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What is wrong with you people?

This is a discussion on What is wrong with you people? within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the HUNT AFRICA category; For me ....................hunting is all consuming. I think about it all the time. I am thinking about my next hunt ...

  1. #1
    Skyline is offline AH Fanatic
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    Default What is wrong with you people?

    For me ....................hunting is all consuming. I think about it all the time. I am thinking about my next hunt as I type this thinking about a negative I see in the great scheme of hunting things.

    I see a 4 day sable special.......no offense but it prompted this. FOUR Days......OH MOTHER OF GOD.........yes and killing a 400+ bull elk with a tag in it's ear and same day in and out service is in the same ballpark.

    Yes I am a 'booking agent', 'hunting consultant', know it all SOB, but boys and girls I do not like this trend to head collecting .....................gold medal, right now..........want my head delivered in 6 months Mr. Taxidermist.

    I am probably making Jerome pull his hair out with this post............but I don't like it!!!!!

    I can feel it.......go ahead and fire away.

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    TOM's Avatar
    TOM
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    I guess i don't fully understand the post.

    Are you saying that the 4 days is too short? If so, i agree. BUT, i also would think that the outfitter will try and persuade the hunter to stay more days. I know if i flew over there i would stay more than 4 days.
    Tom

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    Skyline is offline AH Fanatic
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    Tom.....actually the fact that you do not understand my post is what i was getting at.

    4 days.............I guess it is because i come from a pack in to the wilderness and shoot a couple head in three weeks sort of background. Zambia is about wilderness here so far in most posts...not in 4 days..........

    I should probably just delete this topic. I am just thinking out loud here and will no doubt get hammered for it.

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    husb0023 is offline AH Senior Member
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    I understand that if I am going to have a reasonable chance at killing any large game animal under fair chase/free-range circumstances I am going to need a minimum of 7 days. Even if I spend 14 days, under some circumstances, my hunt is going to be unsuccessful and I'm fine with that as long as the experience was worth undertaking.
    I too don't understand the in and out, tag 'em, bag 'em, stuff 'em style of hunting. I would rather hunt my ass off in a blowing blizzard for 2 weeks and not see anything than participate in a speed hunt.

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    Kelly, do not delete it.

    We have to have everything now. We have no patience. Send me a picture of the animal I can kill behind the fence, I will fly in, shoot it, and I will leave. There was a poster on AR that had a picture of a cape buffalo in a boma that he was auctioning to hunt. He got hammered pretty hard for it but somebody ultimately paid a bunch of money to "hunt" that animal.

    When I go to Zim this year I have several extra days before and after the hunt just to enjoy myself. I never asked if there is a refund if I do not kill an animal. I just want to be there and enjoy the camp, the tracking, and generally being in Africa, shooting the animals is almost anticlimatic for me. Next year we booked 20 days to allow alot of goof off time, more pictures, time to visit, time to take in the local culture. Slow down an enjoy your hunt.

    I am writing this as I am also frustrated with my current profession, I came home at lunch and have not decided if I will return. Maybe I can become a hunting consultant.

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    Default Not everyone is this way...

    Skyline - while you are probably on-point with your post, take heart, not everyone is this way. My wife and I go for the enjoyment of the hunt, seeing new places and learning new things.

    The pleasure is in the hunt, not hanging the top-ten trophy on the wall.

    - browningbbr

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    We, maybe should look at the people who create the demand for these guaranteed hunts ?

    If any PH tells you that you have 100% chance on a high profile animal better check it up as true hunting is all about chances, and you better be prepared to come home empty handed or change to another trophy on the hunt.
    Frederik Cocquyt, Outfitter and Professional Hunter
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    Hunting in some places is becoming more like window shopping, with an option to buy...
    There was a time when i used to sell 5-day buffalo hunts in the Kilombero and although we managed 100% success, it was always funny dealing with the characters who opted for this budget package and asked if they could sleep the afternoon or have an hour more in the morning. They wondered why we never returned to camp for lunch and just took a lunchbox with us. Even questioned the 4am wake-up call! You asked for the workload - so deal with it! Six safaris of that, back-to-back and even the Ph would start asking the above questions - those safari only lasted two seasons. Nevertheless, it was tough, relentless hunting and hell came down on whoever even thought of turning down a good mature bull! A few made the mistake of asking whether it was a 40" bull... This usually resulted in earlier wake-up calls, longer treks, skipped lunches and generally a work ethic that automatically reduced the expectations on a 5-day true wilderness buffalo hunt. Hunters should really THINK about what is on offer and make decisions, knowing the conditions and possible consequences of 'special deals'.

    You cannot guarantee a true wilderness hunt even if you have a 100% success rate like i do! You cannot put time limits on wilderness hunts or expect a specific trophy size. The whole essence of hunting wild places is to experience nature at its' best and truly venture into the unknown. Don't know how this thread started, but i can tell that some people are not happy about some of the 'butcher shop' sales being promoted?

    Anyway, the person paying is who ultimately decides on whether he/she is a hunter or a shooter. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. Having a gun and knowing how to shoot straight does not make you a hunter - neither does a fine collection of trophies 'bought'. The hunter is one who hunts - and we all know that hunts are not always successful but more than that, is the fact that hunting is a wholesome experience that is only in the blood of a true hunter. It can never be bought or replicated or borrowed. It is REAL!
    Ryan Shallom (CEO)
    www.wild-footprints.com
    Tanzania, East-Africa.

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    I don't know the particulars of the sourse of this thread, but I assume it is someone offering a sable, on a very assured basis, on a 4 day stay in Africa.

    If that is, in fact, the case then like Kelly, it would be waving a very red flag that the person offereing it also owns a fairly small fenced area to shoot it in!
    Zambia being mentioned in the text, seems to be the place, and if that is the case as well, then I certainly would be suspicious for sure. I have spent a lot of days in the Luangwa Valley, on three occasions, and some time in the banguelu, and the Kafuwe, and I have never even seen a Sable there! Admittedly, that is only a small part of the country of Zambia, (a country about the size of Texas) but all the places where I have hunted there I was told there were Sable. So I guess what I'm saying is, if I didn't see even one in a several thousands acres, and about 20 days of hunting, anyone who can assure you of a sable in 4 days must know where he is at all times!
    DUGABOY1 www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
    "If I die today I have had a life well spent, for I have been to see the elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa" qt by Damon(mac) McCartney

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    I have shot only two sables. One in Zimbabwe's Matetsi, the other in Zambia's Kafue region. I could have shot a good sable every day in each of those places. Those two hunts, though, left me with the impression that the bulls were territorial, and hung around the same clearings unless badly spooked.

    Bill Quimby

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    Ooops! I had not read the post below this one in which sables on a game farm at the edge of Luksaka were offered.

    My thoughts that it would not be difficult for someone operating in an excellent area for free-ranging sable to produce a trophy bull sable in four days still apply, though.

    Bill Quimby

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    Hi Guys

    I do understand where you are coming from and I totally agree that fair chase wild hunting is what it`s all about and if I were the client I wouldn`t pay for anything less. I have tried to be clear from the start that this is a farm hunt within Zambia.

    Charly
    [COLOR=#9b6019]Shavesgreen[B]

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    'Skyline' . . . I feel I do understand your post and I think you are correct in what you say. Sadly, we are becoming a 'I want it now society' which I believe may be leading us away from the core experience and subsequent enjoyment of many things, not just sport hunting.

    Your post also makes me reminisce. It brought back the time in '94 when I was out on the first afternoon of a 10 day spring brown bear hunt on Admiralty Island, Alaska, when I spotted a huge boar (guide estimated minimum 10 footer). He was eating sedge grass out on the point of an inlet and completely unaware of our presence. When the guide asked if I wanted to put a stalk on the bruiser, I promptly declined. I remember sitting there thinking about what I would do for the remainder of the hunt if I dropped that big toad on the very first afternoon. Fortunately the guide was in agreement with my reasoning and, after watching him for a while, we continued on our way. Besides, that boar was so big I reckoned he could kick the snot out of any adversary that attempted to take over his point on that inlet so I could probably return and find him in a few days time if I chose to.

    The next seven or eight days of the hunt were spent trying to locate another big boar, catching shrimp, crabs, photographing eagles and watching passing whales. Upon being unsuccessful in our attempts to find another big boar we then decided to concentrate our final couple of days efforts back in the inlet where we spotted the huge boar on the first afternoon. But, unfortunately, we were never able to locate him again.

    During the final hour on the last day of the hunt we finally spotted a mature boar. After a long stalk that boar subsequently went down after two shots from my .375 H&H knocked on his front door. He squared out at a bit shy of 9 feet, but I was very happy. I can assure you that I wouldn't trade the hunting experience it took for me to get him.

    I've continued hunting coastal browns, grizzlies and the bears in Kamchatka since that time, but I've never seen a bear as big as that bruiser I passed up back in '94. No regrets here! I actually look at it as a good thing because hunting brown bears is a great sport and the memory of that big bear gives me good reason to keep doing it.

    I truly believe the fun of hunting is the hunt itself. That's why for as long as Iím able I'll continue going out hunting for a brown bear as big as that lumbering toad from í94 which has never wandered beyond my memory.
    There is only one degree of dead . . . there are many degrees of wounded

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    Skyline is offline AH Fanatic
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    Big 5................yes, that is exactly the point.

    Many of my best trophies are still out there walking around and breathing......................but I was there. I participated.I was in their space for a while.

    Ryan, you and others on here know what I am talking about. We need to quit focusing on the kill and the size and instead dwell on the support that allowed us to be there in the first place.

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    Ever play a game where there is a 100% chance of winning? There isn't much excitement. It's like playing Monopoly with an 8 year-old. You'll win all right, but the outcome was never in doubt. Whooop-de-doo. It's like watching your favorite team play the Detroit Lions. Sure, they'll win, but by the next day the game won't even be remembered.

    The best hunts are those when you aren't really sure it will work out. I think that's why the trophy that magically appears during the last hour of the last day of the hunt will forever stand out. It's the uncertainty that keeps it fun. Collecting a head for the wall is OK I guess, sort of like collecting collector plates or shot glasses. Really though, I dump money on the taxidermist mostly to remember the friends, the stalk, and the sunrise over the desert that day. Anything else is sort of like fishing at the fish hatchery.

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    Hi Skyline,

    I just read your article on elk hunting the northern wilderness of Canada. There was a lot of good information on where elk are found in Canada and what to expect on a pack in hunt. And Yes it is a lot different than the Arizona, Utah and New Mexico hunts. The wilderness hunt in British Columbia is more about the "the journey" than the huge antlers on the elk. Which can be a very rewarding experience.

    I do struggle with the ranches everywhere around the world. But there are so many people out there.

    And when a guy is willing to pay $150,000 for a governors tag to hunt elk in Utah....you can pretty much figure out there are the rich and the poor.

    Unfortunately there is little you can do about it....if it was Friday I'd say let's have a drink! But since it's Monday....to each his own.

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    E.............indeed. We just have to figure out where we can have the drink together. I hope you enjoyed the article.

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    mbogobutch is offline New Member
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    Default What is wrong with you people

    I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU FOLKS,,,INCLUDING THE FELLOW THAT OFFERED THE FARM HUNT...NOT MY CUP OF TEA BY ANY MEANS.....BUT TO ALL YOU OUTFITTERS AND PH'S...YOU OWE YOUR VERY BEST TO EVERY HUNTER ,ON EVERY HUNT PERIOD!!!! ALOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT BOOK SHORT HUNTS WILL LATER BE YOUR BEST CUSTOMERS....JUST MY OPINION

  19. #19
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    Very true Mbogobutch... but it is always a team effort and the team needs to do what it takes to pursue success, given the limitations. There will be a lot of fun to be had and lessons to be learned along the way - but ultimately, the shorter the period, the pressure increases (Outfitters & PH's always have success on their minds - it is our daily bread). It is never guaranteed, but always pursued. Many factors come into play, but one thing you can be assured of - is the commitment from your professional. Just don't set your expectations too high on a short hunt - you may get a chance - take it in consideration of all the factors. You may get lucky and bag a trophy in the first day that a precious 28-day hunter was wearing out his boots for. It's all in the game - play fair and play hard. You will most likely be partying hard after the game too. Cheers.
    Ryan Shallom (CEO)
    www.wild-footprints.com
    Tanzania, East-Africa.

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    ,,,Wow I can't believe a thread started yesterday has this many replies!! There isn't one thing extra that I can think of to add!! It's pretty simple some people don't know what the whole hunt experience is about - the whole world seems to judge on speed & success! The true memories are the hardships, the experience, the success at the last minute of the last day, or taking a lesser trophy after passing up the monster at the beginning of the hunt or even going home skunked!!
    The true hunter has probably experience all of these & it would take a lot of freeekin beer & one big bonfire to pass all of those tales on!!!

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