This is a discussion on Tanzania Antelope! within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the HUNT AFRICA category; I have been trying to figure out how to get most of the antelope species of Africa. Sorry, if that ...
03-24-2009, 03:54 PM #1
I have been trying to figure out how to get most of the antelope species of Africa. Sorry, if that isn't the correct term. I'm mostly a horn hunter and love to see different species of animals that have different shapes of horn for headgear. I know Tanzania has the gerenuk, grants gazelle, and thompson gazelle....etc. I'm just a average joe. Is there any way to hunt those animals cheaply in Tanzania without paying a arm and a leg ????
I would love to hunt lion, leopard, elephants and buffalo but don't have the money and may never for matter. But I would like to get most of the antelope species of Africa.
enyesse....................welcome to AH.
You have asked a very good question and one that I have hoped would be addressed at some point by some of the Tanzania operators. Unfortunately at this point in time.............as you already know.........most of those species are not available unless you book a 14-16 day safari, and that puts it out of reach for most of us.
I look forward to the comments from the Tanzania operators on this as I know there is a demand for such an option. I suspect logistics of operation in some areas has much to do with it, but surely it would be feasible in some hunting blocks. Perhaps with some lobbying to gov't............ ??
enysse... Tanzania will put a stop to any trophy collector! Positively because it has a number of species that are found exclusively within its' borders and negatively because it puts a high price tag to any collectors item. Not necessarily in trophy fee, but the legality and tourist hunting policy in place. The trophy fee for a particular species could be very reasonable, but the licenses needed to be able to hunt it, will make it out of reach. Having said that, it is not much of an issue for a hunter who has the finances to pursue a collection in Tanzania - in fact it works out better in the long run, as you can pursue everything Tanzania has to offer in one long safari of up to 28 days. But again, value is the big factor...
Grants and Tommy's can be hunted reasonably in northern Tanzania, but once you thrown in the gerenuk, oryx, lesser kudu, eland, sitatunga, roan, sable etc. then you are talking about a minimum 21-day safari cost.
In my particular patch of Tanzania - the Kilombero Valley - we have the Puku Antelope (of which 75% of the worlds population survives in the Kilombero Valley). The only other place you can find Puku is Zambia. On a 10-day buffalo hunt, after years of negotiating, we can finally offer the puku (10-year effort). So it is not easy to change policy down here, though it is a possibilty. In our area, we do not have abundant plains game, so the Puku is a positive attraction to our mostly Dangerous Game Hunters. Though we do have amazing success on out-of-the-ordinary species such as suni, red/blue/bush duiker, serval, genet, civet etc.
Back to your point - there is no cheap way to bag a collection of endemic antelope in todays, day and age. It never was cheap in the good old days either, but rather than monetary value, one had to risk the elements and put his life on the line to cover various parts of Africa.Ryan Shallom
Thanks for that detailed response Ryan.
I have e-mailed 6 different outfitters out of the SCI Safari times over the last couple monthes about the different plains games animals I would be interseted in hunting. You know I never even got a reply! It's obvious that if you aren't interested in the Big 5 they aren't interested in you.
The way the economy is I would think there would have to be outfitters looking for clients & that they would be trying to change things! I would think there has to be blocks out there for us horn hunters!
Calhoun, That is pretty sad! I had a similar experience a couple of years ago and it's amazing that these outfitters have not changed their tune yet in this economy... It has been fat cat city for hunting outfitters in Africa for quite a few years now and I think times are changing. Anyway no matter what it's just bad business to not respond to an email, at the minimum to just say "I'm sorry we don't have an opening available"... How hard is that?
Calhoun & Safari Hunter... what happened to you is not the way it should be and every hunter has his place in the field, no matter what the trophy objective. Not even responding is unacceptable. It is a real pity that some outfitters give a destination such a bad vibe and I must apologize as a Tanzanian.
After what you have experienced, I do not blame you for generalizing, but i assure you that there are a few outfitters who appreciate and serve 'hunters' for all the right reasons and not for the size of their wallet or the choice of game species. Needless to say, Tanzania and a majority of its' outfitters have built an image of over-pricing and arrogance. But for those hunters who are ready to look beyond the marketing tricks and seek Outfitters who are in this industry for hunting as a priority as opposed to marketing and commercial prowess, will get the best value for money and experience a real safari and positively memorable hunt.
Every block has something for someone and best is to establish what your priorities are and approach the various potentials who can serve your purpose. Someone who turns you away for wanting to hunt a horned animal alone, is not a genuine hunter. I have had people who have come to me specifically for Harveys Red Duiker and these have been some of the most extraordinary experiences in the field. Similarly with the puku, although less challenging in terms of stalking (due to their abundance in my area), but trophy quality comes into play and you suddenly find the challenge in getting the one that stands out amongst thousands.
Once again, i am sorry for the treatment you received from the people you approached and agree with you that nobody needs that kind of attitude in any kind of business or industry, let alone professional hunting. Let me know if there is anything that i can help you with, in your quest for the horned collection. Cheers,Ryan Shallom
03-31-2009, 07:38 PM #8
Hi Ryan, Thanks for the nice response! I understand things change very slowly in Africa. I agree with you...that if you took a long safari...getting lion and leopard and the other great animal of Tanzania....dollar cost averaging....it's not too bad compared to separate hunts in Zimbabwe, Botswana, and Zambia. It's just the initial investment that is out of reach for most people. I've talked to a few people at SCI conventions that have been to Tanzania and they told me have $75,000 ready and handy if you are going to hunt Lion, Leopard, Buffalo and a few of the the antelope on a 21-28 day hunt. I work at a wastewater treatment plant as a operator and can tell you that is not going to happen too soon. It's a dream to go there someday. And I always tell people...someday all you have is dreams and wishes.....but as steward of wildlife conservation I think hunting should have a better system of allegation....other than a ton of money.
Still Ryan, I love your professionalism and your comments on this website. They are really great to read!
Ryan, I should have mentionned that my experience was not with Tanzanian outfitters, I don't want to throw you under the bus. It was just that I sent several emails to outfitters in South Africa and Namibia and never got any reply from most of them, pretty ridiculous.
I've read a lot of your posts, checked out your website and when my time comes to hunt TZ you are at the top of my list. I really appreciate how you see things.
Safari Hunter... I am here for you whenever needed and if there is something that I cannot assist with personally, I will do my best to put you with someone credible and serve your best interests.
enysse... it is unfortunately true about a 'full bag' hunt in Tanzania. You are looking at an investment of approx. $70,000 for the big four and plains game. As a truly Tanzanian Outfitter, my policy is to offer the best value hunts to hunters worldwide and you will end-up paying usually 10-15% less by hunting with Wild Footprints for as good and in most cases, better all-round experience than most outfitters operating Tanzania.
To put things in pespective, you could pay $30,000 and have a real bad experience with no success (that still happens today and people get away with it) and you could also pay $150,000 and get most of what you want (but you would probably be hunting in a millionaires backyard - we have those in Tanzania too).
I agree that hunting should be accessible, but in places like Tanzania that notion is not realistic anymore as there are few local hunting enthusiasts and clients are almost entirely International, which makes the industry export based, marketing oriented and hence targeting the highest paying client. Governments have picked-up on this and now also impose high tariffs which give little room for flexibilty to outfitters who are in it for the passion of hunting.
For arguments sake, I charge only $2,500 all-inclusive for a 2-day puku hunt, but the government fee required is for a minimum 10-day license adding to $5,000, bringing the total to $7,500. Who would come all the way to Tanzania for a Puku and pay that???Ryan Shallom
04-01-2009, 06:27 PM #11
Hi Ryan, Can you spit consession fee and daily fees between 2 hunters in Tanzania? I noticed a hunting consultant in the U.S. is advertising this and says you just split the animals between the 2 hunters....and as long as you don't go over the species alotted for that hunt...I'm guessing a normal 1 hunter (big long hunt)...you could technically go to Tanzania and hunt some of the animals there....as long as you could split the animals between the two hunters. Are there logistics to what I'm refering too? Or is this just a bunch of lies? I'm not saying I can afford it anyway? I'm just trying to figure out how I could convince people to hunt in Tanzania.
enysse, splitting fees is NOT permitted in Tanzania. Having said that, I am one who believes that some rules unnecessarily discourage hunters and the rule against sharing a license is one of them. Please understand me here - it is not permitted, but it can be accommodated. Please contact me directly through my email for additional information.
Convincing people to hunt in Tanzania is not a tough task, if you steer away from the monetary factors. It is definately one of the best hunting destinations in the world. Nature is still what it has always been since the begining of time and in some places you experience unchanged cultures and customs, giving you a real safari back into time.
It is still very much a rugged country, with a variety of animals and habitats, a range of terrain and "wildlife" in the real sense of the term. The romance of East Africa is alive only in Tanzania. The country is blessed with a friendly people and peaceful nature which is unique to Africa and the Swahili language has united over 120 tribes into one thriving nation and one people. Over a third of the country has been set aside as wildlife protected areas - the future of african hunting lies with only a few countries today and Tanzania is one of them.Ryan Shallom
Ryan............I completely agree with you. The East African experience that all of us grew up reading about is available only in Tanzania and that is unlikely to ever change.
I also agree that the future of African hunting lies entirely with a handful of countries that still have large chunks of 'Wild Africa'. The development, maintenance and enhancement of these areas is a costly endeavour and these areas must provide value for the local people.
Safari rates in Tanzania are high, but so are the costs for hunts in Mozambique, Botswana, the Caprivi in Namibia and the central and western African countries offering safaris in remote areas for dangerous game and glamor species such as Bongo and Mountain Nyala. The unfortunate thing is that the vast majority of hunters who do travel to Africa to hunt, simply are not in the income bracket to go on a safari in these countries.
In coming years the governments of these countries, if they want their safari industry to survive, are going to have to sharpen their pencils a bit on the long list of government fees that they charge and give the operators more latititude in the packages and species they can offer. The sad truth is that times are changing and, to be blundt, I do not think that things are going to recover and return to the way they were in the last couple of decades.
Things had started to tighten up in the last half decade as it was, regardless of the current economic turmoil. Disposable income has simply vanished for many and now we have seen many thousands of people lose significant portions of their investments and pensions. The baby boomers and those already retired make up the vast majority of the client pool for all outfitters globally. Many of these people are never going to recover and return to that 'pool'.
There are of course the very rich who still have the money to take $50,000 to $150,000 hunts...............but they have always been a small fraction of the hunters out there. The vast numbers of middle to high income people that were the driving force as clients has shrunk and continues to shrink, the recession simply sped things up.
In the future operators are going to have to be creative and offer attractive packages that people can afford and it is essential that the governments recognize and understand what is happening and give them the tools to work with.
Last edited by Skyline; 04-03-2009 at 12:35 PM.
04-30-2009, 09:58 AM #14
- Member of SCI Dallas
- Hunted RSA, Botswana, CAR, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, Kenya way back when, and a few others that I can't remember.
Tanzania is not cheap but you can get a 1x1, 21 day hunt there for $43,990. and a 2x1 for $40,990. That includes all plainsgame as well as Elephant, Lion, 3 buffalo, Hippo, Croc, and Leopard.
Tanzania also has the Nyasaland Wildebeest btw...
10 day hunts for buffalo allow you specific plainsgame such as Nyasaland Widlebeest, Hartebeest, warthog, Impala (big Impala), Zebra (the most colorful of all the worlds Zebra with about one inch stripes) and bushpig. These hunts are affordable at $19,990 or the specials at 2x1 with one buffalo at $9,990. and half the plainsgame..
Actually you can do a Tanzania hunt for about what a first class RSA plainsgame hunt costs..RAY ATKINSON
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