Thinking of getting CZ in 9.3X62

[kingcorona]

Wow

Sorry, kingcorona, I agree with Mike 100%, I have taken physics classes.
There are a ton of complaints back in the day about the .458 Win. I think it was to do with bad power and lead bullets myself, with today's bullets and powder it is one of the deadliest rifles out there. You send a Barnes, Nosler or NorthFork solid at super speed and you are going to have some super penetration and shock damage to the surrounding tissue.
Now if you speed up a lead bullet, it's possible to have decreased penetration do to expreme mushrooming of the bullet, because it hits so fast.
The way they are making bullets today, GS customs, NorthFork, GMX, Barnes, E-tip...faster is better!

My god..even these bullet manufacturers have theoretical limits to their max MV.........Speed is NOT the absolute detreminate of penetration regardless of bellet/projectile type from a gun...now a M1 Abrams thats a different story...why they use depleted Uranium......more than twicce as heavy as lead per volume......why my super hypersonic 30-378 rounds{160gr at 4000fps) use an alloy bullet with titanium.........not even Barnes makes a projectile that can hold together at that velocity at impact..............There are many cases of PH in Africa who upon hearin a hunter will use a 460wby will ask them to down load it to 458wmor Lott MV's as deflection on bone increases and why a 458WM will out penetrate it with the same bullet......remember for every force their is an equal and opposite force both going back inthe form of recoil and ahead of a projectile in a shock wave.....next time your at a pool take 2 identicle stones.....drop one in and throw the other in as hard as possible....guess which one hits bottom first?.....pure fluid dynamics.........ask any fluid dynamics engineer.......only saying...it defies simple logic until you understand the dynamics...........do YOUR due diligence and read Jarret's web site as he makes some good points...........

 

[enysse]

if you can get hold of some RWS 293grn uni-classic ammunition try it. my favourite as a non reloader.

Thanks, the ammo availability is not good. We need to have ocean shipments of ammo sent here...there is never enough. You know how we roll here in the USA, everyone stockpiles ammo and guns.
I loved RWS's website.

 

[enysse]

My god..even these bullet manufacturers have theoretical limits to their max MV.........Speed is NOT the absolute detreminate of penetration regardless of bellet/projectile type from a gun...now a M1 Abrams thats a different story...why they use depleted Uranium......more than twicce as heavy as lead per volume......why my super hypersonic 30-378 rounds{160gr at 4000fps) use an alloy bullet with titanium.........not even Barnes makes a projectile that can hold together at that velocity at impact..............There are many cases of PH in Africa who upon hearin a hunter will use a 460wby will ask them to down load it to 458wmor Lott MV's as deflection on bone increases and why a 458WM will out penetrate it with the same bullet......remember for every force their is an equal and opposite force both going back inthe form of recoil and ahead of a projectile in a shock wave.....next time your at a pool take 2 identicle stones.....drop one in and throw the other in as hard as possible....guess which one hits bottom first?.....pure fluid dynamics.........ask any fluid dynamics engineer.......only saying...it defies simple logic until you understand the dynamics...........do YOUR due diligence and read Jarret's web site as he makes some good points...........

If you believe that, go ahead....it doesn't make sense to me but hey what do I know?

 

[Mike70560]

I am not sure what Abram tanks and rocks have to do with a discussion of penetration of bullets from hunting rifles, in particular large bore rifles.

In regards to due diligence I have done mine. When shooting solids the most important consideration is nose profile. The profile of the CEB and North Fork monolithic solids are just about perfect. You drive these bullets faster your penetration increases. I am sure there is some limit, but it is above what my Lott will drive a bullet. I slowed bullets down and penetration decreased. There is a 276 page thread with over 11,000 post on AR concerning terminal bullet performance. It includes testing just about every solid out there at a wide range of velocities. We did our due diligence, time and time again.

Are you refering to Jarret's site or Garret's site? Garret sells ammo, Jarret rifles. Assuming you meant Garret our test results were quite different. Unlike Garret, we are not trying to sell anything. We used the same setup, saturated newspaper. Our media was very consistent and we got very similar results testing bullets independently in different parts of the country.

As far as many cases of PHs requesting clients to load down a Weatherby?? That is the first time I ever heard of that. With cheap bullets, especially softs it would have merit. More than likely if it ever happened it was due to most people not handling the recoil of the 460.

Garret claims only 4 to 4 1/2 ft of penetration from a 500 grain 458 at 2100. Here is a video of a 500 grain 470 at around 2100 (Less SD, should be less penetration) shooting though 6 ft of saturated newspaper (same media as Garret) and stopping in plywood. My Lott at 2220 FPS will shoot through the back of the box easily.

Believe what you want, I have done my testing in test media and in the field on on big animals. You will never find me hunting buffalo or elephant with a 45-70. It will work, but there are much better cartridges out there regardless of what Garret is trying to sell.

 

[35bore]

Usually, I like to debate, I just not in the mood. Have a nice night and weekend.

You'll be back young Jedi,,,, you'll be back....:rofl:

However, I don't mind a good pissing contest/campfire argument.... It sounds like Mike and king are arguing but agree on the 458....:rofl: I chose the 458wm for ammo prices and availability I have tested and tested. I am happy with the results, and I am "CERTAIN" that there are better and more effective cartridges out there, but I am NOT a PH nor do I get to Africa every year (DAMNIT) but I am happy with my choice.... I think an argument can be made for any cartridge, pro's and con's, but ultimatly it come down to personal choice.

You go a problem with the 35 Whelen???? I like it, hence it's my choice.

 

[enysse]

Sometimes I need to step back, 35bore and not be so sarcastic. Sometimes when things are bothering me at home, it sets me off.

Thanks Mike, I agree with your post.

 

[Code4]

... which I hope will bring us back to the 9.3x62.

The reason it works, is that it is very hard to get out of 'the sweet spot' it has with either handloads or factory ammo. You just can't push the thing too fast.

I've had bonded 320grainers in the 9.3x62 tumble after slowing, post impact.
I've had the same brand bonded 160's penetrate deeper in a 7x57 than from a 7mmRem Mag.

Use a 286 RNSP of any construction you like in a 9.3x62 and you quite simply won't go wrong.

 

[spike.t]

Thanks, the ammo availability is not good. We need to have ocean shipments of ammo sent here...there is never enough. You know how we roll here in the USA, everyone stockpiles ammo and guns.
I loved RWS's website.

dont worry if i lived there i would be doing the same thing. when i am at sci i always visit a gunshop and depress myself looking at all the guns i cant buy , then i depress the owners by telling them i would probably buy most of their stock if i could, but cant!!

 

[enysse]

Code4, everything I have read about the 9.3x62 is that it's really accurate with a number of loads. It's not suppose to be finicky. I'm not sure what I'm going to do there are a few options. I could order some Core Lokt bullets from Remington for a reasonable price and reload the brass. Or option B, would be reload from scratch...buy dies, buy brass, buy some Barnes Triple Shock bullets. I'm not interested in loading it maximum pressure either, I have bigger calibers to use if I want to hammer something DRT. Who knows, I'll post pictures when I get the gun, I'm going to have some work done on the gun no matter what. I think the gun was originally a 9.3x57 changed over to a 9.3x62 so I want to check a few things out. There are no crossbolts so I'll have to check the stock to make sure it's bedded properly so it doesn't crack over time. I also want a different recoil pad too!

Spike.t, I feel your pain, I would think the same thing if I was in your shoes, we have it pretty good in the USA.

 

[Code4]

enysse,

I hate to drag a post out but ....

I've had a few negative experiences with pointed, bonded projectiles in the 9.3x62. These were traced by the manufacturer to a 'bad' batch and replacements offered. I have mates who have had spectacular success with the same projectile. I now use RNSP's on the largest soft skinned animals I can afford to hunt and have achieved nervana.

I believe a lot can be learnt from history. Before it gained popularity recently in the USA, the 9.3x62 had a rock solid reputation in the non english speaking world. This was achieved in Eastern Africa during the massive native animal de-populations carried out to clear grazing and farming land in the first half of this century. Probably everything from dik dik to elephant, but I assume the vast majority being medium size antelope in the waterbuck to zebra category. What projectile did they use ? I don't know, but I'll wager good money it was a SP and/or solid RN of conventional construction and not a premium.

A premium, bonded core projectile just adds more to what already works.

 

[enysse]

Thanks Code4, I like long posts .

The problem with European calibers in the USA is that sometimes, there is limited supply of bullet components. I too am avoiding the Barnes tipped triple shock in all my big bore guns, I have heard of feeding problems. I think I'll try the triple shocks, still worried they may not feed right in this old gun. Well see everything is a experiment.

But your point is well taken, round nose, soft points are deadly. They have probably killed a ton of animals.

 

[spike.t]

enyesse check out norma usa as well. the oryx bullet is good and they provide the components for reloading a lot of european calibres.

 

[enysse]

Thanks guys for the encouragement, I found some bullets last night that I think will work. You gotta love gun shops online!!! I found some Lapua bullets, that have good reviews, according to the Hodgen data the starting powder data is very similiar whether it's round nose or not, which sounds good to me. I'll try some Northfork too. This place has everything CEB, woodleigh...the works.

 

[bassasdaindia]

hi all,so what is the final decision regarding the opinion of the caliber 9.3x62 ?

 

[enysse]

Well the 9.3x62 is a great caliber, a lot history to it! It's best to reload in the USA, shortage of ammo selection...though the popular companies do load it, just slim selection.
Another great selection is the .35 Whelen in the USA, cheaper ammo and a lot of it!
You can't go wrong with either.