Kudu Rifle

Thanks Jaco.

Ole Colonel Whelen had Africa in mind when he came up with the idea and it did a great job. It never took off here either, but persisted sufficiently to finally get accepted as a commercial load in the late 80s. I had mine built on a VZ-24 Czech Mauser action with Douglas Premium 24" barrel, Timney trigger and safety, and put on a nice piece of California Claro walnut with Cocobolo forend and gripcap. Topped it off with a Burris Signature Series 1.5-6 Electrodot scope. I still haven't hunted with it, but am looking forward to doing so.

BTW, have you folks ever been contacted by anyone from the Saints Louis County Sheriff's Department? I made some phone calls a month ago to find what authorities might have jurisdiction over these these cretans at Tusks and Hide Safaris who scammed you and other outfitters on their advertising deal and ultimately found it was the St. Louis County Sheriff's Department. I gathered up the identities of all the outfitters who noted they were taken, and passed that and other pertinent information to them. The Deputy I was in contact with passed it all on to an investigator. Because I'm not a victim the investigator won't contact me. But I was just curious if they've done anything. I've heard nothing from the various outfitters who were taken for a ride.

Just curious because people like that piss me off. Wanted to see what we could do on this side to help you folks out.

I too am a fan of the Whelen round. Had one built on a Sauer 98 action with Shilen barrel once. Shot very well. Sold it to help finance my third safari, never saw it again. Bummer. The idea that Whelen had no hand in the developement of his namesake cartridge has apparently been recently somewhat debunked according to my newer edition of Cartridges of the World. I had always thought it was Howe of Griffin and Howe who was the main developer, but maybe not. Either way its a fine round capable of anything the 9.3x62 is in the way of game getting unless perhaps on the heaviest game where the 9.3 has access to heavier bullets. There are custom bullet makers that will make a 300 gr bullet for the Whelen in which case the difference between the two is really very little and no animal could tell the difference. As loaded by the factory's the 9.3x62 is doubtless a little bit more versatile but for the handloader, the difference is slight.

Double Tap puts out four loads and they come VERY close to the 9.3mm Mauser's specs. On the lower end, the .35 Whelen is far milder. All the loads I saw commercially for the Mauser range from 3500 ft lbs to 3800 ft lbs, while those for the .35 Whelen ranged from 3000 ft lbs to 3400 ft lbs for most ammo makers, and Double Tap's coming in from 3500 to 3700 ft lbs.

From what I understand, Colonel Whelen came up with the idea and he conferred with Howe who built him a gun and made up the cartridges for testing. So, while actually 'built' by Howe, it was Whelen's baby. Whelen thought it might make a good Africa cartridge and it proved to be that. I understand Whelen hunted in Africa with it.

ILCAPO, have not been contacted yet dont know about the others, I will see wether contact can be made while I am in the US, once again thanks for all the help and time that you have invested.

My best always!

My pleasure Jaco. It would please me to no end to see a resolution to this issue in your favor. Although I'm pessimistic about the outcome considering no one appears to have been contacted. Quite frankly, I don't know what they're doing, if anything. Can't see how it could be more than five weeks and yet the department hasn't tried contacting anyone yet. Having been a police officer myself, I know the first step in such an investigation would be to make direct contact with the alleged victims and get statements. First contact should have been by letter requesting you provide the details of what happened, when and how much you've lost. I'm puzzled by the silence. I hope they aren't blowing it off as low priority.

When and where are you planning to be in the US?

@HDP Safaris. Hallo Ruhan. Your experience with the .375H&H solids exclaims the statement: Horses for couses! The 375 solids are not for "soft" skinned animals to "prevent" meat damage as the biltong shop owner told you! Your experience is a lesson learned well, because you recoverred your qaurry but will not make the same mistake as you stated. Your observation is 100% correct concerning the use of solids. Using a solid high through the lungs is just a bit better than poking the animal with a bicycle spoke. A premium expanding bullet is always better on any game animal shot in the vital tri-angle. I like to shoot (if the shot is presented) at a spot in a line just behind the front leg, in the middle of the body where both lungs are hit and the animal expires quickly. The meat damage with such a shot is negligible (because it only hits ribs) but the shot is very effective. The only animal I shot with a solid was a zebra (to protect the skin) but the shot was through the heart and it ran about 50 meters where it collapsed.

Hi Jaco Z.

Yes a lesson well learned. It was the first time I actually went out to shoot animals for someone else and seeing as the man was an experienced hunter himself, and me being much younger myself I reserved my ideas out of reverence for his years of hunting knowledge.

I know from hunting all these years that solids are not meant to reduce meat damage, they are for penetration on thick skins (as you said) and heavy bone...charging elephant and buffalo etc but I went ahead with it and learned. Its simple, I will stick to softnose and no meat farmer or anyone will make me use solids to 'reduce' meat damage because it only increases a chance for a follow-up shot, which would further damage, and this comes at the peril of the animal which is a no-no in my books.

I believe the animals we hunt provide us with the greatest service and that they make the greatest sacrifice of us all, so we should at least be doubly sure about our capabilities, our rifles, and the ammo we use.

When I hunt I carry all ammo in the mag and not the +1 in the chamber like some hunters prefer, then I also always put a softnose first then the rest solids for possible follow-up shots. If I shoot and down the animal, and carry on hunting in the same tour, I replace the softnose cartridge I spent with another softnose and proceed. The solids I use at the shooting range and for follow-ups.

Originally Posted by Jaco Zeeman

@HDP Safaris. Hallo Ruhan. Your experience with the .375H&H solids exclaims the statement: Horses for couses! The 375 solids are not for "soft" skinned animals to "prevent" meat damage as the biltong shop owner told you! Your experience is a lesson learned well, because you recoverred your qaurry but will not make the same mistake as you stated. Your observation is 100% correct concerning the use of solids. Using a solid high through the lungs is just a bit better than poking the animal with a bicycle spoke. A premium expanding bullet is always better on any game animal shot in the vital tri-angle. I like to shoot (if the shot is presented) at a spot in a line just behind the front leg, in the middle of the body where both lungs are hit and the animal expires quickly. The meat damage with such a shot is negligible (because it only hits ribs) but the shot is very effective. The only animal I shot with a solid was a zebra (to protect the skin) but the shot was through the heart and it ran about 50 meters where it collapsed.

Gents,
Solids have their place, and I agree with most that has been said here. There is however few better options than a .375 loaded with solids on game like Steenbok, Red Duiker and so forth.
The little guys just dont like being poked with rapidly expanding bullets as it tends to open them up and ruin a good cape.

Best Regards
Marius Goosen

I am flying on the 3rd will be in Atlanta, Vegas, Dallas, Houston, Palacios Tx, West Virginia-charleston, Harrisburg and around the Keys.

O ja happy new year, spending my last day with my wife and daughter.:-(

My best always.

Gents,
Solids have their place, and I agree with most that has been said here. There is however few better options than a .375 loaded with solids on game like Steenbok, Red Duiker and so forth.
The little guys just dont like being poked with rapidly expanding bullets as it tends to open them up and ruin a good cape.

Best Regards
Marius Goosen

Agreed 100% good point.

My best always

I realize that this thread is a bit old, but I'm going to throw in my 2cents. In Namibia last year, I took my 9.3x62 Steyr Mannlicher loaded with 286 gr Norma Oryx and Hornady SP-RP...both to about 2350 ft/sec. Let me tell you, I was not disappointed. I shot 13 animals...7 oryx, 1 zebra, 1 springbok, 3 warhogs, and a red hartebeest...Didn't see a shootable kudu but I'm sure result with a good shot would've been the same. All were one shot kills and all but 2 dropped in their tracks. The 2 that ran were both oryx...one with a high lung shot ran 100 meters and one with a perfect shoulder shot ran 40 meters...both dead at the end of their run. The rest were DRT. I expected the warthogs and springbok to be pretty quick downs but the oryx, zebra, and hartebeest also looked like they were struck by a thunderbolt - traditionally tough animals. Shots ranged from 60 meters to 200 meters and distance did not seem to be a factor for killing power out to that distance. I have also used my 9.3 on European game like wild boar and red stag and the results are usually the same...DRT...no twitches, no nothing. Shot placement is key, but I can't believe the effectiveness of this round. I feel comfortable using this on anything in the world up to (and maybe even including) cape buffalo. FWIW, recoil is not bothersome in the field at all..on the bench it'll wake you up but in the field I never noticed it. This seems to be one of the all-time great killing cartridges without a lot of fuss. I am a firm believer and my 9.3 will be with me on every trip I take to Africa from now on....as well as for moose, bear, or elk, or whatever I'm hunting that is on the big side of whitetail on up.

I've heard great things about the 9.3x62 Mauser. In fact, it's been mentioned more than once in this string regarding being a good Kudu gun.

When I finally get to Africa, I will be bringing a gun chambered for another cartridge similar to the 9.3 simply because I have it already and there isn't enough difference to make it worth while adding the 9.3 to my hunting battery. That's my custom built .35 Whelen. I had it made some years ago for hunting elk, but never had a chance to hunt with it. Elk hunting has become so expensive now for out-of-state hunters I don't know if I'm ever going to get to do it again. I used to live in Colorado, but now that I'm in Virginia, and the out of state tags are now like $750.00, and being I'd need a guide and outfitters want about the same for a single animal hunt here as for a five or six animal plains game hunt in Africa, I'm more interested in saving up for a safari.

The .35 Whelen, when using the hotter rounds by Double Tap, is very close to the 9.3x62's ballistics. With the standard rounds, it's more mild, but still hits with greater authority than its parent cartridge, the .30-06, which itself is no slouch.
Speaking of the .30-06, that will be the other rifle I'll be bringing.

"Use enough gun"...I agree that Kudu are not as tough as Elk, but they will still take a beating if the shot is not perfect.

I far prefer a 30-06 or bigger with 168 TSX or heavier bullets.

Kudu are soft in my humble experience !

Anything will do, but .270 + is wise, just in case.

Kudu lives in the thick stuff. Hit him wrong and you will find out why they call him the gray ghost of Africa. I am on nr 49 for kudu. Hopelfully this winter I will get to my half century. Nothing less than a 300 Win Mag. Trust me.

The 9.3x62 is a great hunting cartridge
I plan to poke a Kudu bull with an arrow this year

Can say that I have over 100 with 270 and Nosler 140gr Balistic Tips. Never had one go out of sight before it fell, most dropped on the spot.

Do like hunting them.

Originally Posted by Nyatiboss

Kudu are soft in my humble experience !

Anything will do, but .270 + is wise, just in case.

What you said is what I saw and heard about the 9.3x62. Never heard a negative word on this calibre. For buff with the 9.3x62, as you said, shot placement.

Originally Posted by saeng101

Can say that I have over 100 with 270 and Nosler 140gr Balistic Tips. Never had one go out of sight before it fell, most dropped on the spot.

Say it's not true! (lol).....a ballistic tip being a deadly bullet. Should be plenty for a kudu.

I am glad to see there are 35Whelen fans out there. I was going to post on this thread sometime back, but, figured everyone knew what caliber I was going to suggest. Yeah 35Whelen....