What are we doing?

[hunting]

Guys what are we busy doing, i am looking at some adds and i can not believe my eyes. Are we busy cutting our own wrist just to make a " deal " i am sorry but i can not compete with some of the " deals" i see. I am a hunter and i am proud of being a hunter and guide, i am not selling candy at a conner shop. I am not saying some of the incredible offers i see is not good ones, but then i look at some websites connected to these adds and then i can see why a guy are prepared to give away a hunt. This is what we are busy doing at the moment . I know we can do what we like and sell a hunt at what we want, but we are busy making a joke of what we have . We do have Africa let us sell Africa and not candy.
Lets put the being proudly South African back in our business.
Johan

 

[LouisB]

Hi Johan

I could not agree with you more.

What worries me is the way that people avoid posting info and simply fail to show any level of transparency, small changes in wording that I personally find misleading as well.

It would seem that this is becoming a game of how low can you go and that is fine but please keep in mind to cut costs you cut corners people can say what they want but there is a reason why you can’t sell a trophy hunt for $2000 and still provide the client with a good product.

Gentleman we can play this game all day long but I fear it will only lead to one thing unhappy clients and a rotten hunting industry simple as that. There will be no winners here and least of all the game populations!

Good luck to all!

Best Regards
Louis van Bergen

 

[hunting]

Thanks Louis i hope we get more guys backing my statement and the ones you make. Lets stand together in this.
Johan

 

[vgruan]

Hey Johann,

I am also with you on this one. I have just seen again that trying to do cheaper hunts never work in the first place. You pay for quality unfortunately.

Best regards,

Jacques

 

[Bushbuck]

I understand and hear what you guys are saying. On the other hand as a hunter I certainly can appreciate the great deals out there right now. It is not just Africa, there are deals for hunting all over the world. Outside of hunting this is a buyers market here for everything from TV's to real estate. I am in a few different businesses and they are all effected the same way. Some have lost 40 percent of the competition and the ones left are working on much lower margins. The fly by night outfits are gone and the quality of some services has actually improved IMO.

The strong will survive and be significantly stronger when and if things turn around. Like I said last year, this is not going to be a fast recovery. We are all doing what we have to do to weather the storm. Diversification is the best thing anyone can do during these times. Lean and mean and provide better service than anyone ever has in whatever industry you are in.

 

[shakari]

I appreciate I'm a bit of an old fart now and am more or less retired from the field but I think the whole business has changed over the years rather than just the 'cheap deals' situation.

I remember a time when guys used to come on longer hunts and they came to hunt properly and having done so, would put their trophies up in their homes when they arrived.

Nowadays, it's increasingly happening that guys come on shorter hunts and arrive with a shopping list of trophies they want and the sooner they get them, the better it is for them.

They want the same amount of trophies the guys were taking in the old days but they often want to take them in half the time...... and it's also becoming increasingly common for the trophies to go into their offices to impress people rather than the home for the pleasure of recollecting how much fun they had taking them.

That isn't meant to be a criticism of the hunting clients, more a criticism of the changing times...... but you know what...... we (as an industry) make it worse for ourselves by encouraging that attitude with all the cheap deals.

I appreciate there's always a lot of nowcomers with shiny new licences out there and that it's tough for them to get a reputation and that's often where these cheap deals come from but as has been said, a cheap deal inevitably has to mean cut corners.

Personally, I prefer to maintain high standards and if that means I get undercut on prices....... well, I guess that's just part of the business. Some people will realise that quality comes at a price and those that don't will probably never experience a really good quality product.

 

[enysse]

Personally, I prefer to maintain high standards and if that means I get undercut on prices....... well, I guess that's just part of the business. Some people will realise that quality comes at a price and those that don't will probably never experience a really good quality product.

Finer words couldn't have been spoken.

 

[Red Leg]

I do believe this industry is one of those where "value" derived is often directly related to investment in the product. And I suspect, those with means, will almost always opt for certainty in the quality of the hunting experience over a bargain for a bargain's sake. That said, and as Shakari so clearly points out, the industry is changing, and regrettably outfitters will have to change with it. All markets evolve, and I cannot tell you how many times I have observed companies, in many cases almost proudly, claim that they would not change with that market evolution. The vast majority are no longer in business. I sadly suspect that will be true in safari industry as well.

Telecommunications and reasonable air schedules to southern Africa are at the root of most of this change. I suspect many of us run businesses of one form or another, and most of us deal with the unfortunate reality that we are never really "off." Boards, senior managers, or investors all too often require personal response to querries or personal participation in critical meetings. That sort of pressure shortens vacations (or hunting expeditions) and has many of us checking email and making the occasional call. I would like nothing better than to take a thirty-day tented safari in East Africa. But even if I could afford it, my business at least, would not allow me the luxury of so many weeks away. And so we roll in for ten to fourteen days hoping to make the most of that all too short hunting experience (I also hasten to add that making the most of the experience is, for most hunters, not a function of trophy count)

The other hunter who is causing a significant change to the African safari industry - until at least the onset of the recession - is the middle class American hunter making a first or second PG hunt in lieu of a trip out west for elk, mule deer, or pronghorn. My sense is that these hunters largely fueled the expansion of game farm hunting in southern Africa. As the recession has taken hold, an international hunting trip was the first thing cut from budgets, and unfortunately, will be the last thing added back in as the economy recovers. Many of these hunters were and are very cost concience and many of you in the industry responded with various "packages" which appealed to that clientel. As their numbers have grown smaller, competition among outfitters has naturally increased.

I don't know what the African safari industry will look like in thirty years, but I am sure that it will look differently than it does today. We can lament the passing of the "old days" but to which old days should we point? The sixty-day safari with a hundred porters - the thirty-day motor car adventures of Hemingway or Ruark - the 21-day mixed bag safari - or the predictable, dependable 10-day package hunt for PG? In spite of bordering on curmudgeondom myself, I think we should try our best to look forward and to adapt the industry (and my expectations as a client) to the reality (and potential goodness) of those next thirty years rather than the last.

 

[seattlesetters]

Well said, Red Leg. Much truth resides in your post.

I always say, "The only thing we know for certain is that change is coming. We can either be ready for it, adapt to it and accept it, or prepare ourselves to die by its sword."

This applies to my own industry (telecommunications) in an almost biblical way. It would seem it applies to the safari industry, as well.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

This is an old post, but it fits what I am thinking about, so I will attempt to resuscitate it rather than repost. Firstly, i am no expert in animal population control, nor conservation, I just read stuff. And what I am gleaning more and more is that elephant populations must be controlled. It is simple - finite area, finite trees and food, but expanding population equals an equilibrium point in carrying capacity, no rocket science required there. Over-tip, inevitable disaster and it is happening in many parks right now.
Could sport hunting take enough animals to make a difference? Again, everything I read says no, and why is that? This thread began with the discussion upon safari operators voicing their concern about budget elephant hunts, and looking at some prices being currently offered, an elephant is not outrageously costly, and cow, or tuskless are downright cheap. So can it then be argued that price is that big an excluder? I think that is not the case.
Then there is legislative or control restriction, and that gets tied up in chewing gum until the pendulum swings so far to the side of habitat destruction that there just has to be action, as with Botswana lifting restrictions. But prices there are still very high for now.
Then the third category, and now I am going to get into trouble - hunter reluctance. I have to tell you I love elephants, never shot one, but seen and interacted with plenty. I can totally empathise with the folks who just don't want to kill these magnificent beasts, but even I am starting to think about an ele hunt. Consider the alternatives of a slow decline, starvation, lack of funding for supplemental or relocation efforts. Honestly, there is no more ethical, noble and worthwhile a death for an elephant than at the hands of a hunter. I will probably cry when I shoot mine some day, but it will end well.
Ok, lets be clear, 'reluctance' doesn't apply to the majority of the hunters on our forum, so maybe a better way to reference the wider potential Africa hunting group would be to make them aware that an elephant hunt is not only more reasonable than they thought, but a noble animal choice. The return for their money and effort would not just be a great Africa experience, but probably a part in the only thing that can ensure our beautiful elephants are still here for the future.

 

[Philip Glass]

I appreciate I'm a bit of an old fart now and am more or less retired from the field but I think the whole business has changed over the years rather than just the 'cheap deals' situation.

I remember a time when guys used to come on longer hunts and they came to hunt properly and having done so, would put their trophies up in their homes when they arrived.

Nowadays, it's increasingly happening that guys come on shorter hunts and arrive with a shopping list of trophies they want and the sooner they get them, the better it is for them.

They want the same amount of trophies the guys were taking in the old days but they often want to take them in half the time...... and it's also becoming increasingly common for the trophies to go into their offices to impress people rather than the home for the pleasure of recollecting how much fun they had taking them.

That isn't meant to be a criticism of the hunting clients, more a criticism of the changing times...... but you know what...... we (as an industry) make it worse for ourselves by encouraging that attitude with all the cheap deals.

I appreciate there's always a lot of nowcomers with shiny new licences out there and that it's tough for them to get a reputation and that's often where these cheap deals come from but as has been said, a cheap deal inevitably has to mean cut corners.

Personally, I prefer to maintain high standards and if that means I get undercut on prices....... well, I guess that's just part of the business. Some people will realise that quality comes at a price and those that don't will probably never experience a really good quality product.

I agree with what you are saying here about some hunters these days. There is nothing that bugs me more than to be telling a story of hard earned trophies where you walk all day in places like Zim and Caprivi or even Cameroon meanwhile the person buts in and relates how they shot 20 some odd animals in a week on some game farm. You only do that by shooting everything from the truck as quickly as possible.
Back to the topic: the market is what it is. I can’t believe the African governments followed our political stupidity on his bug and shut down their economies, starving their people. There will always be people who only want the cheapest hunts and we can’t change that.
Philip

 

[Mike Van Horn]

When l started reading this l didn't realize it was from 2011. Amazing how it fits with today 2020. Reading Red Leg's description of the 2 types of clients l realized l fall right between the 2. Recently retired and starting a small business. When l take a break the whole crew takes a break. Also when things shut down the first to go is a expensive hunting trip, until it picks up again.
As far as people giving deals on hunts, l come from the construction industry. As always when times are slow contractors may go in and buy a job as we called it just to keep employees working, showing no profit on the project. With talking with friends still in construction now they tell me they are bidding anything they can. Small projects 10-12 million where there is normally 2-4 contractors bidding now there are 10-12 bidding the job. I can only imagine it's the same with Safari outfits right now.
Unfortunately the client will see this and say l know now that l can get this for Y amount and will no long pay the X amount. I think it will be awhile before everyone truly recovers from today's situation