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Tipping Guide

This is a discussion on Tipping Guide within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the HUNT AFRICA category; Originally Posted by Bobpuckett hey james one of the things I did for my trackers is they love camo so ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpuckett View Post
    hey james one of the things I did for my trackers is they love camo so on ebay I got them some wetland and real tree Overalls NIB nice gifts for about 14.99 each and weight less then 3 pounds.
    I like this idea as a gift...but how do you know what sizes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpuckett View Post
    Norwegianwoods I know your getting alot of agreements on here and I in part agree with you but if my memory serves me right in the 9 years living off and on in Germany when you go out to eat your tip is added in to the bill for you weather you get good service or not the option is not left up to the person paying for the service were with tipping for hunts is left up to the hunter however I have never lived in Norway and it may be different there.
    Also people fail to take into account that in European countries waiters are not paid sub-minimum wage with the customer expected to make up the difference....

    In general, Europeans do not tip much as that is their culture and Americans are trained to tip by our culture.

    Sestoppleman has a European attitude about tipping (even though I don't know where he is from) as does the gentleman from Norway.

    In the end, it is apples to oranges trying to compare North American and European attitudes about tipping since their cultures in this area are vastly different.

    The question is what is the norm where you are doing business not where you are from.

    Just ask American waiters/waitresses that have the privilege of waiting on Europeans and get no or small tips because that is the norm in the guest country if they think it should be based on where the person getting the service provided is from or where the person providing the service is from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TERMINATOR View Post
    I like this idea as a gift...but how do you know what sizes?
    the best way is to contact your Outfitter and let them get the sizes for you, as in my case the trackers I will have on this hunt in May are the same trackers that I had in May 2010 as per my request. Bob
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    Quote Originally Posted by TERMINATOR View Post
    Also people fail to take into account that in European countries waiters are not paid sub-minimum wage with the customer expected to make up the difference....

    In general, Europeans do not tip much as that is their culture and Americans are trained to tip by our culture.

    Sestoppleman has a European attitude about tipping (even though I don't know where he is from) as does the gentleman from Norway.

    In the end, it is apples to oranges trying to compare North American and European attitudes about tipping since their cultures in this area are vastly different.

    The question is what is the norm where you are doing business not where you are from.

    Just ask American waiters/waitresses that have the privilege of waiting on Europeans and get no or small tips because that is the norm in the guest country if they think it should be based on where the person getting the service provided is from or where the person providing the service is from.
    Talking about sub-minimum wage I don't know what all Outfitters pay but I have read on this forum somewhere that it is as low as 100 US dollars a month for trackers and skinners how would any of us like to work for those kind of wages. Maybe some of the Outfitters on this forum can fill us in a little better on the wage part I for one would like to hear it per say from the Outfitters themself rather then listen to rumors and I'm not saying this is bad if that is the average wage then that is expected.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpuckett View Post
    Talking about sub-minimum wage I don't know what all Outfitters pay but I have read on this forum somewhere that it is as low as 100 US dollars a month for trackers and skinners how would any of us like to work for those kind of wages. Maybe some of the Outfitters on this forum can fill us in a little better on the wage part I for one would like to hear it per say from the Outfitters themself rather then listen to rumors and I'm not saying this is bad if that is the average wage then that is expected.
    Agreed.

    I was just pointing out that often used "restaurant" example is not relevant to the hunting industry because it is different in Europe than it is is North America and the hunting guides/outfitter business in North America are different than Africa.

    In North America, I don't tip my "Outfitter" but I tip my guide and camp staff assuming they do a good job.

    In Africa, I tip my PH IF he is the one guiding me all day and I tip the staff assuming they do a good job.

    In either case if the hunt was a disaster due to mis-management or lack of effort I would have no problem skipping the tip...and if the effort is there regardless of the results (they can't control weather or animal movements or the clients shooting ability) I will tip well

    The bottom line question is what is the custom for the service industry in the place you are visiting not what is custom in some other service industry in the place you are from or some other place you have seen...

    And on any continent some people are just cheap and want top quality for next to nothing and that is just how they are.

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    I dont think trackers or skinners or cooks wages are relevant here at all. They get what they are paid. They are not slaves, they can work for someone else. No its not America but they are free for the most part to work for whom they choose. Whether or not we would work for those wages or not is neither here nor there. Most of us at one time or another, have worked for peanuts, I know I have. Tipping that worker even a fat amount wont make a hill of beans difference to his bottom line over the course of a year. We cannot base what we tip on that persons wages.

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    Crap James, why are you always starting stuff like this.

    First, I get confused, then perplexed and finally slump into a MEGO condition (My Eyes Glaze Over)

    Is it enough ? Is it too much? did I bring the right treats?

    This year will be my first trip ever and my first of 2 for 2012, so how will I even know whether the service was good bad average. Since its my first trip I have no benchmark to reference.

    But, most importantly, this is really not what I signed on for. This sounds too much like work and these are my vacations, respite, relief, get-a-ways.

    Why wouldn't it just be simpler to say:
    day rate X number of days
    +
    trophy fees
    +
    observer fees
    +
    additional transportation fees if any
    ______________________________

    base total
    X
    some factor, I don't know, 10% maybe 15% for PG or 20% for DG or ?????
    ________________________
    tip total

    take that and hand it to the PH at the end of the show and let him cut it up amongst the staff ?

    My biggest fear related to all this is I go on a $25,000 hunt and hand the PH $5 grand and he looks at me like I am either a) a chump or b) a piker. Either of which would wipe that big Texas smile right off my face!

    Other advice is to talk to the Outfitter which seems to me to be just an invitation to start picking up his payroll and I already have one of those thank you very much or consult with the PH kind of puts him in an tight spot

    This is akin to asking a dancer in a gentleman's club what she expects as a tip. (btw her answer was "your car")

    There just has to be a better way and obviously it is a confounding subject just look at the length and breadth of this thread. It covers years and years and soon be ready for publishing, most probably in a multi volume set!

    All I ask is to define what the tip is based on (day rate trophy fees etc etc) and an acceptable percentage factor,that way I know what I'm in for and don't need to stress about it.

    Thanks all for enduring the rant!
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    Karen Blixen

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    LOL!LOL! Guys I think the point is at some point we're all right! and at the end of the hunt if I screw it up well like the song say's "I DID IT MY WAY"!!!!
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TERMINATOR View Post
    Also people fail to take into account that in European countries waiters are not paid sub-minimum wage with the customer expected to make up the difference....

    In general, Europeans do not tip much as that is their culture and Americans are trained to tip by our culture.

    Sestoppleman has a European attitude about tipping (even though I don't know where he is from) as does the gentleman from Norway.

    In the end, it is apples to oranges trying to compare North American and European attitudes about tipping since their cultures in this area are vastly different.

    The question is what is the norm where you are doing business not where you are from.

    Just ask American waiters/waitresses that have the privilege of waiting on Europeans and get no or small tips because that is the norm in the guest country if they think it should be based on where the person getting the service provided is from or where the person providing the service is from.
    I think the sub-minimum wages for waiters and then the expectation for the restaurant guests to make up for it, in the US is a disgrace
    And I know very well the tipping culture is different in US and Europe, and that is also why I say that many American hunters tip very much, often disregarding the service they get when they go hunting outside US.
    This makes a norm for what is expected to get as a tip.
    And it will in my opinion put a pressure on hunters going to Africa to hunt about how much they should tip.
    Almost none wants to look like a cheap greedy bastard and they tip according to the norm. Even if the experience was crap.

    I will never tip according to how many trophies I get or how good they are.
    I will tip according to how hard the PH and staff work to give me a great experience.

    When I went to SA last year on a PG hunt I learned a bit about how much the South Africans themselves tip when they go hunting.
    At the same place as I hunted, there were 5 South Africans hunting together with high income. Plastic surgeons and so on.
    Those 5 together tipped the same amount as I tipped alone for the same number of hunting days.
    Still I didn't tip as much as some think we should when hunting in Africa and I had an uncomfortable feeling of being a cheap greedy bastard when leaving the place because I knew I didn't tip as much as some recommend.

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    Norwegianwoods, that's very interesting about the SA hunters. I just think maybe it's starting to get a little over the top. Gifts, 20% tips, where does it end? 8-10% of the total hunt divided between everyone seems more than fair....unless the ph saves my life or something!

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    second wind i might be wrong but looking at the way you suggest, if you did a 21 day in tanzania which has the potential to cost you a $100,000 us plus, are you saying you would tip approx $15,000 us? which i think is ridiculous. ask your ph about how much the average tip for camp staff is and work from that, it probably wont sound a great deal to you, but as has been stated average wages in african countries are very low compared to the 1st world. as for your ph i think between $100. us to $150 us a day depending on length, type and outcome of the hunt is about right. this gives you something to work from, if you have a great hunt then you can raise the daily figure etc. the trackers usually get the biggest tips then cooks from the tip pot, but its best left to the ph to distribute it.

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    Default Found this recent Safari Tipping Guide that some PH'S & Outfitters are starting to put together.

    Tipping Guide

    Tipping, gratuity, 'greasing the guide' or whatever you choose to call it, is one of the most difficult decisions guided hunters have to make when an outfitted hunt is considered.Most hunters have never been on a guided hunt and have no idea what the protocol is.

    Hunters must remember that they are in the care of experienced professional guides whose skill and knowledge will most likely determine the success of their hunt.Tips are not an absolute necessity, but they are always greatly appreciated. The verbal acknowledgement of your efforts is just as important to a professional hunter as a monetary one, but it must be remembered that this is his way of paying the bills, not just a hobby which he does for fun.

    The main fact is that cash tips at the end of the hunt are a very important part of the professional guides' income.Most professional guides around the world consider it an insult to be offered a handshake at the end of the hunt, after putting in their best effort for their client.Being a professional he will shake your hand, congratulate on your trophy, thank you for hunting him with you and send you on your plane with a smile on his face. Truth be told, his last thought of you will be very much different to yours of him, if you slighted him at the end of the hunt.

    Professional hunters' earning potential is limited to a few months of the year, during which they must make enough money to see themselves and their families through the rest of the year. They also share the same emotions as the rest of us,including disappointment.

    Your guide's tip should be based on his effort and youroverall enjoyment of your hunting experience with "______________" Safaris. You should not reward bad service and lack of effort in the bush anymore than you should in a restaurant. If your safari was a well run and enjoyable experience and you wish to reward that with a gratuity please consult the sidebar for some guidelines.

    You should consider the degree of difficulty in securing your trophy. Professional hunters,especially those who hunt dangerous game, face serious injury and possibly death as a regular part of their job. This should surely count for something. Also remember that the guide is not usually the outfitter.

    Most professional hunters, who choose this as a career,enjoy the animals that they hunt, the country that they operate in, and in most cases, the clients with whom they join in a mutual adventure. Good ones are a lot of fun to be with,know their region, know their game,and are honest in their dealings and have the ability to make al hunters feel confident during the hunt,no matter what their level of hunting experience. They will always give a good effort and your satisfaction will always be the number one goal.True recognition of his effort is genuinely appreciated.

    The determining factor should be your honest feeling for the guide, as well as your financial situation in deciding what to give as a tip.


    SIDEBARS

    Gear in Place of Cash
    Sometimes a client may want to tip his guide with a piece of gear, instead of cash. A quality piece of gear will be a much appreciated gesture, although cash is preferable in most cases. If you decide to do this make sure that the item is of better quality than your guide already owns, not something you simply have no use for and are trying to get rid of. If you think of something he may need but don't have with you tell him to expect something in the mail, and make sure you follow through as soon as you get home. This act of etiquette will be much appreciated.

    Camp Staff
    The staffs in most African camps are quite large when compared to North American hunts. Tipping them can be a bit tricky as there are usually trackers, skinners, kitchen staff, tent boys, laundry staff, and general workers that make up the staff body. Consulting your guide or camp manager on what would be appropriate for the staff is usually the best idea. Another option is to tip the staff through your guide, and allow him to tip the staff according to their pecking order. Remember that although you may not see each person that is working to make your experience unforgettable, you would certainly miss their services should they take a day off. Don't forget about these folks.

    Trackers
    A tracker holds without a doubt the most important staff position on most safaris.You will be with them all day, every day, and will form bonds and pleasant memories together. The best option is to ask your professional hunter his thoughts at the end of the hunt and he will give you an idea of what might be appropriate. It is customary to tip the trackers personally, away from the other staff. It should be preceded by a word of thanks and a handshake. Even if you do not speak the lingo, your P.H. can translate,but the trackers will know what you are saying and appreciate you all the more for it.

    Game Scout
    Here in Zimbabwe, a government game scout will accompany you on your hunt each day. He is there legally to observe and to make sure that all the rules are obeyed. Some simply observe the hunt and do little else.But there a great many who become a very important part of the team by getting involved in the hunt, by tracking, changing flats, recovering game etc. "______________" Safaris very much appreciates you tipping yourgame scout at the end of the hunt if you get a hard working one. His job is dangerous, and his pay checks pitifully small in relation. Remember him if he worked hard for you.

    Your PH
    Professional hunters and their staff usually work a lot harder than the average waiter who earn a 10%-15% tip, and earn far less. Remember this before your final handshake at the end of your next hunt.




    I did leave the spread sheet on money off the post. roughly $50 USD a day for PH for plains game or $100 USD a day for dangerous game. The tracker, skinners and staff were at $5 to $15 a day depending on plains game or dangerous game.
    James Grage - New Mexico
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpuckett View Post
    Norwegianwoods I know your getting alot of agreements on here and I in part agree with you but if my memory serves me right in the 9 years living off and on in Germany when you go out to eat your tip is added in to the bill for you weather you get good service or not the option is not left up to the person paying for the service were with tipping for hunts is left up to the hunter however I have never lived in Norway and it may be different there.
    Just want to comment on this

    I find that sort of billing/tipping system to be totally wrong and absurd. Forced to pay a tip that the waiter might not deserve at all.

    I have worked as bouncer, bartender, waiter and a restaurant manager for some years.
    In Norway the tip is not included in the bill.
    The waiters get their wages and a tip is only to be considered as a nice bonus for giving the guest a great experience.

    But I have experienced the discussion come up now and then to write "tip included" on the bill even if it is not and the waiter gets the same wages disregarding how many guests or how expensive wine and food they sell.
    Specially at places with many tourists and specially with many American tourists.
    Because it is in general expensive to eat and drink out in Norway and many American tourists tend to tip as they usually do in the US.
    Of course making the waiters very happy, but making the restaurant experience more expensive than it should be.

    Not sure about how it is in Germany(to many years since I visited, so totally forgot), but in my experience are the German tourists coming to Norway the worst at giving tip of all.

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    I think the sub-minimum wages for waiters and then the expectation for the restaurant guests to make up for it, in the US is a disgrace
    And I know very well the tipping culture is different in US and Europe, and that is also why I say that many American hunters tip very much, often disregarding the service they get when they go hunting outside US.
    This makes a norm for what is expected to get as a tip.
    And it will in my opinion put a pressure on hunters going to Africa to hunt about how much they should tip.
    Almost none wants to look like a cheap greedy bastard and they tip according to the norm. Even if the experience was crap.

    I will never tip according to how many trophies I get or how good they are.
    I will tip according to how hard the PH and staff work to give me a great experience.

    When I went to SA last year on a PG hunt I learned a bit about how much the South Africans themselves tip when they go hunting.
    At the same place as I hunted, there were 5 South Africans hunting together with high income. Plastic surgeons and so on.
    Those 5 together tipped the same amount as I tipped alone for the same number of hunting days.
    Still I didn't tip as much as some think we should when hunting in Africa and I had an uncomfortable feeling of being a cheap greedy bastard when leaving the place because I knew I didn't tip as much as some recommend.
    BY Norwegianwoods

    I think we think a lot a like on the subject!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TERMINATOR View Post
    Also people fail to take into account that in European countries waiters are not paid sub-minimum wage with the customer expected to make up the difference....

    In general, Europeans do not tip much as that is their culture and Americans are trained to tip by our culture.

    Sestoppleman has a European attitude about tipping (even though I don't know where he is from) as does the gentleman from Norway.

    In the end, it is apples to oranges trying to compare North American and European attitudes about tipping since their cultures in this area are vastly different.

    The question is what is the norm where you are doing business not where you are from.

    Just ask American waiters/waitresses that have the privilege of waiting on Europeans and get no or small tips because that is the norm in the guest country if they think it should be based on where the person getting the service provided is from or where the person providing the service is from.

    BTW Terminator, I am US born and raised. I just dont have a herd mentality. Just to be clear as some seem to not understand. I do believe in tipping for good service and still tip when things dont go as planned, just not as much as if things had gone better.

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    I have just seen this from an outfitter. What do you think about the last point?

    Daily rates includes
    ■Service of a Professional hunter, tracker, skinner with vehicle and fuel
    ■Safari camp accommodation ,meals, snacks, soft drinks and alcohol in moderation.
    ■Field preparation of trophies and delivery of trophies at taxidermist company
    ■Laundry service
    ■All tips for safari staff

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsok View Post
    I have just seen this from an outfitter. What do you think about the last point?

    Daily rates includes
    ■Service of a Professional hunter, tracker, skinner with vehicle and fuel
    ■Safari camp accommodation ,meals, snacks, soft drinks and alcohol in moderation.
    ■Field preparation of trophies and delivery of trophies at taxidermist company
    ■Laundry service
    ■All tips for safari staff
    Who is the Outfitter and what are his rates? it sounds good but lets say he charges 500 dollars daily rate w/ trophies at the same price as others then it may not be as good a deal as paying 350 dollars daily rate and you just give them 100for a tip at the end of the hunt. i.e. staff get 100 to share 2 trackers get 100 each cost $300. 150 dollars extra each day 7 day hunt $1050 you lose $750. a little more info please.
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    Bobpuckett PM sent

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsok View Post
    Bobpuckett PM sent
    Thanks for the PM.

    Checking out there site and using todays Currency exchange there daily rate is about $420 1x1 for plains game and checking there prices there about average so taking it all in to consideration it not to bad an offer. and it takes the monkey off your back all you would have to worry about is the tipp for the PH.
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    I understand that the issue of tips is something almost mandatory. It must be regarded as a payment more than safari.
    Obviously if not these conformity with the work of the PH, not give tip. Is not it?
    Thank you

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