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.270 Winchester for plains game

This is a discussion on .270 Winchester for plains game within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the HUNT AFRICA category; I'll probably be over gunned but I plan to take my 338-06 on a plains game hunt. I realize that ...

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    I'll probably be over gunned but I plan to take my 338-06 on a plains game hunt. I realize that I could get by with .280 or 30-06 but since this is my first, and probably last, trip to Africa I want to be sure to have plenty of backbone in my loads. I plan to use either the 200gr Accubond and maybe the 210gr Partition. Heck, I might even give new the 185 gr TTSX a try since I handload. That sucker should be smokin' from a 338-06.

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    The 270 is fine, when you get down to it, there is not a whole lot of difference between the 6.5 x 55 7x 57 308 30-06 or the 7mm RM. When you get right down to it, stick a good bullet were is suppose to go and get out the skinning knife. I understand PH's wanting clients to bring heavier guns. Hunting time is short, it makes no sense to me if one shoots better with say a 270 vs one of the 300's it would be better all around to shoot what you can shoot well. A 270 with say Swift A Frames makes a lot more sense to me. Then again I did a whole safari in the old days with a 7mm Remington Mag and 175 gr Nosler Partitions, the load maybe clocked 2600 fps don't know or care it was Kenya in 71 and the game didn't care a wit, and I gotten in a lot of shooting in that 35 days. Of course, nobody goes for that long, on a plains game hunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Spencer View Post
    I'll probably be over gunned but I plan to take my 338-06 on a plains game hunt. I realize that I could get by with .280 or 30-06 but since this is my first, and probably last, trip to Africa I want to be sure to have plenty of backbone in my loads. I plan to use either the 200gr Accubond and maybe the 210gr Partition. Heck, I might even give new the 185 gr TTSX a try since I handload. That sucker should be smokin' from a 338-06.
    I'd try those TSX bullets. They appear to be some kind of a wonder bullet from what I hear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Snyder View Post
    I'd try those TSX bullets. They appear to be some kind of a wonder bullet from what I hear.
    They were devastating on the animals I shot with them. However, I was very disappointed in the quality control of at least one box of bullets I bought for reloading. At a very predictable 1 out of every 4 to 5, the bullet would seat at a very significant depth than the others. When I say significant, I'm talking about 0.020 to 0.030 inches difference and that's plus or minus.

    This is unacceptable to me and proved out on the range. Accuracy at 100 yards is not too badly affected by it, but start going out 300, 400 yards and it's a whole different story. One shot at 400 yards drifted right by about 8 feet!! Prior to that and afterwards I was hitting +/- 6 inches or so. I was shooting from a mechanical rest and this kind of distance is something I regularly do. I'm not claiming to be a sniper or anything, but one needs to shoot these kinds of distances when preparing for Coues deer hunting in Arizona.

    I had great performance from the bullet in Africa, but my shots were fairly short at 100 yards or less. That said, I don't think I'll ever use this bullet again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PHOENIX PHIL View Post
    They were devastating on the animals I shot with them. However, I was very disappointed in the quality control of at least one box of bullets I bought for reloading. At a very predictable 1 out of every 4 to 5, the bullet would seat at a very significant depth than the others. When I say significant, I'm talking about 0.020 to 0.030 inches difference and that's plus or minus.

    This is unacceptable to me and proved out on the range. Accuracy at 100 yards is not too badly affected by it, but start going out 300, 400 yards and it's a whole different story. One shot at 400 yards drifted right by about 8 feet!! Prior to that and afterwards I was hitting +/- 6 inches or so. I was shooting from a mechanical rest and this kind of distance is something I regularly do. I'm not claiming to be a sniper or anything, but one needs to shoot these kinds of distances when preparing for Coues deer hunting in Arizona.

    I had great performance from the bullet in Africa, but my shots were fairly short at 100 yards or less. That said, I don't think I'll ever use this bullet again.
    I knew there had to be a fly in the ointment!!! If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

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    You might try the tipped TSX. Used them lasr year and this year on some animals. They have the plastic tip and seem to be more consistant in my reloads. I got my .300 WSM shooting 1 1/2 inch groups at 300 yards. As long as the barrel is clean they seem to be pretty consistant for me. 150 grain tipped TSX. Killed a Siberian Ibex this last winter with the load. Took 2 shots, but that was my fault... First shot was too far back. Got a rather large 5X5 bull elk 2 days ago with the load. One round through both shoulders. He went about 45 yards. The Barnes bullets tend to go all the way through an animal when shot from the side. Usually don't drop in the tracks unless the spine is hit. But they usually don't go far when drilled clear through. One of my buddies killed a nice 5X6 bull elk 2 days ago with the TSX. Overshot the first time and dropped him in his tracks w/ the 2nd. Hit the neck.
    Last year shot a nice 4 point mule deer with my .270 and the 130gr tipped TSX. He was running away.. The bullet penetrated close to 36 inches of deer. He made it perhaps 150 yards so we had to track a little. The Barnes bullets will hold together. The tip peels back about 1/3rd of the lenght of the bullet and keeps on going. It will expand to half again its original diameter or so. Acts similiar to a solid in that it holds together.
    My biggest problem is the copper fouling in my barrel. After 10 shots or so my groups start to open up and I need to clean the gun. More a problem w/ my .300 than the .270. May be the barrel on that gun.
    They tipped TSX.s are not a "wonder" bullet, but in certain applications they make sense.
    Now I'll ask a question. This thread started about using a .270 for plains game in Africa. I thought I had been told or read somewhere that 7mm is minimum allowed for hunting in Namibia? Am I mistaken? I realize that Christian may hunt in RSA where it would be legal. Good luck on you adventure. Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by gillettehunter View Post
    You might try the tipped TSX. Used them lasr year and this year on some animals. They have the plastic tip and seem to be more consistant in my reloads. I got my .300 WSM shooting 1 1/2 inch groups at 300 yards. As long as the barrel is clean they seem to be pretty consistant for me. 150 grain tipped TSX. Killed a Siberian Ibex this last winter with the load. Took 2 shots, but that was my fault... First shot was too far back. Got a rather large 5X5 bull elk 2 days ago with the load. One round through both shoulders. He went about 45 yards. The Barnes bullets tend to go all the way through an animal when shot from the side. Usually don't drop in the tracks unless the spine is hit. But they usually don't go far when drilled clear through. One of my buddies killed a nice 5X6 bull elk 2 days ago with the TSX. Overshot the first time and dropped him in his tracks w/ the 2nd. Hit the neck.
    Last year shot a nice 4 point mule deer with my .270 and the 130gr tipped TSX. He was running away.. The bullet penetrated close to 36 inches of deer. He made it perhaps 150 yards so we had to track a little. The Barnes bullets will hold together. The tip peels back about 1/3rd of the lenght of the bullet and keeps on going. It will expand to half again its original diameter or so. Acts similiar to a solid in that it holds together.
    My biggest problem is the copper fouling in my barrel. After 10 shots or so my groups start to open up and I need to clean the gun. More a problem w/ my .300 than the .270. May be the barrel on that gun.
    They tipped TSX.s are not a "wonder" bullet, but in certain applications they make sense.
    Now I'll ask a question. This thread started about using a .270 for plains game in Africa. I thought I had been told or read somewhere that 7mm is minimum allowed for hunting in Namibia? Am I mistaken? I realize that Christian may hunt in RSA where it would be legal. Good luck on you adventure. Bruce
    I have never heard anything about that? If it is true, then I must say that is ridiculous. I would think that for Namibia the .270 Win would make a lot of sense.

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    Christian,

    It is true, minimum caliber in Namibia is 7MM.

    NAPHA: Namibia Professional Hunting Association: Hunting Laws

    As Elmer Keith said the 270 is an adequate coyote rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Snyder View Post
    I have never heard anything about that? If it is true, then I must say that is ridiculous. I would think that for Namibia the .270 Win would make a lot of sense.
    On my one Africa hunt I took a .270 and a .375 H&H. I shot a buff with the .375 and everything else with the .270 (including a buff wounded by poachers' snares which charged us out of the bush while we were hunting plains game). This is perhaps one reason to consider always having at hand something which will do in a pinch for anything. On the other hand, I would have hated carrying the .375 all the time for everything. I don't know why PH's seem to dislike the .270. My young PH said "Oh no!" when he saw my pre-64 M70 Featherweight. He wasn't saying that at the end, and in fact I'm not sure he had ever had a client use a .270 before. I used 150-grain Noslers and 300-grain Noslers and Hornady solids for the .375. I would do the same again, but would also probably take some 150-grain solids (Barnes used to make them) just in case, for the .270. I used a Nosler 300-grain followed by 3 Hornady solids for the trophy buff (he hardly moved after the first shot, but I just kept shooting while he was still on his feet). Everything else took one shot, except a very large Kudu which needed a finisher. I have used that particular .270 for 40 years and am very familiar with it and have great confidence in it. I think that counts for a lot more than a few tiny fractions of an inch difference in bore size or fps velocity. Finn Aagaard used to rent a .270 for use by clients, and said he had absolutely no problems with it. I am sure during his time as a PH in Kenya he had more opportunity to observe the .270 at work than the vast majority of PH's who put it down.

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    While there is no arguing with facts as pointed to above, and while 7mm and a certain amount of joules may be required: I think it is up to the outfitter to a large extent as I know for certain fact that many hunters arrive with smaller than .270 rifles and go huntin'. A couple of years ago the editor of one of the glossies took a near world record kudu with the .257 Roberts and wrote it up and he was hunting with a reputable outfitter, one I had used myself a year previous. So Christian, dont get too shook up about this business, when the time comes for you first hunt, talk it over with your outfitter and likely your .270 will be welcomed. If not look elsewhere, Namibia aint the only place with good hunting over there. Good luck!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike70560 View Post
    Christian,

    It is true, minimum caliber in Namibia is 7MM.

    NAPHA: Namibia Professional Hunting Association: Hunting Laws

    As Elmer Keith said the 270 is an adequate coyote rifle.
    What for idiotic law is that!? That is all I have to say regarding that caliber minimum at this moment......

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    Minimum Equipment Requirements for Rifle Hunting in Namibia
    • Smallest caliber allowed 7 mm (.284).
    • Minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity)
    • Big Game
    5400 Joule
    (Elephant, Cape Buffalo, Rhino, Lion, etc.)
    • Large Game
    2700 Joule
    (Greater Kudu, Cape Eland, Oryx / Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest, Blue Wildebeest, Black Wildebeest, Hartmann's Zebra, Burchell's Zebra, Giraffe, Sable Antelope, Roan Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, Leopard, etc.)
    • Medium to Small Game
    1350 Joule
    (Springbok, Impala, Blesbok, Gray Duiker, Steenbok, Ostrich, Caracal, Black-Faced Impala, Red Lechwe, Damara Dik-Dik, Klipspringer, Black-Backed Jackal, Warthog, Cheetah, Nyala, Chacma Baboon, Game Birds, etc.)
    The above information is based on NAPHA's recommendations... The 7 mm minimum is something that NAPHA advocates, there is no mention of it in the original Namibian law, so technically there is no limit in Namibia when it comes to minimum caliber.

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    Jerome,

    I wonder why NAPHA has the rifle requirements listed under "Hunting Laws" on their website. I would hate for NAPHA to turn me over to the USF&W for not following game laws. The charge would be shooting real animals with a substandard rifle.

    Christian,

    There are plenty of rules and laws in Africa (US also) that do not make sense. The 270 Winchester is a fine rifle to hunt most plains game. I prefer something bigger for eland. If Namibia does not want your 270 go over to Zimbabwe they will welcome you and your money with open arms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike70560 View Post
    Jerome,

    I wonder why NAPHA has the rifle requirements listed under "Hunting Laws" on their website. I would hate for NAPHA to turn me over to the USF&W for not following game laws. The charge would be shooting real animals with a substandard rifle.
    I think that NAPHA is trying to provide some guidelines to hunters going to Namibia on safari and setting a certain standard to go by.

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    I wrote an article for Gun World magazine a few years ago based on 30 years of hunting and guiding in Wyoming, and I concluded that of all the things I could observe (caliber, bullet weight, velocity, trajectory, scope power, etc.,etc.,) only two things seemed to make a difference: (1) bullet construction, and (2) bullet placement. So, should we be concerned about the difference between .277" (.270) and .284" (7mm), or .007"? Give me a break.

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    I took my .270 to Namibia in May 2008. Talked to PH about my comfort level with the gun and he was fine.
    Joe Rendon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Snyder View Post
    What for idiotic law is that!? That is all I have to say regarding that caliber minimum at this moment......
    I would say whoa there Christian. I tend to agree with most here that a .270 is fine for most of plains game up to and including Kudu. Jack O'Connor knew something about shooting and the .270 was one of if not his favorite calibers. When a good bullet is used and most importantly good bullet placement on the shot occurs, good things happen. The latter is where some issues happen. I've been fortunate enough to kill Shiras moose, elk, mule deer, whitetail and Coues deer here in the U.S. I also was fortunate enough to hunt in the RSA this past summer. I have been lucky enough to only have lost one animal during my 25 years of hunting and I know it was from poor shot placement.

    There isn't much doubt in my mind that the Kudu, Waterbuck and Nyala that I killed could have been taken by a .270. However, the Waterbuck I got may not have been recovered had I not been using a .300 Win Mag with 180gr bullets. Why? Shot placement was not optimal, it wasn't horrible, but it was marginal. I shot the bull a bit too far forward catching the front edge if the impact side shoulder. Due to the angle, the bullet caught the front and low edge of the lungs. The bull went down, but only after going 400 yards or so.

    Now can I say that a say .270 shooting 150gr bullets would not have resulted in recovery of the bull? No, I can't. But I can tell you that the .300 bullet did not fully penetrate the animal. I can also tell you the only blood we saw in tracking the animal was when he stopped for a moment and coughed up some blood. There was no other blood from the wound that we ever saw.

    But let's do some math, specifically when it comes to energy. Energy = 1/2*mass*velocity squared

    I can tell you my .300 Win was shooting at 3000 fps. I can also tell you that my Nosler reloading manual says a .270 shooting 150 gr bullets will shoot a maximum of about 2900 fps.

    So in comparing the energy of my .300 Win to a .270:

    Energy for .300 / Energy of .270 = (1/2*180*3000*3000) / (1/2*150*2900*2900) = 1.284

    This means that my .300 has 1.284 times the energy of the .270, or 28.4% more energy. That is a significant more amount of energy and may have been the difference in the bullet penetrating far enough and with enough energy to result in a fatal wound or enough of a wound to ensure we retrieved the bull.

    I can assure you that this isn't the first time this scenario has been seen by the PH's in Africa and it sure won't be the last. The recommendations and/or laws that are written with regards to caliber are written in a general way between plains game and dangerous game. For plains game this means they have to cover everything from the diminutive duikers up to Eland or bigger if Giraffe are lumped into this grouping. I think it would be a bit tedious to break down the calibers much more than this.

    Furthermore, you also have to understand that many hunters that show up in Africa as well as anywhere else aren't necessarily bringing the best shooting skills with them. I wouldn't want to put any of our AH members who are also PH's on the spot, but I'd bet my house there isn't a one that hasn't shook his head at the less than proficient shooting skills of a paying hunter on numerous occasions.

    A larger calibre is no substitute for poor shooting, but occasionally it can be the difference in losing a wounded animal and recovering a dead one. That said, if the choice was between plains game hunting in Africa with my .270 and not going hunting, better get out of my way I've got a plane to catch. But I do understand PH's recommending larger bores, it can make a difference. You have to realize they've been told many times by prospective clients how well they can shoot only to find out they're not near as good as they think they are.

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    Default .270 for plains game

    I am the proud owner of a .270 win made by SAKO with a left handed action.
    I am taking a plains game safari to Namibia. I really wanted to take my rifle. After asking NAPHA to clarify the .284 to .277 difference, their response was "legal minimum is .284."

    Even after multiple people I trust told me I could take one, and that they had taken a .270 win, I decided to get a new rifle. In the end, my rifle has too much sentimental value to me. It was a gift from the father. It is engraved, gorgeous wood, and if confiscated/stolen/lost no amount of money would be enough to fill the gap in my heart of losing my rifle. I look for duplicates on gun sites, and have never run across a LH one that compares to mine.

    I bought a Ruger #1 in 300 H&H mag. I no longer worry as much about longer shots or marginal angles.

    While I believe a .270 win is acceptable for plains game, I will feel better leaving mine behind. When I go to the range I take the Ruger, and leave the SAKO in the safe. 200g Nosler Partitions or 140g Swift A-frames. Taking the 200g medicine. Kudu, Zebra, Gemsbok, and Hartebeest are my wish list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonJager View Post
    I am the proud owner of a .270 win made by SAKO with a left handed action.
    I am taking a plains game safari to Namibia. I really wanted to take my rifle. After asking NAPHA to clarify the .284 to .277 difference, their response was "legal minimum is .284."

    Even after multiple people I trust told me I could take one, and that they had taken a .270 win, I decided to get a new rifle. In the end, my rifle has too much sentimental value to me. It was a gift from the father. It is engraved, gorgeous wood, and if confiscated/stolen/lost no amount of money would be enough to fill the gap in my heart of losing my rifle. I look for duplicates on gun sites, and have never run across a LH one that compares to mine.

    I bought a Ruger #1 in 300 H&H mag. I no longer worry as much about longer shots or marginal angles.

    While I believe a .270 win is acceptable for plains game, I will feel better leaving mine behind. When I go to the range I take the Ruger, and leave the SAKO in the safe. 200g Nosler Partitions or 140g Swift A-frames. Taking the 200g medicine. Kudu, Zebra, Gemsbok, and Hartebeest are my wish list.
    I love the .300 H&H MAG! I may have to get a Ruger no.1 in .300 H&H mag someday... It is the ONLY .300 mag that really intrigues me si If I ever get a .300 Mag that will be the one.

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    I was last summer in Eastern cape. My friend hunted with a 270, one shot per animal: Kudu, Bushbuck, Steenbuck, Mountain Reedbuck, Springbok and warthog. I have to say that were "perfect shots". If we talk about Wildebeest, Oryx, Zebra, Eland... they are another thing...
    (...and sorry for my English, I am from Spain)

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