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What keeps you from taking your dream hunt to Africa because you are afraid of coming home empty handed?

This is a discussion on What keeps you from taking your dream hunt to Africa because you are afraid of coming home empty handed? within the Hunting Africa forums, part of the HUNT AFRICA category; For me it's the leopard! He's unpredictable, expensive, and I'm not thrilled about sitting in a blind waiting, hoping, and ...

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    Default What keeps you from taking your dream hunt to Africa because you are afraid of coming home empty handed?

    For me it's the leopard! He's unpredictable, expensive, and I'm not thrilled about sitting in a blind waiting, hoping, and praying for Mr. Spots to show up.
    In North America it is the Sonora Mule Deer. I would say stone sheep but he is crazy expensive. I'd love a big mule deer but tag soup would not taste well.
    I didn't mention bongo, mt. nyala, or lord eland derby because they are very specialized hunts.

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    So is Leopard....is it not as specialized as bongo, mt.Nyala and others? I find it hard to believe that there is any diffrentiation between them,....once again I believe that many hunters toy with the idea of Leopard hunting, and do combinations, with other species, and while some are victorious most are not.....

    I do believe the lack of incentive in pricing as far as daily rate vs trophy fee is the major problem...

    To me MT lion but it'll take some time.

    My best always.
    Jaco Strauss
    Kwalata Wilderness safaris - South Africa/Mozambique
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    Well the home range for LDE, bongo and mt. Nyala is very small compared to the leopard. And they are special, I'd rather hunt all 3 over the leopard, but would be broke. In a lot ways I'm happy as hell to settle for hunting anywhere in Africa for kudu. Best animal for the dollar...right up there with a lot of spiral horns.
    I think some outfitters are better for leopard than others some guys. In the Limpopo area guys are baiting months before the hunt to ensure leopards are there when their hunters are there.
    And you are right some guys aren't serious during their leopard hunts.
    And high daily fees keep people away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enysse View Post
    Well the home range for LDE, bongo and mt. Nyala is very small compared to the leopard. And they are special, I'd rather hunt all 3 over the leopard, but would be broke. In a lot ways I happy as hell to settle for hunting anywhere in Africa. Best animal for the dollar...right up there with a lot of spiral horns.
    Very true Enysse agreed would be interesting to see total number of all exported annually compared to hunting tags issued, it would give some perspective.....

    My best always
    Jaco Strauss
    Kwalata Wilderness safaris - South Africa/Mozambique
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    For me it is the cost of some hunts. Now I'm not talking Big Five or the dangerous 7 they have already out priced their self for most of the hunting population they have become the sport of the rich and only something to read about for people like me and specialized game well we need not go there "Giant Forest Hog $45,000" but daily rates are going out the roof $450.00- $600.00 for Plains Game. I was try to talk some friends in to going to Africa with me and when they start looking at the cost just to stay at the lodge I had one tell me there's no need for him to go there he hasn't lost anything over there. Its worth it to Deb and I because we enjoy the sights and good company but maybe some of the Outfitters and PH's can shed a little light on the subject why are the daily fees for hunters so much higher then for some one doing a photo safari heck we sleep in the same type beds and eat the same type food.
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

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    The giant forest hog is crazy expensive, no argument. The daily fees will kill you!

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    Bob, I understand your concerns, as far as $380 - $450 I would say its not overly expensive, I pay $200+ in a good 4 star hotel in Dallas and Reno, Houston without breakfast or open bar or a nice guy to estcort me around the entire time.......
    at $450 a good outfitter will pay a PH no less than $150 a day (remember guys with experience and open licenses have families, they are true professionals and with their own vehicles to maintain and mortgages its actually peanuts)

    A profesional chef in camp roughly $80 - $100 camp staff, food drinks electricity getting water to camp, pumps vehicles for managing the ranch and then petrol at just short of $6 a gallon and a large property of 10 000 acres

    It's gone all gone, high occupancy sausage machine style operations with small areas can do it but that would not neccaseraly be what a hunter wants, guys who want individual attention and an exclusive experience and who do not want to feel like a number in a 20 occupancy camp will pay good daily rates to receive this.

    It's not for everyone for sure but so is the flip side, I and most would not label it as over priced just because that would not be fair as it most definitely has its place in our diverse industry.
    Thanks for your continued support in visiting our country and continent....

    My best always
    Jaco Strauss
    Kwalata Wilderness safaris - South Africa/Mozambique
    Jaco@kwalata.com
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    Your vehicle costs in Africa are crazy! I do feel sorry for how much it costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaco Strauss View Post
    Bob, I understand your concerns, as far as $380 - $450 I would say its not overly expensive, I pay $200+ in a good 4 star hotel in Dallas and Reno, Houston without breakfast or open bar or a nice guy to estcort me around the entire time.......
    at $450 a good outfitter will pay a PH no less than $150 a day (remember guys with experience and open licenses have families, they are true professionals and with their own vehicles to maintain and mortgages its actually peanuts)

    A profesional chef in camp roughly $80 - $100 camp staff, food drinks electricity getting water to camp, pumps vehicles for managing the ranch and then petrol at just short of $6 a gallon and a large property of 10 000 acres

    It's gone all gone, high occupancy sausage machine style operations with small areas can do it but that would not neccaseraly be what a hunter wants, guys who want individual attention and an exclusive experience and who do not want to feel like a number in a 20 occupancy camp will pay good daily rates to receive this.

    It's not for everyone for sure but so is the flip side, I and most would not label it as over priced just because that would not be fair as it most definitely has its place in our diverse industry.
    Thanks for your continued support in visiting our country and continent....

    My best always
    Thanks Jaco I knew that I just wanted others to see it, I have had people ask me that and I try to explain but its better coming from someone that does it then someone that only knows a little about it. its the same for tipping when I try to explain why I tip the trackers so well by the time I get through trying to explain I'm only giving them 2 or 3 dollars an hour for all the hard work they put in for me a day I just tell them if they had 2 of those guys working here they would fire all of our lazy asses.
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

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    INTERESTING TOPIC GUYS.
    I look at it this way from my view point, I don't want to be #9 in 10 or 15 hunters in camp. Just my preference. Some hunters love that. Just look to Quebec Caribou hunting. It's just not for me. I have brought several others the Africa and they were mostly couples with a Father/Son dropped in. They all wanted to be more "exclusive" on their hunt and they were willing to accept a higher daily fee to accomplish that. None of them would have liked the "maybe" lower cost of a hunting mill operation. Some people do, some people don't. I my mind, Africa may not be the place to look for the lowest bidder if you truly want a great vacation. AND, it is a complete, great vacation when all is taken in. Many hunters over here in the US look at hunting as "get there Friday night, get something down Saturday and get home Sunday" as a hunting experience and most don't look at the complete experience as a vacation. I do think this works into the booking equation at shows especially in Texas where "hunting mills" are prevalent. Get in tonight, drop something in the morning and go home for football on Sunday.
    When all the costs are tallied up and the logistics of providing a world class vacation in a remote country, $400-$500/day doesn't seem out of line for that treatment and exclusivity. Market forces will still drive the ultimate prices. With the US economy still in the dumps and still going down, that will have an eventual effect on some prices and the continued existence of some operators. Unfortunate but true. There are only so many customers for so many operators. Target markets may have to change.
    IF YOU GO ONCE-YOU WILL GO AGAIN-DEAL WITH IT

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    As far as dream Safari go....

    The only thing holding the posters here from going is Money.

    So if you cannot afford a Leopard safari you schedule a Kudu safari and that is how it goes.

    If the daily fees keep you from going it was never for you in the first place... That is just and excuse to not go.

    Many on here save to make those kind of plans and go every year.

    All the PH's on here would be out of business if they had to wait for the very rich to book with them.
    James Grage - New Mexico
    Hold a steady Eye & Rifle...
    "Very few of the so-called liberals are open-minded...they shout you down and won't let you speak if you disagree with them." John Wayne

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    Quote Originally Posted by James.Grage View Post
    As far as dream Safari go....

    The only thing holding the posters here from going is Money.

    So if you cannot afford a Leopard safari you schedule a Kudu safari and that is how it goes.

    If the daily fees keep you from going it was never for you in the first place... That is just and excuse to not go.

    Many on here save to make those kind of plans and go every year.

    All the PH's on here would be out of business if they had to wait for the very rich to book with them.
    That is very true James as I have seen in other places, if you really want it you will find a way for others theres excuses
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

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    No James, it's not quite that black and white. It's not all about the money. It's about being success at the end of the hunt. I know plenty of people that have spent 20 grand and went home with nothing. Be it moose, grizzly, sheep or leopard. Believe me there were hard feelings.
    I mention kudu because I'd rather hunt 4-5 kudu in the East Cape in Africa for 10 grand than risk 20 grand and have nothing but memories and hunting experience.
    But you are right in some ways James, I'm getting old enough to think about retirement rather than take a risky hunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James.Grage View Post
    As far as dream Safari go....

    The only thing holding the posters here from going is Money.

    So if you cannot afford a Leopard safari you schedule a Kudu safari and that is how it goes.

    If the daily fees keep you from going it was never for you in the first place... That is just and excuse to not go.

    Many on here save to make those kind of plans and go every year.

    All the PH's on here would be out of business if they had to wait for the very rich to book with them.
    True words indeed MR. Grage although I would amend that to PH's in general and not just on here.

    My best always
    Jaco Strauss
    Kwalata Wilderness safaris - South Africa/Mozambique
    Jaco@kwalata.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post
    INTERESTING TOPIC GUYS.
    I look at it this way from my view point, I don't want to be #9 in 10 or 15 hunters in camp. Just my preference. Some hunters love that. Just look to Quebec Caribou hunting. It's just not for me. I have brought several others the Africa and they were mostly couples with a Father/Son dropped in. They all wanted to be more "exclusive" on their hunt and they were willing to accept a higher daily fee to accomplish that. None of them would have liked the "maybe" lower cost of a hunting mill operation. Some people do, some people don't. I my mind, Africa may not be the place to look for the lowest bidder if you truly want a great vacation. AND, it is a complete, great vacation when all is taken in. Many hunters over here in the US look at hunting as "get there Friday night, get something down Saturday and get home Sunday" as a hunting experience and most don't look at the complete experience as a vacation. I do think this works into the booking equation at shows especially in Texas where "hunting mills" are prevalent. Get in tonight, drop something in the morning and go home for football on Sunday.
    When all the costs are tallied up and the logistics of providing a world class vacation in a remote country, $400-$500/day doesn't seem out of line for that treatment and exclusivity. Market forces will still drive the ultimate prices. With the US economy still in the dumps and still going down, that will have an eventual effect on some prices and the continued existence of some operators. Unfortunate but true. There are only so many customers for so many operators. Target markets may have to change.
    As you say Cliffy some do not want a lot of people around and would rather have the camp to them self as for me it depends on the size of the hunting area if its a smaller area then I would rather have it for myself but as you seen in Dallas I like shooting the shit and in the evening after the day of hunting is done and we're sitting at the bar waiting on dinner I like talking to other hunters and looking at the pics and seeing the glow in their faces of the animals that they took that day. last year while I was hunting at HHS I came in and was talking to a hunter that was in Africa for his first time I ask him how his hunting was and he told me it was the best day of his life. I said Wow what did you get he said a Jackal a Baboon and 3 monkeys you couldn't have slaped the grin off his face he's booked again for this year and going to bring his girlfriend along. I love that stuff.
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

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    Bob you are correct I too like seeing first timers after their first day. That's why I like to go with them. To each his own and each will enjoy what they like. As for our dinner in Dallas? WOW what a grand time we had.
    IF YOU GO ONCE-YOU WILL GO AGAIN-DEAL WITH IT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaco Strauss View Post
    So is Leopard....is it not as specialized as bongo, mt.Nyala and others? I find it hard to believe that there is any diffrentiation between them,....once again I believe that many hunters toy with the idea of Leopard hunting, and do combinations, with other species, and while some are victorious most are not.....

    I do believe the lack of incentive in pricing as far as daily rate vs trophy fee is the major problem...

    To me MT lion but it'll take some time.

    My best always.
    We'll have to talk a trade, Leopard for Mtn Lion (Cougar).
    Practice whispering before you leave for Africa!
    A Legend in my own mind!

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    Enysse

    I truly do understand were you are coming from this must be a nerve wrecking experience for every client.

    Personally I feel that this is were starting out with a plains game hunt with a good Outfit is essential. Once you have had a good experience with the particular Outfit it should set your mind at ease a certain level of trust should have been earned after the 1st hunt with the Outfit.

    This might be a tough task at times since there are some guy's out there who don't care but I can assure you that for every bad Outfit there are at least 3 good Outfits.

    Jaco made a good point in saying that experienced Outfitters/PH's will not be selling their hunts for the cheapest as we all know and have discussed in the past it takes a lot of sacrifices be it personal or financial to build up a good reputation and once you are fortunate enough to have built up a good name it takes even harder work to stay there.

    The bottom line is both the Outfitter/ PH and the client would be taking a risk since nature is not controllable as we all know but if there is a basis of trust built up over past hunts it should be enough to keep spirits high even when things are tough at times trust in your abilities are exactly what is needed especially in a situation were you start doubting yourself . I can assure you that for most good Outfits it is a priority to get the client his leopard in fact a lot of the guy's take great pride in these kind of hunts.

    Unfortunately this whole thing comes down to trust (earned by Outfit/PH) and experience or at least that is how I see it.

    Best Regards
    Louis van Bergen
    Louis Van Bergen
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    It is clearly Leopard for me. Specially when I also include the potential 10-14 mind numbing days in a blind that I pay high daily fees for and then going home empty.

    I know many Outfitters and PHs are very serious, but very high daily rates and very low trophy fees on a Leopard doesn't exactly encourage the Outfitter and PH to do their best to get the client his/her Leopard.

    It is extremely few people if any I will trust to give 25% or more of my yearly income after taxes even before my hunt has started and with no knowledge of the result of the hunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post
    Bob you are correct I too like seeing first timers after their first day. That's why I like to go with them. To each his own and each will enjoy what they like. As for our dinner in Dallas? WOW what a grand time we had.
    Yes Cliffy we did have a Grand Time I sure hope more AH members can join us next time.
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

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