I have often wondered how well hunt exchanges would work. Lets say a hunter in Colorado would like to hunt in Africa and has good reputable options in his home area and makes contact with a hunter in Africa that also has opportunities and would like to hunt in Colorado - then theses two hunters can accommodate one another in turn as an invited hunt.
What would the legalities be? I know that hunters that hunt in Africa from other countries needs a good set of documentation fro temporary Rifle import Permits.
There could be a huge cost saving for such an arrangement between hunters and many new friends can be made.
Open for discussion?
This may involve lots of documentation I believe , as every country has stringent game and firearm laws, hope you would get deep info for the same.
Welcome to the forum.
Thanks for the welcome.
Originally Posted by monish
I was thinking along the lines to make it possible for ordinary hunters that would never be in a position to hunt in other countries because of the expense thereto. I know that many if not all African Countries capitalize on hunters from other countries and thereby making it very expensive. I'm not trying to take the bread from professional hunters that make their living that way at all. I think a segment should be covered that would normally not have ventured in the "Other Country" hunting.
I am sure that countries will allow casual hunters to hunt with other local hunters on a non-commercial way. I know that no-one may act as a paid professional hunter without the required permits, licenses and concessions, but if no commercial value is attached then and liabilities are waived then surely there can be nothing wrong with this.
I have seen in my 40 years of hunting all over Africa south of the equator how outfitters and PH's have ripped other people off suffice to say that there are many good professionals out there that give value for money and will go the extra mile to make a client satisfied. I should know because I have been contracted by many outfitters for hunts.
If you can borrow a rifle on a swap hunt then you've saved yourself a bunch of trouble. I have seen a website for a guy who operates a self guided hunting operation in Africa, not South Africa. It was cheap. He set you up with local trackers and a team of guys to help you trek into the wilderness.
He did state that the success rate was not as good as a guided safari, that you needed to be fairly resourceful and that trophy quality was not likely to be wha you might expect as a trophy hunter.
I have a friend who has worked with govenment agricultural departments in India, Papua New Guinea, Bangladesh, Swaziland and Eritrea and through people that he met he has hinted in all of these countries at very minimal cost between the early 80's and 2007. I think that my friend John is the exception.
We have friends in Pretoria and we can go and hunt biltong at no cost, but if we're lucky we'll get an impala ewe or kudu cow for biltong. I'd rather pay for a safari.
I think it's very possible between places su h as the US, across Europe, New Zealand and Australia. Not sure that it's gonna' happen in Africa.
For a first time visitor to Africa, an up-and-coming safari hunter can get some fantastic package hunts in South Africa and Namibia.
I Think were onto something here and I am going to give it a test.
Originally Posted by schembridan
We are a bunch of guys that have hunted casually without exception for the last 21 years. We are normally about 6 Hunters and 6 non-hunters and we have often discussed this very same issue. So what I am up to is to invite a hunter pair (since no one would like to travel on such a trip alone) from any where in the world to come hunting with our group. We cover all meals and accommodation and they pay only for Game hunted. The invite of course would have to be exchanged for a similar hunt.
At least this class of hunter "Budget Hunter" does not mind using anther rifle unlike the more sophisticated hunter that wants int all laid on. They take pride in their rifles and would never even consider hunting anything with another rifle.
This way an average hunter that would not normally venture out of country may have a good and satisfying hunt at a very cost effective rate.
Jerome from right here at AH.com has an article and information about this type of hunting. Let’s see if I can post the link to help you out!
I am well aware of Chasse Libre Hunts but that was when Africa was in many countries under French, British and Portuguese rule (Colonized) and made perfect sense at the time. The topic is perhaps Africa centric but may include other countries too.
Originally Posted by Macs B
What better experience would one want than to hunt unpressurized with like minded guys without the financial hindrance? Who knows the areas better than locals that hunt there year after year? Who can give better insider tips?
in such environment as in the hunting field hunters will tend to go out of their way to please friends from another world, right? I know I have been there and done that in a corporate arranged hunt where we invited our principal suppliers on a weeks long hunt.
As for trophies - it can be exported as gifts - so there is a way to get past that and here I am speaking from an African point.
The question is ... will hunters that cannot afford a fully laid on hunt be eager to go on an exchange hunt on an invitational basis. It does not matter where at this stage.
cozy35...........welcome to AH.
Your topic is one that I have struggled with for about 35 years. I have always been interested in doing swap hunts but it has been a very rare instance where it was viable.
Many, many jurisdictions require non-resident hunters to be guided and book through a licenced outfitter. So while your end may be wide open, as often as not it may not be on the other end. Outfitters themselves are usually reluctant to trade with anyone but another outfitter, particularly when game allocation or 'quota' is involved.
I have seen lots of guys go on swapped hunts that ultimately fell into the 'not really legal' category. Hunters have told me about trips where they were using others tags or hunting on private property and the land owners were gifting the animals as if they were killed by the landowners. Etc. Etc. Etc. I have had offers like that made to me, which I would not go near with a 10 foot pole.
Value for value often rears its ugly head as well. As an example, I have had all sorts of guys over the years that wanted to swap a hunt, but they wanted to come for our 'glamor' species and trade me a hunt for something like turkey, wild pigs or some game species that I already have access to.
Good luck in your quest. It can work from time to time when you have two parties that are each offering something the other wants and they both live in jurisdictions that allow for it.
Skyline makes a few very good points...
While I might be able to organize a hunt for pigs of our local deer species and we can just grab a rifle and go hunting on a mate's 45,000acre low fenced cattle property, technically you would be breaking a pile of our poorly thought out firearms laws. The remote location might 'protect' you but if you have some sort of problem and you need insurance or medical or legal assistance, you're on your own in a very difficult position and As your host, I might be doing some time for firearms offences.
And when it comes to he perceived value of a swap hunt, I would NOT think it was good value to swap a week long poh hunt in one of my hard earned spots for a kudu cow hunt on a friend's uncle's place. Nothing against the kudu cow.
Some things just aren't meant to come easy. Maybe that's why my off shore hunting is so special to me - every hunt I commit to is earned with sacrifices that are a lot bigger in the grand scheme of things than the hard yards I invest to earn my trophy when I'm in the bush.
I don't think that I would ever swap hunts across an ocean, the legalities, bartering, time requirements and risk of the unknown would preclude me from attempting it.
That being said, I would have little trouble with trading hunts in Canada or USA as long as land use, licenses and lodging has been worked out and agreed upon. If I can trade some hunting for bobcat, whitetail or turkey in order to gain access to some pronghorn or mulies I will take full advantage.
Cozy35, swapping hunts in the U.S. is one thing. I have heard plenty of "stuff" about people hunting on some other "Westerner's Resident License"...get caught and that's another thing. Whitetail, pig, and turkey are pretty generic. But there is no way I would even attempt to do it in Africa....it's better to get a second of third job and earn the money. I'll tell you right now you need "permits" to get things back here in the U.S....get caught without the permits..."good luck". There are so many cull hunts out there...save your money and fly over in a low season...you'll have a good time without the headaches.
There are no cutting the corners to good hunting...you have to put your time in and pay your dues. There are plenty of PH's on this website that offer great deals.
Would like to know do you run a out fit ? if so then what do you offer in game hunts? hunting ???
please write to me.
Cozy 35.. I think it's a noble idea which may work on occassion, but I feel with the cost of travel, ability of getting tags & permits, and the export B.S. you would be far better saving your shackels a while longer & going fully guided.
There were some great points brought up by ENYSSE, Schembridan, & Skyline that covers all the bases. I would sure as heck hate to get caught doing the gray area thing in a foreign country. Who's going to go to bat for you!