JUAN PACE of Shangwari Safaris, Trophy Quest Africa and Leopards Lair NOT TO BE TRUSTED

As featured on Facebook under the group BULLSHITTERS in our hunting industry:

“Juan Pace of Shangwari Safaris and TrophyQuest Africa is NOT to be trusted! I sold 8 Dangerous Game Hunting Packages for him this year totaling in more than R80,000 in commission which he has disappeared with. I also spent R12,000 developing a property he is co-owner of, Leopards Lair in Alldays for which he refuses to pay, to add the cherry to the top he has also taken me for R25,000 as deposit on Dangerous Game hunts in Mozambique. This man is a thief, a poacher and an absolute liar! Please do not make the same mistake I did. I witnessed a number of serious transgressions while he "guided" a group of Russian clients recently that is not only criminal in basis but would also cost him his outfitters license. Steer clear of this man. If anyone would like confirmation of the abovementioned accusations I gladly share with you the following: Hunting partner Andries Oosthuizen who was witness to the misconduct, 084 593 1016. My lawyer who is handeling the case of theft I have opened against said Juan Pace, Piet Swart 034 4131714 / 082 330 0094.”

As many of you know and as has been stated above I have been working with Juan Pace of Shangwari Safaris from January this year, although I had a contract drawn up by a third party lawyer regarding the selling of his hunts and the marketing of his hunting operations he had never signed it, always having an excuse and inevitably postponing. My mistake was to go ahead and market and sell his hunts. Although I did do my homework regarding Juan Pace and his hunting operations known as Shangwari Safaris and Trophy Quest Africa everything seemed above board, that is until I had dealt with him directly and recently spoken to a multitude of other outfitters of high standing outfitting companies who have also been done in by this man. He advertises what he does not have, he hunts what he is not licenced to do and does people in around every corner. Since posting the above statement on the Facebook Group I have been inundated with calls and emails from outfitters with similar stories and from a multitude of scorned hunters.

The property in Alldays known as Leopards lair on which he conducts the majority of his plains game hunts is not suited to bowhunting, in February of this year I was pleaded with to build brush blinds on the very same afternoon I arrived as he was expecting Canadian bowhunting clients the very same day, although I did my best to help the man and his clients the end result was dismal. He should never have marketed the place as a bowhunting property as there were absolutely NO facilities. On my second visit to the property in June this year I had at Juan Pace’s request gone there to develop the property as a bowhunting destination, I had spent thousands of Rands on Pop Up Blinds, Treestands, 3D targets and a total business marketing package, something I was never paid for.

Whilst there he had a small group of Russian clients which he was hunting with and myself and my hunting partner had the opportunity to witness firsthand the absolutely sickening methods he employed to get the clients their animals. They were stationed at waterholes during the majority of the day with high power rifles, waterholes which had been intended to be created as bowhunting blinds. when this had not sufficed they would go spotlighting at night, taking any and all animals of any which size and specie, Warthog young that weighed a mere 7kg, Steenbuck of 2.5” and nocturnal species like Aardwolf. We even sat listening as he and his PH even tried arranging a helicopter out of which the, what he called stinking rich clients, could shoot as they were apparently not killing enough animals and species per day. Calls were made in my presence where CAGED caracals were requested, without so much as a thought to what myself and my hunting partner would say or think, as long as he made a lot of money as fast as he possibly could. He even had the audacity to request I shoot a trophy animal at night with a rifle so that it be propped up in the fridge and posed the next morning with my bow so that he I could write a piece on his hunting operation, I was so taken aback I merely spluttered back that never in my entire life would I do such a thing!

I post this not as a form of payback, my lawyer is handling the case in which I hope I will recover at least a small amount of money that is owed to me. I post this here so that other hunters, PH’s and outfitters do not make the same mistake I did, that you do not join the ever growing list from which Juan Pace has stolen. I sincerely apologize if I have let anyone of you down, if any of you have lost time or money investing in hunts with this man. If there is absolutely anything I can do to help you recoup some of this loss I ask that you do not hesitate to contact me directly.

For any further questions, opinions or requests please get in touch of me directly at:
Cell: 083 304 6336
Email: engeepotgieter@yahoo.com

Or alternatively my lawyer who has been given instructions to assist anyone who might want any help or advice in this regard as I have an ongoing case of fraud and theft against Juan Pace of Shangwari Safaris.

My sincere regards,

Engee Potgieter
Executive Bowhunting Editor
African Outfitter Magazine

Thanks for posting this information, I know it wasn't the easiest thing to do.

Thank you sir, yes you are totally right, I am incredibly ashamed to be involved with in such a mess!

Thanks Ingozi much appreciated and dually noted!

I know this could not have been easy for you but you have all my respect.

Best Regards
Louis van Bergen

Engee,
thank you very much for speaking out clearly.
you have all my respect for stating the truth.

there is no need to be ashamed,'cause you did the right thing:
taking him to court and trying to stop him from beeing an outfitter!
people like him (juan pace) should not be allowed to even speak the word hunter.

Thanks for the info Engee. I always enjoy your posts. Sorry to see this one though.

Thanks Engee.

I would also like to name Kobus Grobler Safaris. He has taken me and friends for large amounts. Beware of this person to. He took me on a buffalo hunt with bow. I shot the buff at 9 yards and he was supposed to back me up with rifle. He didnt even had a bullet in the chamber. Luckily the shot was good.

He asked deposits for hunts. After the payments were made there were always an excuse for him not to accomodate us.

Thank you so much for everyones support, in the past few days I have recieved dozens of calls from hunters and outfitters who relate the exact same experience with Juan Pace. I cannot believe that this man is still in business, he is an absolute disgrace to the proffesional hunting industry and a parasite amongst law abiding and decent outfitters.

Hopefully we can weed out people like this as they are what must be the biggest threat to the South African hunting industry and how it is percieved by the international market.

Thanks again for everyones calls and emails!

All the best regards,

Engee Potgieter

"Eisssshhh my bru..."
Sorry to hear of your experience / bad luck / **&^$*$!!!! with this guy.

PS: "Trek hom kaalgat uit" !!!

Engee,

Obviously you are distancing youself from Juan. After you posted all of the warnings in the past hour it made me remember a couple of things.

First, you and Juan Pace were above reproach. If anybody questioned anything you were mostly insulting towards that person.

Second, you hunted Juan's SA ranch and there were no issues mentioned. Now that you have not been paid (allegedly) it is a problem.

Third, I remember reading a post that you boooked these hunts as favors to people you know. Now you are saying Juan allegedly) did not pay you.

You once even accused me of wanting a free hunt. That was utterly ridiculous. However since I have been told by a couple of outfitters you want free hunts and are not afraid to ask.



My two questions are:

One, How many hunters did you book that will not be able to hunt and lose their deposits.

Two, If they lose their deposits will you as the booking agent who vouched repeatedly for Juan refund their money?

Mike,

Yes I was adamant that all the hunts were above board as everything pointed that way after I had researched Juan Pace, the property I hunted on in Febuary this year was great, it wasn't geared toward bow hunting, but it is a beautiful property. There was a fair amount of game but I hadn't expected to see much anyway seeing as it was in the middle of summer. The second visit where Juan had clients in camp showed a very different picture.

I had sold 4 hunts with absolutely no commision after which Juan offered to pay me a fee, after that 8 more hunts were booked with deposits paid. These hunts are going ahead as I have gone out of my way to get the transferred to other outfitters, outfitters who Juan was working with and had subsequintly also cheated out of an incredible amount of money, they are now cutting him, the bad apple out of the loop. The hunts are going ahead as planned and NO ONE has or will lose any money.

Lastly, the tone of your post and baseless attack toward my person, is again, not only childish, but you sir have absolutely no right to pass judgment on me. If you are the type of person who makes up your mind and takes subsequint decisions based on rumors and speculations that you had heard second hand then I dont see what you are doing in the hunting industry. Trust me when I say the following, through experience I have found that as soon as you stand up for something, dont get influenced or intimidated by guys much like yourself, that you are bound to piss a few guys off. To you and the "outfitters" claiming that I want free hunts, I say, whatever makes you feel more superior. Jealousy mixed with a touchy ego is a funny thing dear Mike.

Hey Engee, Mike70560 asked a legitimate question, your tone and your quick defensive attitude makes one wonder, also your attack on Mike is uncalled for, just answer his questions and all will be O.K
Martin

Hey Martin,

If I wanted your opinion I would have asked for it. Let your friend Mike handle his own fights, you either don't remember or are obviously not aware of the personal attack he launched on me last time through the Threads I posted as well as through PM's. So I say again, stay out of it, this issue certainly does not concern you.

Engee Potgieter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by INGOZI

Hey Martin,

If I wanted your opinion I would have asked for it. Let your friend Mike handle his own fights, you either don't remember or are obviously not aware of the personal attack he launched on me last time through the Threads I posted as well as through PM's. So I say again, stay out of it, this issue certainly does not concern you.

Engee Potgieter

---

Engee,

I am really beginning to become worried about you as you are becoming confused or maybe even a little delusional. Your comments back to Martin and to me have been very representative of your attitude since you started selling hunts on AH. Any time anybody (and not just me) questioned anything about a hunt we were given the same basic response as you gave Martin. You seem to forget, as you have in the past, this is a forum for discussion. No need to ask for an opinion from anybody, they will be freely given.

I admit my question from above was contentious and done to draw a response. However in the past I felt the hunts being offered in Zim were suspect. That is where the rift started. I will always question those posts as I have done with other agents and on other boards.

As far as the "attacks" by "PMs" every correspondence I have had with you was on the board. I never remember sending or receiving a PM to/from you nor an email. That was one of my points throughout your posting hunts that you wanted to operate on email and not be transparent on the forum as to what was going on.

I make my living in another business; I have never derived any money from hunting. I have spent tonnes of money hunting and will continue to do so. I think Martin responded because we are friends and he knows how ridiculous your comments about me having ego and being jealous truly are.

One more thing, if you were able to service your hunters for no additional cost to them my hat is off to you. That was the true point of the question. Too often booking agents make promises and vouch for the greatest operator on earth and when things go bad they just disappear.

This will be my last post on the subject as I can deny and accuse as you can also. I have asked my questions and made my points, and even admitted I was being a little inflammatory in this thread. Go ahead and respond as that was a forum is intended for.

Mike,

Thank you Mike, I just feel that the issue here is about a fraudulent outfitter which I personally found out the hard way, I have subsequintly spent more time and money ensuring that the hunters I had sent to him still get A+ service from other outfitters, I feel that it is the least I could do.

Bottom line is I don't like being accused or attacked and your "loaded" posts has the habit of rubbing me the wrong way, which I'm pretty sure you intended them doing. Lets just agree to disagree, I'm not on your ass about anything and everything you post, have the courtesy to do the same, as I don't work with you or for you, if you don't like something I do then it is your full right, keep it to yourself.

This will also be my last comment on the apparent issue Mike and his buddy Martin has,

Thank you,

Engee Potgieter

Well I have been following this thread with some interest and let me say first-off that I'm not "buddies" with any of the parties involved. My comments below are purely observations from my perspective and whilst nobody asked me for my opinion this IS a public board and that being the case anyone who posts on a public board should be doing so with the knowledge that such posts may illicit responses from others.... AND whilst such responses may not always be what the original poster had been expecting - this is a risk he took when he decided to make his post originally.

With that being said...

Engee, my hat is off to you for "eating humble pie" and coming out with the "truth" (or your version of it) about the individual involved...

Yet; the issue of questionable hunts in (amongst others) Zimbabwe has been raised and discussed at length here on AH and other forums. So when you started advertising hunts in Moz and Zim readers were naturally a little aprehensive about them and asked legitimate questions - to which - I have to say - you sometimes responded slightly inappropriate and often failed to answer the questions posed directly.

It speaks for itself that now that the "truth" about this Outfitter was brought to light by you - some members here would remember past exchanges regarding the subject. And adopting a defensive (almost attacking) attitude in response does little towards your credibility.

What I'm interested to know is this:

Mr Pace owes you some ZAR80K in commission and my assumption is that the 8 clts you had booked for him had already paid their deposits. Now if Pace owes you the commission I have to assume that the deposits were paid directly to him and not to you...You also say that you managed to save the clients' hunts by moving their hunts to other Outfitters.

My question is: "What happened to the clients' deposits?" Are these still with Pace? And does this mean you paid the clients' deposits to the replacement Outfitters out of your own pocket?

Good day to all

I am posting this not only satisfy but also to ask people to get a bit of a better understaning of the situation.There have been rumours that Jaun have been at this for a while.He have gone hunting with a certain company in the Zambesi delta where he booked Buffalo for his clients however he did not even do effort in looking for them since it where to "wet".The outfitter of the concession left Jaun to his own since he where considered reputable and Jaun where to look after the camp since the owner had other responsibilities to attend to.

Well we all know about where that have left every one instead f going after the buffalo he decided that it is easier to shoot the only 3 hippo on quota that where booked and paid for by other clients.The end result is that the outfitter have gone and laid charges with authorities and notified the clients.Jaun have taken monies from clients for trophy export and never paid it over to any-one in Mozambique so the clients trophies are still there a year later.

Jaun has never and will never own concessions in Mozambique he has been working off other outfitters there.And we all know what will happen if outfitters or concession owners dont get paid. The trophies stays there and will not be shipped to the clients it is irrelevant if Jaun got paid and he did not pay the outfitter but lets be realistic nobody will invest money if he wont get anything in return.

I have further heard that what Engee said is true with regards to him getting clients other outfitters, I have heard that the 1 outfitter that are taking some of the clients took them on the bases of satisfying the clients and not Jaun (hopefully it will be turning out as it should)I suspect that the clients will hopefully be able to tell us how the hunts turned out, I do have a lot respect for Engee coming up with all of this, it would be nice if Jaun could come on here and at least comment on it but he is absent in all his glory

Hi guys.

As ingwe1 said he is absent in all his glory!!!

I was allso following this treads where my name are been battered by Mr Potgieters so called facts.Now that everybody has made their comments and asked their questions and felt sorry for Mr Potgieter, I would like to give you my side it this story.

As you all know,Mr Potgieter have marketed some of my hunts on AH from January 2011.He allso done a hunt on Leopards Lair Estate from where i do all my hunting in RSA.Something very interesting is,everything went very well and Mr Potgieter was determent to sell my hunts.Mr Potgieter have even done a good hunting report on this visit to Leopards Lair Estate as seen on AH.

NOW THE QUESTION COMES FORWARD! Why the sudden change of heart and where did things go wrong.Mr Potgieter makes a lot of statements that i hope he can prove as such.I just want to clarify some facts and give some missing detail so that every one can make up their own opinion of these statements.

Firstly Mr Potgieter only mentioned the negative facts,so i hope to fill in the blanks.

Well ,Mr Potgieter has been visiting my hunting area earlier this year to see if it was viable to convert it a bowhunting area only.Mr Potgieter have put a positive hunting report after his visit to Leopards Lair Estate on AH.During April i have asked Mr Potgieter to revisit the farm and supply me with any suggestions regarding bow blinds layouts at the water hole and the building of permanent structures at the water holes.

Middle of May Mr Potgieter gave me a qoute of R50000 to erect 4 permanent bow blinds on the property,which would include all materials,labour and site layouts.

We aranged dates(1 to 10 june) for him to visit the farm and erect the structures as we had agreed upon.

While i was collecting clients at the airport in JHB on 2 June my head PH,IZAK VOS was on his way to Leopards Lair Estate to prepare the lodge for the arriving clients.While at the airport i received a phone call from Izak reporting that Mr Potgieter together with a friend have already arrived earlier that morning.Acording to Izak Mr Potgieter and his friend was no where to be found,but late in the afternoon Mr Potgieter and his friend arrived at the lodge dressed in hunting cammos with their bows.Well, the news came to me that Mr Potgieter and his friend was hunting on the property and not erecting any bow blinds.As you already know,the agreement was to erect permanent bow blinds and not hunting while we are haveing clients in camp.When i arrived at the camp late that night i found out that Mr Potgieter have shot a Impala trophy ram.As it was very late,i did not have time to address the situation.The following morning Mr Potgieter and his friend set out very early to go do some hunting.So myself and my staff did not get the chance to speak to Mr Potgieter regarding his hunting trip and the building of the blinds.

As the hunt progressed, i have arranged for the carcasses to be sold as the cooler got to full capacity.At that stage we were hunting out on neighbouring hunting areas and my staff attended to the loading of the carcasses onto the vechile.

On my return late afternoon i learned that Mr Potgieter and his friend stopped the truck and he removed the 4 impala carcasses from the vechile and loaded it onto his own vechile.Mr Potgieter and his friend packed hurriedly and left the farm without informing anybody that he are leaving the farm.Allso he took the 4 impala trophies without permission.

After that specific hunt myself and my 2 PH s left for Zimbabwe on a hunt .After arriving back home i received many emails from Engee requesting i pay him R12000 for 2 popup blinds and a bow bud that he left on Leopards Lair Estate.My wife even emailed him back stating that i am out of the country and will contact him when i get back to RSA.Before i could contact Mr Potgieter, i received treatening emails that if i do not pay him the R12000 for the popup blinds he would go onto public forum and give me a bad name.Further i allso received 2 phone calls from a Piet Swart regarding the R12000.

After expaining that i cannot use the popup blinds and bow bud i suggested to this Piet Swart that i will resend the popups to Mr Potgieter as i am not going to pay for them.My agreement with Mr Potgieter was to erect permanent structures and do a site layout for which i would pay him.I can buy the exact same popup blinds for R2850 a peace,why then pay R12000 for it.After this i was been informed by friends that Mr Potgieter are putting treads on forums that are misleading and not true.


Here is some more facts to clarify things further.Mr Potgieter has booked 2 hunts for me in Mozambique(Dennis roelinger and Sam Daniels) for the amount of R90000( 2 buff packages at R45000 each as advertized on AH)Where he comes to 8 hunters still puzzeles me.His commision was R13500 for these hunts.

Secondly i have sponsered Mr Potgieter a buffalo hunt FOR FREE in Moz for advertisement purposes.Can Mr Potgieter further give us proof of the R25000 deposit that he said he paid over to me,please provide a copy of bank transfer,hunting contract or payment slip!!!If not , YOUR HUNT WAS NOT BOOKED!Thus how could i steel a deposit of R25000 that was a free hunt,please explain this to me.Allso dont tell me Mr Potgieter paid a cash deposit.

Then a fair question to Mr Potgieter,if we had a agents contract drawn up by a third party laywer,why did we never sighn it and who is this third party person.You could have posted or emailed me such a contract if it have existed!

Mr Potgieter,as you said,if you have done your homework correctly on me or my operations,why then the sudden change of heart!
I can tell you why my friend<you have taken me for a ride on the building of the bow blinds and when i did not bite in your lure,now you are trying to bad mouth me and my operations.

Yes Mr Potgieter,please tell the people that i have billed you R19000 for the 4 impalas that you shot together with the the kudu bull that you wounded on 80 yards with your bow and allso for your luxuriuos stay for you and your friend.Please allso tell the people that you were supposed to do bow blind layouts and built the permanent structures, and that you were not supposed to hunt during this time.Allso tell the people that i am with holding your commision of R13500 for the still outstanding account with my company.Then further, if i have done any misconduct regarding guiding my clients or any other ilegal thing (regarding to your aligations that we hunt out of helicopters and shoot caged animals at night), please do not hesitate to report such misconduct to the offices of nature conservation and PHASA.I think they will find this very amused my friend.If you dont have their contact detail, i can gladly supply it to you.If your facts are correct, i chalenge you to make a official report,you will do us all the faviour!

Then further please provide me with names of outfitters and hunters which i have done in,it is very easy to make things up such as false staements my friend.Any one can gladly contact any of my PHs that was on these hunts that you say was so bad.They were allso there when you ilegally hunted on my property,you can contact Izak Vos and Leo von Reiche They can testify to your facts that are sucked out of your thumb.

Mr Potgieter,just so you know,you have never sold 8 or more hunts for me but 2.Further more you are not changing any clients to other outfitters as these to gentlemen are still hunting with my company in Moz,that i can confirm to you in writing.I will confirm that no client have lost any deposit with my company and i can prove to anyone that all hunts are going as planned.Mr Potgieter,if you are in any way asisting so called hunters,please put their names and contact detail on this tread,maybe i can contact them so they can book directly with me , so you may just earn some extra commision.

In the insident i was made out as a poacher,lier and a thief.But Mr Potgieter failed to supply the people with all the facts as why i have not paid the R12000 and your R13500.
Furher more Mr Potgieter, i can assure you,come tomorow,and i will start my own legal action against you and i will keep this forum updated thereoff.I can make you a promise,you started a war and you better be prepared to go all the way.

I just want answer Mikes question as well.
1)Engee have booked 2 hunts for me and both are still going on as planned,i have meantioned their names earlier.No deposits are been lost!
2)As said, no deposits are been lost,these 2 hunts are been conducted during August and September.I am very sure both these gentlemen with put a hunting report on this forums as they are active AH members.

Then on Chris Troskies questions the following.
Again now deposits are lost,the 2 hunts are still going on.Mr Potgieter have not moved any hunts of any clients,how does he knows what are going on in my buisiness!Regarding the commision,it was already answered.

Then ingwe 1.
To start with,please state your names so that i can know who you are please.
Can i ask if you were there during the hunt in the zambezi delta as you allso state that as of the wet conditions neither me nor my staff did any effort to look for buffalo!!!
Then further dear ingwe1,it seems that you have all the inside info all together here.Can you allso confirm that the 1 client did not want to shoot his buffalo and exchanged his buffalo for a hippo and then allso shot a second hippo for which he paid.Further i have exchanged a 3 rd hippo for a buffalo as the specific client has not got a buffalo on the last day as gentleman as i was offered him a hippo to get something back worth the money that he paid for,wouldnt you have don the same if it was your client.For your information,the concession owner could get more hippo from the provincial qoutas if we needed another. Regarding your statement that i took money for trophy exports and never paid these over to any body,i think you should make very accurately sure of the facts my friend.I will put all the client contact detail here so anyone can contact them regarding such.

Unfortunatly the specific concession in the delta had no buffalo on qouta as the owner promised to have,there for together with the wet conditions i have shifted some of my clients to zimbabwe and other areas of moz, so yes i have used another area and outfit.at the end it is the client welfare that comes first.So dear Ingwe 1, if you need anything else please just ask and dont make asumptions on gossip .

Any body can now make their dicision on this matter as you have both sides of the stories but i am still open to questions and coments.
regards
juan

Your sheer ignorance and absolute sheer childishness is shocking Juan, where you come up with these figures and "facts" are beyond me and only serves to add to the fact that you must be delusional. Please show us ONE client who you have guided on a successfull Mozambique hunt, just ONE who does NOT have an issue with you, please show us just ONE outfitter who is still willing to work with you after having dealt with you. Steps have been taken against you, and you will soon get what is coming to you. It is funny how my experience is one and the same as has been with the following people, whom I suggest anyone first contacts before doing ANY business with Juan Pace, Outfitters who have been done in by you include the following:

Johan Strauss Mozambique Operator.
Albert Smith of Artemis Safaris
Gideon Jacobs of Catungureni Safaris
and Nick Van Zyl of Bushmen Safaris

I should actually be lucky you did not swindle me out of the shocking amounts you did these poor Outfitters, you and I both know the truth Juan Pace, you are a thief, a liar and a scoundrel and as such have NO PLACE in the profesional hunting industry. People like you should be weeded out if our hunting industry is to thrive, and although you have taken me and the gentelman above for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Rands, I will make sure you wont ever cheat anyone else.

Btw. Your misconduct has been filed with both Safari Club International and PHASA and I truly hope that they take swift and decisive action against you before you do any more damage to our proffesion.

Engee Potgieter

Dear Mr Potgieter, i thank you again for your swift reply on this tread.I may be childish and arogant acording to you,but so be it as every one has their own opinions in life.Regarding the facts and figures,if you can prove otherwise , please do so.I have my facts and figures all together here and have placed them here on.For the Mozambiqian hunts,dear Mr Potgieter every hunt from last season was featured on outdoor channel in the USA ,if you need confirmation off these i suggest you contact outdoorchannel or i will send you copies of the shows.I think this will speak for itself regarding the outcome of all these hunts guided by me or my staff.Regarding the gentlemen you have mentioned here.
Firstly Mr Johan Strauss, i have never met nor do i know him,allso have never done buisiness with such a person.
Albert Smith are known to me .Further i just had a very interesting phone conversation with Mr Gideon Jacobz.I think you will find his coming post on this thread very amusing my friend .Regarding bushmen safaris,if i took a sent from them unlawfully,please let them state that in writing.bushmen safaris have paid their account with me and artemis.allso their hunts were featured on outdoor channel.
Further more Mr Potgieter,i allso had several phone calls today regarding your rumours here.You may call me what you like Mr Potgieter,but first take the needle out of your own eyes and see the truth you are missing here.As for yourself Mr Potgieter,this industry dont need such guys like yourself, you will at the end be your own down fall here.I will further not call you any names nor will i waste my time on you,i have stated my facts and i am pleased there with.You will in due time answer to your aligations that you made here and elsewhere.I whish you all the best of luck in life and i look forward to what may come from this in the next few days.Then for the people that have read this thread, i want to apologise on behalf of Mr Potgieter for being so childish and arrogant with his personal vendetta hereon.I will no longer take part herewith and make myself dispucuable.

best regards
juan