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Would you ever consider booking a hunt with...

This is a discussion on Would you ever consider booking a hunt with... within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the HUNT AFRICA category; After posting about professional hunter and safari operator Krys Wessels from Kukuzans Safaris who was expelled in 2006 from PHASA ...

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    After posting about professional hunter and safari operator Krys Wessels from Kukuzans Safaris who was expelled in 2006 from PHASA for 4 years and who now has had his PHASA membership suspended, it got me thinking...

    Would you ever consider booking a hunt with a professional hunter or hunting outfitter knowing that his membership from a prominent hunting association or organization is or has been in the past suspended, revoked or reinstated?

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    Jerome.

    No , Not & Never .............

    Monish
    ITS NOT THE RIFLE BUT THE MAN BEHIND THE RIFLE

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    Surely not. Would be utterly strange to do so and certainly underming the very pricinples that are inplace and which we all as hunters (supposedly) try to adhere to.
    Cheers.
    Popo
    ......"there is a single opportunity for a one shot kill, but many opportunities to wound."

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    If he was expelled by his peers? Not a chance. There are too many other PH's to choose from that have great ethics and DO follow the rules. Why invite trouble?

    - browningbbr

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    Depends what it was for.................if it was for wildlife act offences or for cause due to complaints from clients which were justified, then no. However, as with all things that have people and egos involved, I have seen professional hunters/outfitters expelled for infractions that are not related to their ability to run a legal, ethical and professional hunt, commonly referred to as 'politics' or internal administration offences. In that case I may well book a hunt with them.....................I have seen way too much internal politics in organizations to hold that against anyone.

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    No, too many reputable alternatives, why take a chance. Frankly, I am leery of anyone who has multiple negative reports on the hunting report, other forums or here. I don't get concerned over one bad report, but multiple ones make me leery.

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    I try to use word of mouth, many people, you can get a feel for after talking to them for a bit, but some are slick and could con you out of your last buck .Any information that you can use to including internet positives and negatives are just that << information>>> one item does not condem a outfitter .But having your peers kick you out of PHASA would put up a big red flag for me

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    If the PH was suspended because he is a brawler and likes to figth but,, but is a very good hunter, determined and brave, I will hire him in a new york minute.
    NEW SCI CHAPTER MONTERREY MEXICO

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    I would say that past hunter reports have much more value for me than any hunting association. There are many "high Up's" in many clubs and associations that feel they are entitled to many free hunts and other perks because of there position. I would think these politics also play a part on who they endorse or support.

    I do not know the PH you mentioned and never really paid any attention to PHASA until I searched there website after seeing this thread, so I have no dog in this hunt.

    I have in the past however been leary of any group that tries to impose addl rules which are above the law on any group of hunters. I see that this is a volintary org, and beyond there PH membership dues, they tax every hunter a fee for each animal harvested. They also sell awards thru the PH where the PH makes a hefty commission.

    I have never been one for buying awards, trophies, plaques and medals just to show off and please oneself.

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    I agree with the statement below. I'm not a huge fan of PHASA. I would never hunt with an unethical or knowingly illegal operator but i also know how politics can work. As an attorney by profession, i'm trained to not take the first accusation as truth. I would want more information.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline View Post
    Depends what it was for.................if it was for wildlife act offences or for cause due to complaints from clients which were justified, then no. However, as with all things that have people and egos involved, I have seen professional hunters/outfitters expelled for infractions that are not related to their ability to run a legal, ethical and professional hunt, commonly referred to as 'politics' or internal administration offences. In that case I may well book a hunt with them.....................I have seen way too much internal politics in organizations to hold that against anyone.
    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by AfricaHunting.com View Post
    After posting about professional hunter and safari operator Krys Wessels from Kukuzans Safaris who was expelled in 2006 from PHASA for 4 years and who now has had his PHASA membership suspended, it got me thinking...

    Would you ever consider booking a hunt with a professional hunter or hunting outfitter knowing that his membership from a prominent hunting association or organization is or has been in the past suspended, revoked or reinstated?
    .................Leopard changing it's spots??????????????
    .................................................. .Not only no but hell no!
    DUGABOY1 www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
    "If I die today I have had a life well spent, for I have been to see the elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa" qt by Damon(mac) McCartney

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    I am tracking with you Dugaboy. A PH or outfitter runs a business. For better or worse, professional associations such as PHASA and NAPHA are the "auditing agencies" of such businesses. I absolutely pay attention to such things.
    "We sleep peaceably in our beds because rough men stand ready in the
    night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" Winston Churchill

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    Why was he suspended? It is not expelled if it was for a specified period of time and allowed back in.

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    It was my complaint that got Krys suspended. Long story short, we left our 17 year old son with Krys to work for the summer. Our hunt ended in Zimbabwe, Kry left camp early and didn't pay the landower or the government. Subsequently they arrested the 3 Kukuzans employees and my son. We were able to bribe them enough to have them held in camp rather than Jail but took us almost 6 weeks to get him home. Mostly because of the soccer world cup. After safely getting him home we discovered that none of the landowners on our 2009 or 2010 hunts had been paid. Krys was telling them that we did not pay him and that was the delay. We are still working on getting our 2009 trophies out of Africa. Our broker lost over 160,000 on deposits for future hunts that were cancelled. I have been in touch with a number of clients that are in the same situation with animals they cannot recover. We've spoken to one taxidermist that has over 78 clients with animals in limbo because they cannot get the proper signatures or permits to export the animals. The extent at which this outfitter lied to us was incredible. Sad fact is that even with his suspension he is still hunting, and we can't get any legal help from S Africa to get this guy locked up. Even the landowners have filed dozens of complaints but nothing seems to happen. Even as of last week Kry is threatening me with legal action for ruining his business. Not that I believe he'll actually do it, but it continues to pour salt on a healing wound. We also might loose two of our trophies because they were shot in a province without a quota for those animals. During the hunt we had a great time, it wasn't until we started trying to recover our trophies from 2009 that we began to see warnings, part of the deal for our 2010 hunts was a resolution to our 2009 animals. We got that but not until a week before our departure. Ultimately we discovered he was lying about that as well. Since this all happened his wife has left him, and we're struggling to recover our animals. I did check references and used a good broker but still got burned. So buyer beware. He's no longer showing at SCI but he was there for the two hunts we booked.

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    Sorry to hear, I have heard the story already. It's a darn shame. Now I can see clearly about your sons hard feelings about hunting in Africa...along with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WyoWes View Post
    It was my complaint that got Krys suspended. Long story short, we left our 17 year old son with Krys to work for the summer. Our hunt ended in Zimbabwe, Kry left camp early and didn't pay the landower or the government. Subsequently they arrested the 3 Kukuzans employees and my son. We were able to bribe them enough to have them held in camp rather than Jail but took us almost 6 weeks to get him home. Mostly because of the soccer world cup. After safely getting him home we discovered that none of the landowners on our 2009 or 2010 hunts had been paid. Krys was telling them that we did not pay him and that was the delay. We are still working on getting our 2009 trophies out of Africa. Our broker lost over 160,000 on deposits for future hunts that were cancelled. I have been in touch with a number of clients that are in the same situation with animals they cannot recover. We've spoken to one taxidermist that has over 78 clients with animals in limbo because they cannot get the proper signatures or permits to export the animals. The extent at which this outfitter lied to us was incredible. Sad fact is that even with his suspension he is still hunting, and we can't get any legal help from S Africa to get this guy locked up. Even the landowners have filed dozens of complaints but nothing seems to happen. Even as of last week Kry is threatening me with legal action for ruining his business. Not that I believe he'll actually do it, but it continues to pour salt on a healing wound. We also might loose two of our trophies because they were shot in a province without a quota for those animals. During the hunt we had a great time, it wasn't until we started trying to recover our trophies from 2009 that we began to see warnings, part of the deal for our 2010 hunts was a resolution to our 2009 animals. We got that but not until a week before our departure. Ultimately we discovered he was lying about that as well. Since this all happened his wife has left him, and we're struggling to recover our animals. I did check references and used a good broker but still got burned. So buyer beware. He's no longer showing at SCI but he was there for the two hunts we booked.
    Wes, Thank you sharing your story with us, it is much appreciated. All of this must have been a terrible experience for your son and your family and none of this should have ever happened... Hope you will be able to recover your trophies.

    Jerome Philippe, Founder of AfricaHunting.com
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    Our community is a place for seasoned African hunters and those who dream of someday hunting in Africa. I hope that you will find AfricaHunting.com a great place to spend time preparing for or dreaming about your future African hunting safari or reliving your last.

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    Wes...

    To have left your son in camp is something that you will live with the rest of your life...the old what if's come into play...

    I would guess that your trophy's are a loss, however look at the bright side you have your son back...

    As you said references can be checked and former clients talked to and you just do not know what you will run into when you get there...

    Most are great and yours went the other direction...

    Look at the bright side...you have your son, memories and pictures...all else can be replaced over time...
    James Grage - New Mexico
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    You can get all the references in the world. But you never know when someone will turn bad. It can happen overnight. You did your research and this guy burned you bad! As James said you got your son back and everything else is irrelevant.

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    Amen, really puts things in perspective, and made the rest of the issues small in comparison. Thanks RickB

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    Quote Originally Posted by James.Grage View Post
    Wes...

    To have left your son in camp is something that you will live with the rest of your life...the old what if's come into play...

    I would guess that your trophy's are a loss, however look at the bright side you have your son back...

    As you said references can be checked and former clients talked to and you just do not know what you will run into when you get there...

    Most are great and yours went the other direction...

    Look at the bright side...you have your son, memories and pictures...all else can be replaced over time...
    James,
    We felt terrible that we put Dakota in that situation for sure! We were with Krys and his wife and he assured us he would treat Dakota as his own son. We contemplated this for months before we decided to do this. But in the end it was a mistake and we are so thankful the outcome was getting Dakota home safe. He learned alot and grew up during this ordeal. So all in all it was a opportunity to learn and we did.

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