Lion hunts in RSA

Spike don't be so judgmental! perhaps you have never watched the TV program NEXT? Obviously Capstick has strong opinions about something he very clearly knows nothing about. Yet everyone continues to defend a position (and get their blood pressures up!) that doesn't need defending! Hunting on farms is what it is. Canned hunting is what it is - distasteful as it may seem to some. Capstick should just go and hunt Tanzania or the open areas of Botswana or Zim if SA is not to his liking. However, I do find it a bit strange for a Brit self professed and qualified PH and Guide (Gamekeeper?) to be so critical when bonny Englands 'farm's are postage stamp size by comparison to anything in Africa at all. What they call farms in the UK, we call urban plots! How and what would you 'Guide' or 'PH' there?
I do enjoy the discourse but NEXT!!! Thanx Docman!

Second wind...you have it about perfectly right! If animals are on open land like the NP Safari areas or communal areas of Zim, whilst they should be protected by the State, the states agents are eliminating them faster than they can breed. Free roaming / ranging wildlife is on the decline in Africa as the populations explode. A romantic bygone era is exactly what it is!
Of interest, over the past 2 decades, the length of safaris has become markedly shorter! In the old days, we marketed a plains game safari or a 10 - 14 days hunt, a Leopard / Plains game or Buffalo / plains game hunt on 14 day hunt...no less! The Elephant hunts were 21 day hunts only. Times have changed! Sadly!

excellent ole bally, now that was far more interesting and enjoyable! regards mike

Thank you for your kind approbation Sir!

my pleasure. just out of interest what is the tv show next? ,as all i could find on google was some MTV. dating show crap!

Yup that's exactly it! My daughter watches it and we've all gotten into the habit of saying 'NEXT' when someones getting tiresome! That show sure deflates some ego's though!!! The lighter side of life!!

ok. well thats a new one, the wife has called me everything else on the planet apart from tiresome!! ha ha!!!

why would you have thought it was aimed a you??!

nah! i am far too interesting to be tiresome!

I find it strange that a person who describes himself as a deer manager would voice his opinion on what constitutes a canned hunt.I would not choose to hunt captive lions myself but others are free to make up thier own mind.Capstick should consider that with exception of Roe all the deer in England were released at one time or the other and are managed on small properties compared to the population size

Originally Posted by spike.t

nah! i am far too interesting to be tiresome!

Yawn....NEXT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hah Hah knew that would work as you say NEXT!!!!!!!!!!

I know perfectly well what I'm talking about. I don't see what trying to put my country and its wild animals down has to do with shooting captive breed released lions. Red and roe deer are true native deer to the UK, fallow were here at one stage during our history, muntjac, cwd and sika were brought over for collections and are now living wild through escapes or deliberate release. Only farmed deer are KILLED behind fences over here. All deer stalking is of wild deer. Yes a Gamekeeper/stalker or gillie is a professional in his trade, does it make him a lesser guide because we don't have large dangerous game over here?? No I would not pay to shoot animals behind fences I can get my meat from the supermarket already packaged for a cheaper price.

OK as a 'gamekeeper' what's your opinion on Bird hunting, Game Birds & Pheasant specifically, in the UK? By and large They're bred, released and shot within meters of their release! Does this fall into the same category as the Lion in your opinion?
You're quite happy to crit SA's wildlife ideas and practices but not so happy to check your own back yard! Are these wild deer not enclosed by any fencing at all? They can roam the length and breadth of the Island can they? Not even the neighbors have fences that happen to ring fence an Estate? They may be wild in a sense, but I truly believe that they're managed too one way or another and thus they are 'farmed' too! Isn't that what the 'Gamekeepers' job is? That's a question not a statement...what are a Gamekeepers responsibilities?

Ole Bally, without this being personal, there are actually quite a few places where you can hunt wild deer in the UK. (I have been looking into arranging some for myself) The hunting methods are different than I am used to, but it can be done.

There are some forests in Norfolk/Scotland where you can go "stalking" and the deer indeed can roam anywhere they like. No fences. They can run off to the train and visit the palace if they choose.

Of course the deer are managed. We "manage" our wild deer here in Canada, although there are many who would beg to differ at times.

There are DMG's who arranges stalking and who's job it is to effectively be the predator in the current ecosystem.
There are also places, just like in Texas/Saskatchewan (excuse the easy targets) and RSA where you can shoot deer within small enclosures.


We "release" Pheasants here and "supplement" the wild population. Since the birds are not native we have supplemented the whole populations really. We have "put and take" areas to "hunt" the Pheasant now. Released one day, shot the next.
There are preserves where you can arrange to shoot a requested number of released birds any day of the week.

At least in the UK the birds are released weeks before to grow up outside an enclosure.
(Of course they do not have all the extra predators we do here)

The line, for whatever reasons, has been drawn with "wild" mammals here. We have the luxury.

Oh Please! Must I do everything?

Capstick,

First, and principally, you represent yourself here to be something which you are not and profess to hold positions that, in reality, are there only to occlude the true nature of your presence.

I have carefully read your postings in this and in other threads and it becomes all to clear quite quickly that what you hold yourself out to be is inaccurate and not just ill-informed.

The buzz words and nomenclature that slip out in your posts occasionally identify you for what you are and easily disclose the true purpose for your appearance.

Understand please, I fault no one for being what they are, whatever that happens to be. My cause for concern here is that this is or has been a rather polite and distinguished forum conducted almost at all times in a gentlemanly and polite manner and tone.

Further, being ill or un informed is no disqualifier either, this is, a forum designed for the exchange of topical information through the sharing of opinion and experience and the presence of each benefits the whole while each has largely at his disposal the experience and opinion of the whole.

Jerome has, in his construct here, created something really nice and of considerable value to those of a like mind.

However, it does concern me that you appear and seem to, for no readily identifiable reason, enter a topic thread and begin to attempt to foster dissension where none exists.

Until closer scrutiny is applied

Matt, the reality is that you are a product of Western European Social Society and I do not believe that is necessarily your fault.

Hunting, in England is reserved for the very wealthy and largely out of the reach of the commoner. Estates are managed and intensely so. Game is not hunted, it is harvested like wheat.

For you to present yourself on this forum and speak of "free ranging" anything is something of a farce based upon nothing more than your education and experience.

While you do admit to having read a great number of books on Africa and Africa Hunting please try to focus on the fact that we do not live in colonial Africa./ Things and the World change and to hug your tree and espouse the thoughts that everything should once again just "be as it was" dooms our sport and the wildlife to extinction.

There is the cocktail party and then there is reality and while the cocktail party is quite fun we have to live and operate in reality.

If you define free ranging as deer hunting in the UK I am good with that which, based on that, my two Labradors in the back yard are, by your definition, wild and free ranging!

At first I thought you were simply ill or un informer and then I suspected that you might be a PETA plant and finally, after considerable commiseration it dawned on me

You are and seem to represent a segment of sport hunting that I find the most destructive.

The goal of a few, found mostly in Western Europe based on my experience, is to so expand the nature and cost of hunting to such a point that it is denied the common man and becomes the acceptable refuge of only the wealthy.

In that artificially created enclave, so much land is used and the inefficiencies are such that the cost displaces the hunter of ordinary means.

Now, I normally just ignore the PETA crowd and the associated loons that follow but your ilk is, by my opinion, far more sinister

If your definition of free ranging or wild was adhered to this planet could probably accommodate less that 10% of the hunters and enthusiasts that it now supports and those that were able to continue the sport would be only the very wealthy and privileged who see and use hunting as nothing more than another form of entertainment or social distraction.

Not on my watch my friend . Those that wish to preserve some out - dated destructive Victorian image of hunting anywhere do not share at the same table with me.

Respectfully Submitted

Originally Posted by Second Wind

Oh Please! Must I do everything?

No, I still want to play!

bRICK

roflmao!

Yes, of course you can still play. Just be nice to the other hunters

Originally Posted by Second Wind

Just be nice to the other hunters

That's what my mommy taught me. Play nice or you can't play at all.

Second wind really ...what happened to the gentlemanly approach?!!!! rofl ! Come on, we have to school the youngsters!
Brick...nothing personal here ever!!!! That's why we're veterans!! I thought to give the young man something else to chew on for a bit! Point is that it's very easy to find fault with anything at all if you're determined enough and keep yr blinkers on! As you can see, I could have quite an opinion of hunting in the UK....something I have only hear say knowledge of! SW's quite right of course but I was enjoying the discourse!