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Mark Sullivan kicked out of SCI

This is a discussion on Mark Sullivan kicked out of SCI within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the HUNT AFRICA category; I am not going to bother commenting on the person or what he promotes, but what people really should be ...

  1. #21
    Skyline is offline AH Fanatic
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    I am not going to bother commenting on the person or what he promotes, but what people really should be standing up and paying attention to is just how popular this all is. The fact that there are lots of hunters who buy these DVD's and books, and that he has had no lack of clients is a symptom of a larger problem. That problem is what needs to be addressed.

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    Big5 is offline AH Enthusiast
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline View Post
    The fact that there are lots of hunters who buy these DVD's and books, and that he has had no lack of clients is a symptom of a larger problem. That problem is what needs to be addressed.
    Skyline. . . quite well said.
    .
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  3. #23
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    Skyline you are 100% correct, the thing that worries me is, how do we change such a deeply ingrained mindset in the people who subscribe to Sullivan's mentality and will probably pass on the same mindset to their kids?

  4. #24
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    I bought several of Marks videos a while back. I watched two of them. I will tell you this. I could not watch the rest. In my opinion Mark is not an ethical hunter. It became very apparent to me that he has his clients purposly gut shoot these animals to induce a charge. There was one scene where they were following a "wounded" buffalo. When they finally made him charge, they blew the buffs bottom jaw off. They passed SEVERAL opportunities to dispatch the animal. I feel Mark has done far more to destroy ethical hunting than any other person I have ever known and/or heard of. I am glad to hear about SCI's ruling.

  5. #25
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    I was not a member of SCI untill yesterday , so my opinion means nothing but I watched one of those videos of marks and shut the dam thing off half way in. How anyone that hunts like that can call himself a hunter is beyond me . ON the good side I did not even know that crap existed untll I read his name in the fourms < sheltered life lol > good for SCI for putting the sport ahead of money

  6. #26
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    I won't like to judge this guy in any way but my comments about his hunting 'style' from his videos is that this guy isn't a hunter by any stretch of the definition as derekwest put it.

    Apart from his many unethical videos, the 2nd clip jerome posted justifies that this guy hunts for an adrenaline rush.He throws some dust and brush at the bull hippo instead of allowing the client to shoot it there and then.When the hippo charges, the shots go off!What a fiendish way of hunting.

    Someone somewhere puts it like this; Only a fool grabs a tiger by the tail, if you want a thrill, pull down your pants and slide down the ice!!
    Drinking a sundowner and sleeping to the sounds of roaring lions after a long day of trekking in the African wilds is an experience of a lifetime .

  7. #27
    AfricanHunter is offline New Member
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    I must say, I think he has a wonderful life, being on safari for 6 months in Tanzania and being paid by clients to do all the shooting. What a waste of money and experience for his clients.

  8. #28
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    I am not a fan of Sullivan’s videos, I am told his clients worship the ground he walks on. The videos are not what hunting is all about, that they sell so well does say something about our fraternity that needs to be addressed. But if you read the SCI criteria there are a few others that cross the line starting with Marc Watts. I only watched one of his videos, I couldn’t get past his sickening ego. But there are many things in his videos that cross the SCI line. The SCI criteria its pretty tough if applied to all the videos that you see. I am not saying SCI is wrong but they have built a pretty wide paint brush if they are going to use it fairly for everyone. I have been a member of SCI off and on for a long time and no one individual has done as much for hunting as SCI. Period.

  9. #29
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    Exclamation Good Ridance & Farewell at last to Mark Sullivan

    I have attended almost all of SCI's conventions beginning in 1972. I was the 5th SCI president and have been an exhibitor (antiquarian books on Big Game Hunting) For the past 10 or so years I have been writing and talking to the Exhibitor's Committe about Sullivan's visual onslaught of tasteless killing, and requesting his removal from the floor. Finally it has been done! We can be thankful that PETA and other anti's did not seize the opportunity to deal SCI a telling sucker punch. I will continue to lobby for more stringent policing of its own rules on this subject.
    Norden
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  10. #30
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    Hi Norden. See you in Reno.

    Bill Quimby

  11. #31
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    Question Promote of hunting and hunters !

    In Europe we are facing a very strong Non Hunters Power, they are trying to stop us from all kinds of hunting, and as soon as they find anything "wrong" and painful kind of hunting, and of cause when they find hunts like
    Mr Sullivan's, they are jumping of happiness, cause to show how hunts are done Mr Sullivan's, way, will have all non hunters scream " Stop the crazy murderers" and what can we do or say ? except trying to explain that there are always, in all kinds of groups, "strange behaviors".
    Anyway, to "kick" Mr Sullivan out after + 30 years as a member, without any comments, seems very strange. Can it be something else then Mr Sullivan's way of making films and his way to express him self as :The Hunter without fear of death and without respect of animals ?

  12. #32
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    As I understand it, Mark Sullivan's SCI membership was not revoked -- just his ability to exhibit at the club's convention.

    As huntrbks says, complaints about the videos shown in Sullivan's booth have been loud and numerous over many years. It seems improbable that he would not have heard about those complaints or would not know why he was denied a booth this year.

    I have no inside information about SCI's actions and policies -- I retired from my post as director of publications more than ten years ago -- but it also seems improbable that he was not informed of the club's new rules for the videos shown on the convention's floor, especially when all prospective exhibitors are asked to sign a form that states they agree to abide by those rules.

    Bill Quimby

  13. #33
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    I don't agree with Sullivans style of hunting, but wonder if he will be considered the next generations Capstick. Gave one of his video's to a friends son a few Christmas ago and even though we talked about the questionable hunting ethic, he could not stop watching it. Was the first present he showed his buddies. With the violent Xbox games the kids play it seems to take something like Sullivan to really grab their attention. He took some of his Xmas money to buy the Cabelas African Hunting video game and changed his "dream hunt" from Western Mule Deer to a Plains game hunt (maybe with a Buff). Just as long as they understand it as entertainment not ethical hunting maybe it can help balance some of the Disney/Bambi anthropomorphism.

  14. #34
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    Default Sullivan expulsion

    This is a sad day for anyone who can appreciate the real adventure that awaits the buffalo hunter (or any other dangerous game for that matter). All is not neat, pretty and painless with mother Nature, it appears SCI has stooped to a new PC low in this move. Is Uncle Ted next? Capstick's rolling in his grave, I'm sure. You don't have to buy his movies, just as you don't have to watch the mindless slaughter and pseudo-wargames on the latest videos at your neighborhood video store. Just be aware that every one of these moves is one more small step towards censorship. A very dangerous precedent indeed.

  15. #35
    Big5 is offline AH Enthusiast
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    mklap I completely disagree with you. The situation has nothing to do with 'PC' (political correctness) and everything to do with basic hunting 'ethics' and sportsmanship. Apparently you do not understand the difference, but I can assure you the difference is great.
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  16. #36
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    Well, that's the beauty of having a forum to disagree in, is it not? Mr. Sullivan, like his style or not, has been effectively denied that right.
    Believe me Sir, I understand the difference quite well. Hunting ethics and sportsmanship are integral to the well-being of our sport, obviously.
    What problem do you have with a well-placed shot at close range, virtually ensuring instant death of the quarry? As you should know, opportunities on old, wise animals are fleeting at best. Would you rather take a potshot from the safety of 100 yards, with the inherent risk of a deflected (or worse) shot?
    If SCI is worried about the graphic nature of the videos, I invite you to turn on your TV. Pick a channel. Any channel. You will see far worse carnage in 15 minutes there than on all of his videos put together. As I said earlier, you don't have to buy his merchandise (I personally don't own a one), but grant him the same right every other marketer with something dead in their brochures gets. If they enforce this fairly, the only ones to win will be the graphics folks, who will be reprinting every brochure in the hall.

  17. #37
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    I'm a life member of SCI and Mark Sullivan's hunting style is not ethical and doesn't paint a pretty picture for future generations. Every animal shot, should have it's life end as quick as possible. There should be some nobility. To egg a animal on when it's wounded....let's say this....I wish his gun would jam...there I said it....then the hunt could really start!

  18. #38
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    Mklap. . . in answer to your first question let me clearly state that I have no problem whatsoever “with a well-placed shot at close range, virtually ensuring instant death of the quarry”. Actually, I heartily advocate the hunting of all dangerous game animals up close and personal.

    In answer to your second question regarding whether I support the practice of “taking a potshot from the safety of 100 yards, with the inherent risk of a deflected (or worse) shot?” No, I actually condemn the practice of taking long shots on dangerous animals and feel to do so is quite unsportsmanlike.

    I feel compelled to mention that although I do not have Marks name listed in my ‘close and personal friendship directory’ I have known him on a first name basis for more than 20 years. I must also add that Mark and I have many mutual acquaintances and friends in common. From day one I viewed Mark as someone I would not be compatible hunting with, which is okay, but it took many years of ‘listening’ for me to gain a bit of insight and form the opinion I presently hold of Mark and his videos.

    In your post you invited me to turn on my TV and pick any channel for the purpose of seeing far worse carnage in 15 minutes than is contained on all Mark’s videos. What’s your point? For the most part what you see on TV is a dramatic ‘fantasy’ created for the sole purpose of entertaining an audience. On the other hand, for the most part what you see in Mark’s videos is a dramatic ‘reality’ created for the sole purpose of entertaining an audience. I won’t bore you with my credentials or details, but I quite well know the difference between fantasy and reality.

    I remain firm in my opinion that the dramatic reality I believe Mark ‘creates’ for the camera through extraordinary means is both cruel and unsportsmanlike. If you don’t agree, so be it. I would again defend your right to hold any opinion you choose to have.
    There is only one degree of dead . . . there are many degrees of wounded

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big5 View Post
    [B]... In your post you invited me to turn on my TV and pick any channel for the purpose of seeing far worse carnage in 15 minutes than is contained on all Mark’s videos. What’s your point? For the most part what you see on TV is a dramatic ‘fantasy’ created for the sole purpose of entertaining an audience. On the other hand, for the most part what you see in Mark’s videos is a dramatic ‘reality’ created for the sole purpose of entertaining an audience. I won’t bore you with any details, but I quite well know the difference between fantasy and reality.

    I remain firm in my opinion that the dramatic reality I believe Mark ‘creates’ for the camera through unnecessary means is both cruel and unsportsmanlike. If you don’t agree, so be it. I would again defend your right to hold any opinion you choose to have.
    Sir very very well said. I was actually going to make this point myself about television not being reality, however you beat me to it and said far better than I could have!

  20. #40
    Skyline is offline AH Fanatic
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    I agree.......well said Big5. I think that in fact sums up how many of us feel.

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