Hunting Cape Buffalo at Night

[Wheels]

Walkingprey,

This couldn't have been an easy topic to make public.

Thanks for sharing it for the education and benefit of all of us.

All the best.

 

[gordon-kruger]

1.Sorry to hear this situation, but turn it back or forward you are the person that pull the trigger not the PH, and if you are experience enough to take a most difficult frontal chest shot on a buffalo I do not understand why you miss it totally ?? Why not wait until you have a broadside shot ? I mean if they was feeding on a alpha/alpha pivot sowing they use to stay for a hour and feeding, so therefore why hurry with a frontal shot ! Also the most important thing is to talk to the PH what you want and how do you prefer the hunting, you are the one that pay and therefore you decide.

2. On a farm like this you can always find a wounded buffalo, with a couple of good dogs, the problems come only if its to large herds, and the tracks is cover with 50-100 buffalo that split the group and moving in different direction in panic, but on fenced areas you normally do not have this problem.

I think its a possibility when they see that you miss the buffalo, someone arrange 2-3 blood drops in the darkness... I know some guides that will probably gladly cut the finger for a couple of drops of blood to charge 12.000 dollars in trophy fees !

Something is very wrong here, you do not write your own name WALKINGPRAY2 in this story, therefore I don't know if you perhaps only like to damage some PH's reputation, or if the story is correct than its something very wrong ! On a farmed game unit you will ALWAYS find a wounded buffalo !

Gordon

 

[Christina Nyczepir]

Gordon.....please read the thread completely through before commenting. And my name is Christina Nyczepir. I believe you can see it if you go to my profile. The name I chose for my site is taken from a book written by someone I know personally with regard to educating others on the issue of human trafficking (an issue dear to my heart). The book had just been published a day or so before I created my account on AH and so I chose the title.

"He who gives an answer before he hears, it is folly and shame to him."

 

[Buff-Buster]

Walkingprey2 - First off I am sorry that you are going thru all of this fiasco. Hindsight is always 20-20 they say. In my opinion, your PH was entirely wrong on multiple counts. He not only put you in an unethical situation (and possibly illegal situation) but a un-necessarily dangerous situation. I totally understand your reaction to the situations. We all rely on our PH's to "do the right thing". After all, we are in a foreign country hunting game we are not familiar with in most cases. As you mentioned previously, we tend to rely to heavily on the PH. We all should study the game laws for the country and species we are intending to hunt. Don't we all know them in our home areas? Sure we do. This post brings up this issue that I haven't seen addressed. 99% of the time in Africa, you will be with an ethical, law abiding PH. That shouldn't stop future safari go'ers from educating themselves enough to know when they are not with one of the 99%. I hope one day you will be able to experience a proper buffalo hunt. Once that happens you will not dwell on the bad one you are suffering thru any longer.

P.S. - This is not limited to Africa. I have had guided hunts in Alberta and Oklahoma that the outfitters tried the entire trip to get me to do things illegally to get my deer. Both trips I returned home without deer but with my integrity.

 

[gordon-kruger]

Yes, I carefully read your story from the start to the end, that's why I react. And I'm glade you step forward with your name.

Christina I'm a PH with a long experience, and I can tell you that I will never ever let any client take a frontal "daylight" shot on a buffalo unless its wounded or at 30 meter with a good rest, but then I rely want to know that the client can shoot well ! There is not any information what the distance was to the buffalo, or why did you take that shot, if you are a inexperience hunter perhaps this can happen, but WHY you go for buffalo then ? You know how it is when you have hunting Africa 2-3 times and with wildebeest/eland/ and other larger PG on your wall - then its time to gear up for buffalo. So do not cry for this mistake, its yours and you was pull the trigger. And when you did not hit what you was aiming for you get tricked I think ! More shooting training and confident with the rifle and you can decide with comfort and experience to take a shot or not, simply like that.

And I have never lost a Buffalo during my 35 years work !

 

[jeff]

Gordon- Kruger thanks for giving a PHs input. The lady asked if it was legal to hunt buff at night and you did not respond to that, also what are your opinons as to the ethics of it.

 

[ActionBob]

I think a lot of understanding is necessary here on all sides. I suspect Christina is reflecting over and over on what happened. If she was not wanting things done correctly and ethically, she would not have brought it up on a public forum. I'm sure it is tearing at her in many directions. I for one cannot condemn nor condone but I can try to understand and learn. And not really knowing her but in my communication with this lady in the past leads me to believe that first off she is a Lady, and one with very refined ethics, and one who wants to get results but is willing to put in effort to attain them. Until proven otherwise, I will continue to assume she is a fine example of an ethical hunter.

And I know it is really difficult to put yourself in the spot of someone else and to put yourself into the moment in the past when something happened, especially something as deliberate and unchangeable as pulling a trigger. But you can try to see all sides and be understanding. And in my dealings with people from other cultures, I know first hand that communication, ethics, etc. can all be a bit fluid and are much more involved than words. There can be understanding of words, but understanding of intent of those words can be completely different. And then add in cultural differences and the fact that body language still comprises more of human communication than words, and it can be really challenging at times to have everyone on the same page with you. So even though it looks like the PH in question should be condemned, I do not want to throw the first stone at him either without knowing all the circumstances and his side of the story... It would be great to her it if it could be presented in a professional manner.

My American sensibilities may be at first put off by Gordon's initial comments, but realizing he is from a different culture than mine, and possibly a bit of a gruff and to the point fellow who spends a lot of time in the bush. And that he may not be using his first language in these responses, I need to be considerate of his thoughts as well and that he seems be trying to point out both sides... He does give us all a warning about that 1% unscrupulous people in the industry.

 

[enysse]

I'm not condemning Christina. She has been very nice on the forum, we don't get many women on here.

I do agree with Gordon's view that a frontal shot on a Cape buffalo is not reçommended on a first shoot. High opportunity for error, it takes nerves of steel, and a well placed shot to take him down with that shot.

Still in 5 days it should have been tracked down and killed? Not blaming Christina here.

 

[BRICKBURN]

……….. So do not cry for this mistake, its yours and you was pull the trigger.

This is the ultimate fact.
The individual pulling the trigger is responsible for the result.
Christina took responsibility, wanted to follow up and in the end paid the trophy fee.

……... More … …….comfort and experience to take a shot or not, simply like that.
…………..

To take a shot or NOT. It is a huge decision.
Even if you are not conscious of the pressure, it is there: Excitement, Short durations, once in a life time trips, last light coming, days of tracking, etc.

Before my first trip I learned from a similar personal lesson previously posted here on AH. It had never entered my mind that a PH would suggest anything less than a reasonable shot.
That lesson reinforced me to be prepared to refuse a shot or animal, if I were at all uncomfortable. It also motivated me to take the PH course and ensure that I knew what I was looking at.
Asserting yourself is still tough to do in a novel situation where you are being led by a professional. As Gordon suggests, after a few trips we would all fell more comfortable.

We'll all learn from this.

 

[tarbe]

We'll all learn from this.

I am very grateful to Christina for starting this thread, and for the experienced folks who have put their $0.02 in.

It has definitely made me aware of some things I really need to get set in my mind...such as being willing to say no, when the PH says yes.

As a first-timer, I keep reminding myself to wait on the PH...don't do anything without his go-ahead. Yet, I must still be able to say no when he says yes. I must make the final decision for myself, once he has given the green light.

Very valuable discussion for one who has never hunted with a PH before.


Tim

 

[gordon-kruger]

Jeff, buffalo should only be hunted during daylight and defiantly not with a infrared spotlight. Its simply bad taste, and I do not understand how any hunter can later on with proud look at that trophy on the wall when it's taken under "poaching conditions". Also, I always see how the clients handle the rifle at the first day target test shooting, how he/she load the rifle and how long time he/she need to be prepared before take the shot, its easy to spot some small details for example more experience hunters do not even look at the rifle when maneuvering the safety, or how the bolt is lifted. When I see this I know what condition and distance I later on will let the client shoot at.

Beste groete, Gordon

 

[Velo Dog]

Gordon.....please read the thread completely through before commenting. And my name is Christina Nyczepir. I believe you can see it if you go to my profile. The name I chose for my site is taken from a book written by someone I know personally with regard to educating others on the issue of human trafficking (an issue dear to my heart). The book had just been published a day or so before I created my account on AH and so I chose the title.

"He who gives an answer before he hears, it is folly and shame to him."

WALKINGPREY2,

Don't let the nay-sayers get you down.
You went hunting, you made your choices, you fired your shots, at the end of the day, the animal was not recovered hooves-up as planned.

From what you wrote, it is very clear that nobody needs to draw you a picture of what could have been done differently.
Your are already fully aware of all that, obviously.

So, just in case there was something you did not already think of, you brought it up for discussion with a semi-tough crowd.
And, you even threw yourself onto your own sword but, one or two people still seem to want you burned at the stake for some reason. ("She turned me into a newt" !)
What accomplished hunter in the world has never lost one single wounded animal in their lifetime?

You did more than most would have done under these circumstances (brought it up for discussion in a public forum).
Most if not all hunters with very many animals to their credit, (including myself) have wounded and lost an animal, at one time or another, on one continent or another.
Most of us enjoy your posts, keep them rolling in now and then.

Kind Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[billc]

Gordon kruger Funny how some Ph think it is never there fault only ever the clients.She listen to her ph but it is still her fault or if she did not take the shot the ph would tell her it her fault she did not get the buff.You trust the ph to tell you the right think to do and I think she was told wrong to take a chance at night.I am betting they made her feel very uncomfortable and were pushing for her to take the chance.We all hope we make the right choice but it makes it harder when you have someone else who you trust telling you to go ahead.I think the whole thing seems like it was bad all around and not the hunt she was planning on.

 

[ROCKET]

Agree on some things with Gordon.......profesional, realizes the most or less experienced hunter just seeing how he handles his rifle in the field ...... that way the professional can assume in advance what kind of hunter he will guide.......I put many attencion in those tips before go to the bushes and start the hunt with the client.

What I find unacceptable is that a professional decides to go to hunt a buffalo with a client in a poor light condition, shining a little flashlight and allowing a frontal shot as first and then limit the search for the wounded animal one day having more days .
All this is no doubt a chain of mistakes.

Then I say ....... what kind of professional is that ......?

Thanks for share this Christina.

 

[CarrieZylka]

I find this post to be extremely inconsistent.

First off, your story doesn’t exactly add up as a few commenters have pointed out.

Second of all, you state the PH did nothing wrong, everything was done legally and your anger stems from what YOU feel was inadequate follow up even though it sounds like they followed proper protocol. And then you go on to put the name out there so that “people can avoid having a similar experience”.

Thirdly, YOU made the bad shot, not once but TWICE!

No one held a gun to your head, no one made you pull the trigger, if you’ve been on as many hunts as you claim you would be a seasoned hunter who would know that if it feels wrong you NEVER TAKE THE SHOT.

That’s hunting 101.

Furthermore, a simple Google search answered your question, I find it extremely distasteful that you would post this question in a public forum in what seems like an thinly veiled excuse to vent about this outfitter - if all you cared about was an actual answer to your question you wouldn't have mentioned names.

Perhaps your name should be blasted on forums as a client outfitters should avoid instead of the other way around.

 

[billc]

Funny how someone who joined today has so much to say.I just wonder if there is any ties to maybe someone who helped plan the all girl hunt.I am glad she said who did what.I think she said in the end it was herself who pulled the trigger.I for one am glad she said what she has.For me personally I would want no part of any PH or company who said hunting buff at night is ok.Having fault is one thing having a ph whos standards seem to be only about taking animals at any cost well that has some faults all of its own.Taking the shot and making a bad shot happens if you hunt alot. Paying the buff fee and owning the mistake is all she had to do.She has done all of that how about the PH owning up to his mistake.Though I doubt we will ever hear from him as he knows he made the biggest mistake of all in the sad story we have read here.

 

[Christina Nyczepir]

Carrie, I posted the initial question on this forum while I was still in Africa. It was in desperation to find out an answer. I was contacted by people close to the Starr & Bodill Outfitter and told that the hunt was not handled properly because it was done at night. And that it was illegal in certain areas of South Africa. I was told this around Tuesday of this past week. I immediately sought to find out the truth through messaging personal African agent friends of mine. They could not give me a definite answer. I posted the question on my Facebook page without using names. I was told that it was illegal (which I now know for the landowner, also an outfitter, is not true) and that if I took hold of any of the trophy that I could be guilty of violating the Lacey Act. I was told this by several PHs who responded on that post. He does because he showed me. As I have stated earlier in this thread. The only PH I take issue with is Louie Bodill who was assigned to me. Not the landowner/PH....because I was never his client. I feel Louie did not do everything possible to help me to recover the buff. I asked him repeatedly to take me back out to hunt the buff and was put off. You were not there. Nor were any of the ladies when I spoke to him about it. I take no issue with his partners or the outfit as a whole.

Someone contacted PHASA concerning the hunt. I did not nor did I ever have any intention of doing so. This same person then messaged me and told me to contact Adri Kristoff immediately, that she was waiting for my call. We spoke very briefly. I simply asked her if hunting a buff at dusk was illegal and if I would be guilty of violating this Lacey Act if I received any portion of the trophy. She stated "no" if the landowner had the proper certifications. I had nothing to do with this person contacting Adri.

This forum is also an opportunity for people to share their personal experiences with an outfitter. Positive and negative. As I stated my initial two hunts with Louie were well handled and positive experiences. As I have also stated.....I take full responsibility for having pulled the trigger on the buff. My second shot was a follow-up. I thought there was no way I could have missed the animal the first time. As I have also stated in this thread. I have paid the outfitter in full for the buff hunt. I share this experience in hope that others will not make the same mistake as I have and rush the shot for whatever reasons. And to be advised to think twice if encouraged to hunt a buff at night as I was.

We must also note to those reading this thread.....that you are a personal friend of the outfitter. I can understand your wanting to protect you friend. If there is confusion in my writing this post, I apologize. I have all messages concerning what I was told about the hunt and the comments from my posts to support what I have written here.

 

[CarrieZylka]

We must also note to those reading this thread.....that you are a personal friend of the outfitter. I can understand your wanting to protect you friend. If there is confusion in my writing this post, I apologize. I have all messages concerning what I was told about the hunt and the comments from my posts to support what I have written here.

I wholeheartedly admit I am a friend of the owner (if I was trying to hide it I wouldn't have used my real name) - and that is why the whole thread made me angry. You're insinuating that a well respected outfitter (who I am assuming was your friend as well) in essence forced you to take the shot. I also found what you stated as to how long after the event you were leaving to be inconsistent. One minute you were leaving the next day, the next minute you had 5 days before you were leaving - it may have been in the way it was written/or read.

Your posting makes it seem as if the outfitter did anything wrong which they did not, we all have had terrible experiences with outfitters (I've had my share) but there are always two sides to every story.

You could have asked the question and not stated any names if all you were really after was a simple answer to your question.

 

[billc]

I would guess carrie since your friends of the owner/ph/outfitter you will still hunt with them and some of your friends as well.The report has not changed your mind and thats ok.But she has done all of us a favor by doing the post.Both partys have some fault no doubt.But any ph/outfitter who things hunting buff like this is ok and makes for a good buff.Well most of us want to know because they will be off the list of must people to hunt with them.I am sure they have done hundreds of hunts that went well but this was way bad.
Since you are posting and taking up there side the problem must be known by them also.Why dont they make a post telling there side if what she is saying is so wrong.I wont hold my breathe on that as they have some dirty hands in this mess.

 

[jeff]

Walkingprey thanks for posting there is a lot of good info on this thread!