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As I previously posted I will hunt elephant in 2010. With the talk of banning lion hunting I am already thinking about lion for 2011.
What country and area would you hunt lion and why? No hunting behind fences, no drugged lions, and daylight hunting only.
Cost is a consideration but not the most important.
Thanks in advance.
There are a few areas in several countries that produce good lion, but overall I would say Tanzania is the best bet for high success rate and quality lions.
As far as prices, well there just aren't any cheap lions. It is pretty much a $45,000-$50,000 touch any way you slice it.
I am the same as you with the hunt requirements...............if I could afford a lion hunt, which I can't, I would never even contemplate taking one behind high-fence. The thought of it leaves me cold.
I've been following a debate on AR about the "canned lion hunts" in South Africa. Yes, there is a high fence...it keep the plains game in as well. It's a huge concession....I don't know how may acres but it's 10's of thousands. The lions are not drugged, the are not socialized to humans...what's the rub? How is shooting a deer in Texas on a fenced concession, over a water hole, near a feeder, from a fixed & elevated blind more sporting that shooting a captive bred lion that has a higher chance of a charge than a wild lion so horrible?
Each to their own KB. It is a personal choice each hunter has to make.
I do not hunt deer behind high fence in Texas or elk behind high-fence in Saskatchewan either, and I never will. That is just my personal choice.
It is always a contentious issue and that is because the high-fenced areas are not all huge areas. I know an outfitter in RSA that hunts lions in a high fenced area of less than 3000 acres. Where do you draw the lion....ah, I mean line on what is enough?
I am not saying I am right about this, but it is how I feel about it. It would be no different than me hunting a grizzly bear in a high-fenced area......not a chance. But I know there are lots of guys that would. The same as there are guys shooting dall sheep and mountain goats on a high fenced hunting preserve in the Dakotas.
It may well be in years to come, if some really constructive things do not happen in the near future, that hunting lion behind high-fence will be the only way you will hunt lion. There are those that will do it and don't have any issues with it, I just won't be one of them.
Skyline I get your point completely. I didn't know that some of the concessions are so small.
That is just something that's been bothering me. All the anger toward there affordable lion hunts when there, IMHO is no difference to the Midwest/Texas style of whitetail hunts, the elk behind high-fence in Saskatchewan, & the sheep in the Dakotas.
Thanks for your input,
I'm definitely no pro on the subject but my dad had been on 2 lion hunts before finally harvesting a nice lion on his 3rd hunt for the magnificent beasts (Zambia for sure once, maybe twice there or the other hunt might have been somewhere else, I can't recall as I was only about 13 at the time of his first hunt.. I'm only 20 now). Anyways, We saw a lot of lion in Tanzania while we were there, that was SUCH an incredible and memorable hunt! 1 maneless male we spotted every now and then that was extremely old and had the look of an absolute warrior, and the lion he finally harvested on the last week of the safari (with big time discomfort worrying he might go home empty handed again and have to save up again for yet another lion hunt) we found while walking the bush feeding on a big Giraffe he and his brother had killed. I'm assuming brother anyways as the lion my dad harvested and the lion that we could not get to leave after my dad dropped the one he did were truly identical (there was an exciting mock charge during the long standoff and some incredible displays of how gut wrenching the echoing roar of a mature male lion truly is).
Again, I'm not sure how each country compares with success on lion and where is producing the biggest lion, etc.. but I can tell you Tanzania is a country and trip that I will never soon forget about. Time fly's as that hunt was already 2 years ago but I remember it as if I had just gotten back. If I learn how to post pictures on here I'll post a couple up, I'll look into that right now. The free internet offered on military bases is anything but fast though, so I may not get them loaded by the time I have to get off.
Good luck with whatever you chose, make sure and let us know! And I'm already looking forward to hearing about that elephant hunt next year!! There is something I would LOVE to take part in some day!
I am thinking about Luwanga in Zambia and some of the new areas in Northern Moz. Curious of anybody has experience in those areas.
Tanzania would also be great especially in Masailand.
Buffalo in Tanzania
Elephant in Zimbabwe
Lion in ???
Leopard in ???
We now cannot hunt in Okavanga Delta which was on my list, I hope I do not miss lions as they are likely to go the way of tigers.
Mike,
indeed it is a concern to us all about the possibility of lion being upgraded on CITES and taking it off the hunting list. The threat is real and hopefully the policy makers see the sense in keeping the lion huntable, for the lions' sake.
In terms of destination choice, Tanzania would be your most mature destination, with Zambia alongside. They are both well known for exceptional lions. Botswana is also great but very costly and limited options on true success. Mozambique is definitely coming into the picture as a developed hunting destination, but still needs a little time to mature for a larger market. A few areas down there are now producing game consistently and of high quality, but you need to get all the angles covered.
I would like to give my take on your list of big four...
Buffalo - Tanzania
Lion - Tanzania
Elephant - Botswana
Leopard - Zimbabwe
I just might have something interesting for you in 2011. Cheers,
I don't agree with high fence hunting. Living in Texas and have hunted high fenced and low fenced properties, the closes thing to open range in Texas,for whitetail, hogs, and Mountain lions. On the high fenced properties it is well known where each particular animal tends to be, which all but assures a kill. With this you also know what your getting and there are some who are not in it for the experience but the for the wall art instead. When hunting low fences the same is true to an extent. There will be the local wildlife, but the key distinction is the OPPORTUNITY for a natural trophy to wander in. In short, a low fence requires hard work that place you in the right place at the right time to have the possibility, while a high fence simply buys off the possibility and replaces it with opportunity. All in all if the lion does go to canned hunts only I will feel deprived having not had the chance to pursue a true king.
I would highly recommend northern Mozambique I have been there a couple of times, because I am looking at getting a concession there, and the game that I have seen is of extraordinary quality. The frequently shoot 80-100 pound elephants. The lions that I saw were of excellent quality, and there were sable in abundance. Northern Mozambique is really a hunting destination to consider, and because the country is new to hunting there are some excellent trophies out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike70560
Oliver,
I like the idea of hunting Northern Mozambique for the same reasons you gave. The only problem is we cannot import ivory from Mozambique in to the states.
I am thinking about a hunt in Mozambique in September 2011. I am already booked for March of 2010 in Zimbabwe.
So many good destinations, so little money.
I send all my Lion hunting clients to Tanzania as that is where I have the best success and the best Lion, but we only have a small quota of Lion each year (2 or 3 as a rule) and ocassionally we can purchase a Lion permint from a neighboring concession..Lions, elephant come only on 21 day hunts by law. We have excellent elephant that run over 65 pounds and up to almost 80 for the best one so far. I personally prefer the Tanzania Elephants as the tusks are so long for the weight, although you do give up some mass.
The quality of Lion in Tanzania today is probably the best going, but the day of the old MGM Black maned beauty is about over IMO...
Hey Mike, got talked into joining here and thought I would see what this site was like, As you know I am not much for internet chat, but saw you were on here and thought I would post something.
There are good lion in just about every country and it really is about picking the right prime area with the right outfitter. Yes, Tanzania is a great country to hunt and my home country, and I do think it is the best all around destination to hunt. But, do not let others talk you out of other countries with the excuse that there are no good lions. Zambia has great lion quality, Mozambique has great lion quality, Zimbabwe has great lion quality as well. Again, the most important issue is booking in the right area! Each country has some great prime areas, and some poor areas. Of course the prime areas will cost more, but your success and quality will be much higher.
Leopard is not an issue and you can get a great leopard hunt in just about any of the normal countries. You just have decide if you want a baited hunt or with dogs and what your budget is. I would suggest to save money to just do the lion and leopard on the same safari as it would cost you more to do two different hunts.
Adam,
Good to see you on Africa Hunting.
Maybe we will add something (like leopard) to our elephant hunt next March. Then I can save some money for one of those big cats in Lokisale and Lobo.
Karamojo Bill:
The problem with some of the canned lion hunts in South Africa and Namibia is that too many are like put-and-take fishing: The cat is bought from someone who raised it in a small enclosure, then it is released before the client arrives and a "hunt" is staged. The word "staged" is appropriate because it often is conducted so well the client never suspects his trophy cat arrived in a trailer not long before he landed in the country.
Skyline:
I took a very good lion in Zambia's Mumbwa region in 1994 before the cost of hunting lions went crazy. I'd investigate Tanzania, for sure, but Zambia and Zimbabwe also offer good lions and (the last time I checked) at slightly better prices.
Bill Quimby
bill, do you have the names of outfitters in namibia running such operations? It is illegal in our country, please do not confuse us with our neighbours.Quote:
Originally Posted by billrquimby
A friend of mine went on a lion hunt in south africa, and made a video of it... When I saw the video, and saw the lion I new straight away that the lion was drugged before the hunter came there. The way this lion acted was not normal.
Karl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Stumpfe
Yes, I know at least one Namibian outfitter who operated that way in the past and PROBABLY would do so again. The practice was not uncommon before the BBC expose that led to SCI dropping lions from RSA and your country from its record books. The uproar that resulted after that BBC program also (I would assume) led to your country's ban on canned hunts.
No, I will not give you his name. I have no proof he still is involved in such things. I just know I would tell my friends to ask some hard questions before booking a hunt for a Namibian lion outside the Caprivi Strip.
Oliver:
Drugs are not needed for a canned lion hunt. All that is needed is to starve the lion for a couple of days, release it on a carcass, and then have a farm worker rush to "inform" the PH and client that a lion was just seen on a kill at such and such a place.
Bill Quimby
I have never hunted lion, and the way things look, I can only hope for some miracle to fall in my lap. Being an eternal optimist, I follow all threads concerning lion hunting and believe Ray and Bill have hit it on the head.
When I was in the Selous hunting buffalo, the night was filled with the song of the lion, sounds I will never forget, and think about daily.:)
I have been staying away from these talks of the canned lion stuff. Just reading trough the posts I must clear a point.
The last bit is totally incorrect for most african animals, animals dont get feed with timed feeders in Africa they move around as they please to survive, sure some older trophy animals tends to stay in a area but it's big enough and difficult enough to find him otherwsie everyone would walk away with top trophies.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOODOWD
No disrespect but people who think that high fenced hunts are the same all over the world should come hunt them first. If it wasnt for those fences we would not be in a situation now in both RSA and Namibia that there is more population of game outside game parks than in the parks themselves.
Then as for lion there are very few areas where you can find lions outside fences these days that doesnt break the bank. For me if a lion as been raised naturally in a environment where it had to take care of itself for his whole life and live a normal life fighting with other lions and so on then expcept for a fence in the area what is the difference. Then as for fences read below.
A quick tip when thinking that the lions are canned check the fence is it impossible for a lion to get trough ? Is the electric fence intensive ? If there are warthog or other game that go underneath the fence then surely lions can move as they please ! Remember lions are cats it takes quite a fence to keep them in, a normal high fence used for plainsgame will not stop any movement. Now you dont find a lot of areas like these a few to name private game reserves bordering the Kruger national park. Private reserves bordering the Kalahari gemsbok park. But whatever you do when booking that lion ask questions and double check with references.