay the increase from observer to hunter, for the entire duration for the privilege to take a buffalo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 35bore
Jaco is 100% right, for these guys (outfitters/PH's) it is business. They will surely make a lot of freindships along the way, but, passion for the hunt and wild critters aside, it is ultimately their livelyhood. Anyone who owns a business wants to provide the best service out there, in essence to be THE BEST, at what he/she does, and giving stuff away (which most of us business owners do from time to time) doesn't help the checkbook. Then again, only time I give concrete away is on a big ticket project, in which I know I will get more work from the contractor.
If the client and Outfitter did not really hit it off, so to speak, and things were tense, I could see things going the way they did. Just my two cents, cause we are really only getting one side of the story here. Maybe the outfitter didn't care, or maybe he already knew he had lost your return business when the question for your wife to shoot the Buff arose.
