Prices on your website
This is a discussion on Prices on your website within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the Hunting Forums - Hunting in Africa category; Could you as HUNTERS please indicate (to us as Outfitters) the following: DO YOU WANT TO SEE THE PRICE LIST ...
03-03-2012, 12:56 AM #21
- Member of NAPHA, DSC, SCI
- Hunted NAMIBIA, AFRICA.
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PRICE LIST TO BE REFLECTED ON WEBSITE: YES or NO - MOTIVATE your answer
Could you as HUNTERS please indicate (to us as Outfitters) the following:
DO YOU WANT TO SEE THE PRICE LIST AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE?
Yes or NO?
MOTIVATE your answer.
Your feedback would be a appreciated and a guideline for us as Outfitters.
03-03-2012, 04:13 AM #22
- Member of North American Hunting Club, NRA. RMEF, NWTF, SCI
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Yes why wouldn't I want to know the prices upfront,don't buy anything without knowing how much it costs 1st....why waste my time and your time if the prices are not what I am looking for?
03-03-2012, 04:21 AM #23
- Member of NRA lifetime, SCI Member, Longhunters LLC
- Hunted South Africa, Germany, USA
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Definitley want to see the price list. I feel in general the daily cost of a hunt is all about the same. The cost of the animals is the major part of the hunt.(then taxidermy work) I just feel it is a waist of time for me and the outfitter to have to email back and forth over the price."Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever."
03-03-2012, 05:06 AM #24
While pricing plays a role with whom or where I choose to hunt, it does not matter to me if pricing is on the website or not as it is not the primary or even secondary reason I will hunt with a particular outfitter.
If a website does not list the exact area it is hunting I will not even look at it twice. As an example many webites list their concessions near Hwange or near Lake Kariba etc. That tells me something is not on the up and up. List it as Matetsi Three or Sijaria Forest and be upfront about the area. That is far more important to me than pricing.
03-03-2012, 06:14 AM #25
- Hunted united states canada mexico south africa
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I like to see the pricing there when I look at a website.I dont want one of my first question to need to be about price of the hunt.I like to see the prices were there hunting is done and wish more people would add how big of an area they hunt.Even if the prices seem High to me I will give an outfitter a chance to match or come near a price I may have from another outfitter if I think they have what I need.Then they can decide if they want to try for my business or not.
03-03-2012, 07:30 AM #26
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Yes, While price is not the only deciding factor it is defiantly in the top three. If the price is not on the web site it appears as if they know they are out of line and not competitive with the market. As a rule of thumb it appears the price is an indication of how many of a particular animal they have. When we were deciding where to go on our first safari we looked at over 50 web sites. The ones that did not give the price or size of the concession we did not consider. Communication is a big issue. When you go on your first because you have a lot of questions. When you e-mail an outfitter it is not like the states where you expect a reply in minutes but when you are trying to pick from several outfitters good communication definitely gives you an advantage. Just a view from my thinking.
03-03-2012, 09:57 AM #27
- Member of SCI, NRA
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I think from an outfitters perspective it depends on who is your target audience..new clients or returning alum?
I would speculate that newbies are much more needy...info communication, etc (I know I have been). By not including pricing you probably lose out on opportunities with those who are in the searching stage..and waste your valuable time in email correspondence with those who are just doing their homework on pricing.
03-03-2012, 10:41 AM #28
- Member of KZN Hunters Assoc
- Hunted Namibia (Otavi) South Africa ( Limpopo, Kwazulu Natal, Northern Cape) Canada (BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia) USA (Montana, Washington, South Dakota, California, Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas, Minnesota, North Carolina, Virginia, Utah, Hawaii)
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Ansie, I want to see the price list up front, period.
Unless you are independently wealthy, won a lottery (redundant, I know.) or are a fool you want to know what the cost of a product is. The quicker the better.
When I started looking for outfitters I literally reviewed THOUSANDS of offerings. I spent three years looking at the web, going to shows, reviewing forums, hunt reports, reviews, stories, talking to people who hunted in Africa and elsewhere.
I learned about agents, outfitters, PH's, professional associations, legislation (local, national, international), personal enthusiasm, dedication, knowledge and honesty in this long arduous process.
Price finding is only a part of the work everyone needs to do.
As Hagar did in his selection:
"The ones that did not give the price or size of the concession we did not consider."
Price is a great place to start, it is not the be all and end all though. You have to do your homework on top of the price lists.
What price lists do not tell you:
Prices give you some idea what is being offered.
As Mike70560 says you don't post information on the area it tells you something.
It also implies when you should be concerned: A Tanzanian lion for $3500 would make me a tad concerned.
Prices start telling you that you should be staying in a pretty nice lodge or a shack or what area you are going to.
They can indicate the philosophy of the outfit:
One trophy fee or a sliding fee scale ranging to triple or more of the starting fee. Larger Kudu at $6500. Now I've seen this twice. Want to hunt here on a budget?
As Hagar says it is a good indicator of what is on the property and what is on a concession.
No place has every animal available in Africa; They can't!
Would you buy a Muskox hunt in Alabama? You would know this is not natural and would doubt it immediately.
If you know where the species "traditional" home ranges are you will know where they grow best. Price list will help indicate this by absence of a fee or a much higher fee, because they are difficult to raise and maintain in non traditional habitat.
ie. Bushbuck are not running around with Springbok in the Kalahari!
RickB says "the day costs are all about the same". In general that is what it appears on the surface. When you put the facts down it is amazing how it spreads out.
I created spread sheets and sorted information, Day Rates to Duikers.
Spread sheets and posted rates don't lie!!
To illustrate the point I updated (2012) my spreadsheet with TEN "known outfitters" (South Africa and Namibia) to compare.
*(Some of these outfitters post rates, some don't by the way)
* I did not include the very divergent Specialty offerings eg. ($150 1x1)
* I'll focus this example on South Africa.
* Choose different species it might change this a bit.
* Three among them have the exact same day rate. Everything else is different.
To compare I took FOUR animals (my faves) and also 10 day hunt with hunter/observer:
Kudu, Gemsbok, Bushbuck, Nyala.
Trophy Fee Range: 4700 to 8400
Day Rates 1x1: 320 to 495
Observer: 150 to 230
Total Combined Cost Range: 9400 to 15400
That is a $6000 USD difference for what on first glance is the same hunt!
The lower fee includes airport transfer the highest amount does not.
The lower fee does not include the extra flight to the local airport.
The lower fee does not include the probable over night in JHB.
Airport - JHB or PE Adds another flight to your cost.
Do these added costs even out in the "wash" . Airfare, accommodation and Transfer Cost?
Did not add in concession travel to either.
The intangibles are not compared here at all. Trophies, property, etc.
Decide what you want and Look for "Value for Money"Practice whispering before you leave for Africa!
A Legend in my own mind!
03-03-2012, 03:01 PM #29
- Hunted Norway, Sweden, England, South Africa
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If I look at an outfitters website and no price list is to be found, I just leave that website and look at others.
First of all I just assume it is to expensive for me.
Also if the website lacks lots of information, I need to write down a long list of question when I contact the outfitter. Most of these could the outfitter easily have put on the website.
It just seem unprofessional and lazy to me, or to a real suspicious mind, it would seem that they try to hide something and hope you will not think about it before it is to late.
Specially when it makes it very unclear what is included in the pricing and how much the total hunt will cost.
Different hunters are after different sort of hunts.
To some huge trophies are the most important.
Others want as much luxury as possible.
Some just want to shoot as much as possible.
Some want a very challenging hunt, others want an easy hunt.
We all have different budgets for what we can afford, and we have different priorities of what is most important to us when we decide what outfitter to use, but I am sure most of us want to know how much it will cost us.
I want as much information as possible when I look at a website.
Many are good at this, but what I think most have to little of, is information about the area I will be hunting in if I go there.
Most websites have lots of trophy photos, and that can always be nice to look at. But I am more interested to see photos from the hunting area.
If I wanted to hunt with a bow from blinds, then photos of the blind views would be nice too.
Aerial photos or/and maps of the hunting area would be nice too in my opinion.
03-03-2012, 04:04 PM #30
- Member of NAHC Life Member, NRA Life Member,SCI, Buckmasters
- Hunted USA(from Coast to Coast and Alaska), Germany, South Africa, Canada
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BrickBurn This is a very good example and I like your Idea of the spread sheet. While I was at the DSC Convention I brought up this issue with some of the outfitters there that don't list their prices on their website this included one of my favorite outfitters that use to list there prices then took it off their website. The reason was pretty much the same they have a price they pay for these animals to other farmer when hunting on their land well the farmers would see this and want the full amount example your hunting Bushbuck the outfitters price is $1200 if they shoot it on another farm they they pay that farmer for their animal lets say $900 the farmer wants the same price they have listed $1200 and doesn't seem to understand they still have to cover their other Expenses i.e. gas, PH, trakers and so on so the outfitters just took there prices off their website and will send it to you on request after looking at it that way I can half understand their problem but I still appreciate those that list their prices it gives me something to compare.Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.
03-03-2012, 04:23 PM #31
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I haven't been on safari yet, and am currently working on planning my first. Having said that, here is my opinion:
Yes, I want to see the price.....while it isn't the sole motivating factor, in these tough global economic times, I do want to see what I am getting for my $$$$.
Having said that, more important to me is what 'hidden charges' am I going to get hit with after the fact. I have been on hunts where the final total and what I was told didn't jive, and upon asking I was told, "Oh, there was a charge of this and a charge for that". Those things WERE NOT spelled out ahead of time, and I don't recommend those outfitters that use such practices. While it appears that most folks who advertise here spell out what is included and what isn't, it would be nice to know (for budgeting purposes) what to expect, cost-wise, for certain services such as dip and pack, shipping of hides, transfers, secondary air travel, ect. I realize that sometimes a precise amount cannot be determined (due to number or type of trophies, ect), but a general idea is appreciated and may make me consider taking an extra trophy or two.
Just my two cents (after taxes).................
03-03-2012, 04:45 PM #32
- Member of Northeast Wisconsin SCI chapter, Lifetime member of NRA,RMEF
- Hunted Namibia, South Africa (East Cape, Guateng and Limpopo)
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I like to see a price list too. But Bob brings a excellent point up. Unless you hunt all of your animals on the property of the outfitter. You are going to get prices run up on animals on other properties the outfitter or PH hunts. Sometimes there is "TOO MUCH" information.
03-04-2012, 12:04 AM #33
I've done it both ways and can't say that it made any difference to the number of enquiries I got from my website... Even with prices on my website (as I have it at present), those who enquire still ask me for prices when they make an enquiry and something I actually find quite amusing is how many will ask me e.g. about the price of a Cape Buffalo hunt and when I quote them reply that "this is too rich for their blood..." - this in spite of the daily rates + trophy fee for a buffalo hunt being clearly posted on my website...
Maybe off topic but commenting on Bob's post re. reasons provided to him for not listing prices... I understand where Outfitters are coming from as far as the "greed" of landowners is concerned. Regrettably itis a very true statement that some landowners base their pricing on what we as Outfitters charge as opposed to what is reasonable in the market and this has a spiralling upwards effect on Trophy Fees .
Last week I received the following pricelist from a North West Operator (remember - this is what the Outfitter has to pay this particular landowner and doesn't include any margin for the Outfitter himself who has to 1.) first find a client through expensive marketing, 2.) Get the client to the landowner's property (transportation etc.) and 3.) Hunt the animal (Tracker, Skinner and PH wages + additional transportation) and provide accommodation to the client(s) (Accommodation, meals beverages etc.)
Impala R1800 ($257), larger than 24 R2500 ($357)
Mountain Reedbuck R5000 ($714)
Cape Eland R18000 ($2,571)
Warthog R1000 ($142)
Blesbok R1850 ($264)
Gemsbok R7000 ($1,000)
Nyala R15000 ($2,142)
Zebra R7000 ($1,000)
Bushpig R1200 ($171)
Bushbuck R6000 ($857)
Red hartbeest R4500 ($642)
Blue Wildebeest R4200 ($600), larger than 29" R5500 ($785)
Giraffe R19000 ($2,714)
Waterbuck R13000 ($1,857)
Kudu R12000 ($1,714) under 50
R18000 ($2,571) 50-54
R20000 ($2,857) 60+
Some of the prices listed above is (more or less) market related but others are simply riduculous like that of Eland, Impala, Gemsbok, Nyala and KUDU!!! What must I as Outfitter charge a client if I were to hunt on this man's property? Needless to say I will not and stick to the folks who continue to charge reasonable prices...
Sorry for the rant... don't mean to hi-jack the thread...
03-04-2012, 12:41 AM #34
- Member of SSAA
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He can jam his Kudu and Eland prices up his arse that is for sure Chris.Time spent in Reconnaisance is never wasted.
03-04-2012, 01:05 AM #35
The local farmers are complaining that we aren't bringing them business anymore and ask why we are starting to hunt other provinces more-and-more... Asking prices like those above is just one of the reasons...
Thankfully sanity still prevails amongst a few farmers up here and most in other Provinces such as Natal, the Eastern Cape and Free State...
03-04-2012, 01:09 AM #36
- Member of SSAA
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Please feel free to forward my response.
(written after five rather exquisite Merlots)Time spent in Reconnaisance is never wasted.
I understand rational reasons for not having a pricelist. As above, to keep the price hidden from landowners. Or, because you live somewhere with bad internet access and can't easily update the website, but can send a pricelist on request. That said, I generally move on if I see a website without prices. My thought isn't that there is something to hide (even though there may be), but rather that I am being manipulated into providing contact information. That is not how I want to start my interactions. It feels like a used car lot.
03-04-2012, 07:33 AM #38
- Member of Member SCI, QDMA
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I like to see price lists but also realize that depending on the property the outfitter is hunting that they may vary.
03-04-2012, 07:54 AM #39
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On a side note, I'd like to see more deals with an observer rate included. Sort of like a husband/wife deal....
03-04-2012, 08:07 AM #40
- Member of SCI
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On websites I have noticed alot of differences in extra charges, some list them some dont. Extra charges are not a problem as long as you know about them in advance of booking, backdoor charges on the other hand are more than just agrivating they are dishonest and bordering criminal. If you have to ask about extra charges and find out that there are some that were not spelled out on the website and not offered freely without prompting then that is it for me, who knows what else they are not telling you about. If you sell a service then evertything should be spelled out in advance. This is one of the things I make certain of BEFORE commiting.The journey is the reward.
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