Guidelines needed for hunt offers do you agree?
This is a discussion on Guidelines needed for hunt offers do you agree? within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the Hunting Forums - Hunting in Africa category; Now that i have your attention, please consider a few things. There have been a LOT of recent hunt postings ...
02-15-2011, 10:51 AM #1
Guidelines needed for hunt offers do you agree?
Now that i have your attention, please consider a few things. There have been a LOT of recent hunt postings offering rock bottom prices and hunting trips in exciting locations. Please, PLEASE make sure and check all the details out with the PH or agent offering the hunt. Some offers around the internet (not calling any particular person or group out) are in fact illegal by law, in reclaimed areas, with unlicensed PH's, etc. ASK the person offering the hunt for at least the minimum details and ask that they be posted publicly. If they don't want to do that there just might be a reason! Fishy things smell fishy. Suggestions for things to request when considering a hunt are:
Area to be hunted (including name of concession or ranch)
Who is the PH/Outfitter
Is the land owned by outfitter or privately leased (RSA, Namibia)
Is the concession held by the outfitter (other countries)
Are they licensed to operate in the area/country
How many actual hunting days vs. travel days
How many days do i pay full daily rate?
Primary Animal to be hunted:
Costs and options, if any, for transport from nearest commercial airport to include charter if necessary:
Lodging description, i.e., lodge, individual chalets, tent camp, ammenities , Meals, Guide fees libations included:
All fees for staff to include guides, cooks, drivers, etc. included:
Is hunting camp and/or hunting area exclusive for duration of hunt:
Any Trophy Fee's associated with hunt offered:
Optional Animals available for harvest:
Trophy fee for this/ these animals:
Any Additional costs not included in hunt price i.e., dip/pac, VAT, Gov't or conservation fees, taxes, etc. if applicable:
Are you a Booking Agent:
Are you the outfitter or P.H.:
Additional comments or features of hunt offered:
I hope this little guide helps you in your search for a great safari. There are loads and loads of great outfitters and great deals out there. Just do your homework and be smart before you spend your hard earned money.Tom
02-15-2011, 01:57 PM #2
I agree 100 Percent.
Sometimes it is hard to list the PH for a particular hunt but it would be easy to write "My primary PH's are Jack Smith, John Smith, and Jim Smith. It will depend on schedule as to whom is available"
We have seen hunts offered without the poster knowing the details. We have seen hunts offered by a poster that are actually third hand and cannot or will not give direct answers.
I even checked a reference on a hunt and the PH was not licensed for Zimbabwe. Of course the PH denied he was the PH, I guess the hunter was confused.
There are plenty of good operators in each country. There are plenty of bad ones particularly in Zim and now in Mozambique. Ask questions, be careful of references given by the outfitter. Contact the hunting organization for the country to hunted to make certain they are licensed to hunt in that country.
This is what I struggle with. Operator A is a legitimate operator. He runs anti-poaching year round. He invests time and money in his concession. He works with the tribal council and puts money back in the community. He is fully licensed.
Operator B is not licensed. He kicks a couple of dollars over to a corrupt parks official and makes a hunt. Just because there is a game scout does not make it legal.
As a client I save a couple of thousand dollars with Operator B but doom the safari industry.
And this is not to say all lower price hunts are illegal or corrupt.
Let the buyer beware.
02-15-2011, 03:52 PM #3
Tom & Mike,
As a commercial operator who posts hunts for sale on this site, I think you bring some excellent reccomendations to the table, and concede that in some of my past posts I may have myself ommited some of the feilds of requested data you list, something which will be rectified in future posts .
I also believe that any operator who could not provide at least the level of transperancy that you both list here, may not deserve the benifits provided by such a site.
02-15-2011, 05:20 PM #4
- Member of Northeast Wisconsin SCI chapter, Lifetime member of NRA,RMEF
- Hunted Namibia, South Africa (East Cape, Guateng and Limpopo)
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When people don't post enough information, I assume it's a game...and I don't want to play. It's alright there are plenty of outfitters out there that fit my criteria But I agree with what Mike and Tom said. I don't want some "newbie" to go to the wrong operation...that is a sad case indeed!
02-15-2011, 11:22 PM #5
- Member of Sask. Wildlife Federation
- Hunted Canada, Zambia, Azerbaijan, U.S., Japan, Kyrgyzstan
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Good points here guys. TOM that's a good list of suggestions. Jerome would know best but would it be possible to have a formatted list that the person offering the hunt would be required to include in their thread? The list would have several things that would eliminate a lot of the confusion that has popped up as of late. Things to be included would be date of the hunt and its length(specifying any travel days), what the cost is and what is included/excluded, species to be hunted, outfitter and PH, area to be hunted, all additional fees(i.e. dip & pack, taxes, charter fees, etc.). Feel free to give other suggestions. Does anyone else feel like this would be a good way to eliminate confusion and fishy offers?
02-16-2011, 01:09 AM #6
- Member of SCI and PHASA
- Hunted South Africa and Zambia
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Good post Tom.
As an Outfitter I feel it is important the we supply all potential clients with a detailed hunting offer listing all the ins and outs so that the potential client can make and clear assessment of what is actually on offer.
This will not only benefit the potential client but the person offering the hunt as well as it looks both professional and legitimate!
I can understand that certain people don’t want to post who they work with in another country and this is a two way street gentleman you get Zim guy’s that come to hunt plains game in South Africa as well there is nothing wrong with it providing it is done trough legal channels usually making use of a licensed PH of the particular country forms part of the criteria.
Mike some people are really giving the rest of us in SA who are trying to make an honest living a bad name I strongly resent the illegal involvement of South Africans in countries like Zim and Mos.
This might be a topic for the future though, but wise words from you none the less.
Louis van Bergen
02-16-2011, 07:24 AM #7
I would suggest we implement something soon or at least look into watching the outfitters forum closely. There is currently an offer available that the agent(???) refuses to answer any questions except by PM. That is shady now matter how you look at it.Tom
02-16-2011, 07:59 AM #8
- Member of NRA,Missouri hunters ed, SCI, Owensville Gun Club, Quail Forever
- Hunted USA, South Africa, France
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There have been quite a few people posting really good offers on this site, with the "Veteran African hunters" catching it right away. I have posted before that I actually enjoy reading some of these post, because when the Outtfiters/PH's and the veteran hunters catch onto it they tear into the guy, showing all of his faults and outright lies. Some of you guys are quite comical when you respond. It usually makes for a good read. But I also agree that, there should be some guidelines even before these guys can offer the hunt in question.Scott.
02-17-2011, 10:26 AM #9
Please check out this post which I just posted concerning the issues that are being discussed on this thread: New Rules for Posting in the Deals and Offers Sections
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