Who pays for none wounded charging animals?
This is a discussion on Who pays for none wounded charging animals? within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the Hunting Forums - Hunting in Africa category; MtGoat brought up a good point in another thread if a animal charges you or your group and your PH ...
10-23-2013, 03:18 PM #1
Who pays for none wounded charging animals?
MtGoat brought up a good point in another thread if a animal charges you or your group and your PH shoots it who's cost is it yours or the outfitter. To be clear this would be a none wounded animal not being shoot before the charge. As I believe once the client has wounded it all bets are off he owns it and must pay even if the PH has to follow up.The bills can wait there is hunting to be done
10-23-2013, 03:55 PM #2
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While being guided in Africa by a PH and depending on what country you are in you may have a game ranger/warden with you.
If you have made the decision to stalk the animal and to close the distance it is your animal and you need to prepared to pay. The stalk is not over until the PH says the quarry is not what he is looking for and you beat a hasty retreat.
As soon as the animal hit the dirt the country's paperwork will be filled out before leaving that location.
Your PH and Game ranger will have a conversation discussing a situation you have brought up. A determination will be made as to who is responsible for the shot animal. The hunter or the PH. Now in a few countries if the Hunter does not claim is deemed not liable for the quarry shot, they probably will need to drive or fly to the game rangers headquarters to discuss the event with the person in charge. From what i have read this could take a day to a few days to complete, and may or may not involve a fine and jail time for both the hunter and PH.
Now you being the client may or may not be along to testify what you observed or thought happened (if you were along you will be there). Now do you want to see that happen on your safari or are you willing to take the animal that was harvested. Tough pill to swallow at times.
I have had this happen to a friend of mine. They Shot the wrong elephant. What are you going to do when you are being charged and about to be run over by an elephant, shoot or die. They both shot and the cow went down. They got close and the wind changed while they were in the midst of a great elephant hunt. Basically killing the cow elephant shut them down for the rest of the 14 day safari. My friend ended up paying for the cow elephant and it ended his safari, however he was not able to get the ivory or tail and hide. And they were lucky it was a elephant and not a lion as he was told that would have been worse.
Now you could try the cash (chunks of bills, your PH will let you know how much) in the hand to see if the game ranger will look the other way and let you keep the buffalo. However, i am not sure you could do anything with Rhino, Lion, Female leopard or cow elephant. If it is a bull elephant you had better be shooting if you were that close as you will buy and eat that one.James Grage - New Mexico
Hold a steady Eye & Rifle...
"Very few of the so-called liberals are open-minded...they shout you down and won't let you speak if you disagree with them." John Wayne
10-23-2013, 06:45 PM #3
Thanks James I know the routine on most hunts. I have had game rangers with us on four separate occasions and have hunted elephant lion and buffalo. With that being said I have also had a warthog charge with no reason at all. As well as run over civet and warthog will traveling in Africa. I have had lion come inspect us will sitting at a pan. I guess my question is for others out there and PH do make mistakes like all people do and sometimes you just don't know there is a animal there until your in its fight or flight zone will in thick brush.The bills can wait there is hunting to be done
10-24-2013, 03:58 AM #4
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And on private land?
The farmer still needs to be paid...Me as an Outfitter are kept responsible for the damages in the eye's of the farmer. Will i FROM MY SIDE keep the Client responsible for the account?...don't know, didn't happen to me yet... , perhaps the account must be split between organization (PH) and client...The other side of the coin, If the client was hunting alone without any PH to guide him and the animal charged, was he then accountable for the account?, why not while hunting with a PH?
10-24-2013, 05:58 AM #5
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I was wondering about this.I know each can be different but would must say a charging animal is one that was wounded or fatally hit.I would think a animal heart or lung shot may turn and run.Then a animal gut shot or hit in none vital area would be coming to attack who hurt it.I know i would find it hard to pay for something i never shot at but the animal gets killed by the PH.I shoot make the bad shot then it is on me I made the problem and would understand the follow up needed for safety.If I was not with a guide and had to shot a charging animal that would be on me I shot.I think asking a client to pay if he did not shot would be a problem.
10-24-2013, 06:12 AM #6
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10-24-2013, 08:45 AM #7
Interesting twist on this sort of situation played out during my trip to the Caprivi. I was there to hunt buff and another party was present for buff and elephant - with film crew and what I assumed was bwana's niece for the first couple of days :-) . I hunted with a staff PH, and the other client hunted with the owner. A second PH accompanied the hunt as part of his quals for his dangerous game license. Apparently, they worked their way in on a good tusker which was accompanied by a younger bull. At the shot, the younger bull was so startled that he stumbled in trying to run. The PH assumed he had been hit by the client by mistake, and put two "follow-up" shots into the younger bull, which the client and second PH then banged away at as well. The result of this gun battle was two very dead bull elephants. To the PH/ owner's credit, he assumed full responsibility for the second bull, and when I pulled out, was just entering what I hear were protracted negotiations with the conservency to turn the second bull into a PAC animal."We sleep peaceably in our beds because rough men stand ready in the
night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" Winston Churchill
10-24-2013, 09:00 AM #8
Thanks for the story Red Leg I'm shore there are more like it and thanks to the outfitters and PH comments it nice to here there input and side as wellThe bills can wait there is hunting to be done
10-24-2013, 09:32 AM #9
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It's a good topic. We hunt a fair bit for plains game where buffalo, elephant and rhino occur and it's definitely in the back of my mind whilst I'm guiding there. You don't want be in a situation where you're hunting a nyala and end up paying for a buffalo or much worse a white rhino. It's open country though and it's not all that likely to happen if you're careful. Most landowners and officials I think will work with you in that situation. However, I think if you're hunting dangerous game, get charged and shoot an animal the client is liable for that. It's part and parcel of hunting dangerous game and the hunting party has put themselves in a situation that otherwise wouldn't have occurred. All PH'ing mistakes though, wrong animal, second animal shot by PH by mistake, undersized trophy taken are for the PH's account. If you do this long enough it will happen to you and if you know the landowner and have a relationship with him he may cut you a break.
10-24-2013, 10:00 AM #10
From a Zim perspective, the PH is responsible even if he didn't fire the shot. His responsibilities are documented on the back of the TR2 Hunt authorisation forms. In such a case, he'd have to get statements from everyone there and take multiple pictures to prove that it was shot in self defence. There is always a game scout or Nat. Parks ranger on the safari. These people are key witnesses to what transpires to a safari which is why they're there. He'll have to prove his case convincingly or face being fined or worse.
In most cases, where there's a parks ranger with, he'll most likely let rip with his AK long before the danger becomes a real threat if he's not tightly controlled by the PH. Mostly this stops the charge or turns it, but if it doesn't, then the hunting party will be at liberty to do the necessary. As long as the statements are taken from that ranger whilst he's still hyped up, he'll back up any shoot to kill actions seeing as he saw fit to start shooting first!
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