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RECOIL!

This is a discussion on RECOIL! within the Firearms & Ammunition forums, part of the HUNTING EQUIPMENT, FIREARMS & AMMUNITION category; Monish: I've shot both the .460 and the .470. The .460 Weatherb's recoil to me was much worse, and entirely ...

  1. #21
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    Monish: I've shot both the .460 and the .470. The .460 Weatherb's recoil to me was much worse, and entirely unbearable without its muzzle brake.

    Big5: You indeed are fortunate.

    Bill Quimby

  2. #22
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    Bill,

    Yes the .460 does have a wallop , more than the 470 could be because of being a breech loader but 460 is fun to fire has a OOOOMPH !!! to it , may be the shoulders now ,are use to it .

    Happy Hunting Bill !!!

    Monish
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarineHawk View Post
    The recoil energy for two rifles of equal weight in different calibers will vary roughly proportionally to the square of the momentum of the bullet. The equal, but opposite reations are momentum--momentum is conserved. Thus Mass x Velocity of the exiting bullet/gas = Mass x Velocity of the recoiling rifle. Since the rifle weight is constant, the higher the M x V of the exiting bullet/gas--the higher the recoiling velocity of the rifle. Recoil enegergy is proportional to the mass of the rifle but also proportional to the square of its rearward velocity. Thus, the recoil energy will increase roughly proportional to the square of the momentum of the exiting bullet/gas.

    Thus, it's not the energy but the momentum that produces recoil energy. The square of the momentum is M-squared x V-squared. The energy of the bullet is 1/2 x M x V-squared. Thus, when you have two bullets (one big and slow and one small and fast) that produce equal energy, the lighter/faster bullet will have less momentum and thus will cause less recoil energy than the heavy/slow one if rifle weight is constant.

    Thuys, a 30-06 ought to recoil more than a 270 Win--even though the 270 produces a little more energy.

    A 45-70 standard load recoils more than a 25-06 even though they produce about the same energy.

    Of course, many think the smaller/faster bullets recoil a little more than the formulas above predict because they think the recoil happens in a more compressed time frame. I'm always a little skeptical of that because I find most 12ga slugs recoil worse than my 340 Wby. But that's just annecdotal.
    I stand corrected.

  4. #24
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    Just numbers to me...recoil is a personal or relitive thing, the numbers are cold and have little bareing on reality of "felt recoil"...You have stock fit, barrel length, weight of the rifle and other things, and most important is some folks simply handle recoil better than others..I have been shooting big bores my whole life and thats a lot of years..I can shoot any big bore but anything over a 458 Win. or 416 Rem I have to talk to myself before I pull the trigger..I can shoot a .416 Rem, 404 or even a 458 Win as easy as I can shoot a 22 L.R. The .458 Lott and up make me jump out of my skin on ocassion.
    RAY ATKINSON

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    I've only ever found recoil to be an issue off the bench, working up new loads. I'm not one to alter a load once I have the performance I need. If it groups well and the velocity is what it needs to be, then I go hunting. I have been out to my favourite rabbit patch not to far from home with the 450 Ackley and I have chased plenty of pigs with it. If the practice is hunting - field positions, field conditions and occasional shooting, I find that I don't even notice the recoil. A barrage of shots off the bench is not a huge necessity for me.

    On the same note as Ray's comment above regarding "felt recoil" - I feel the kick out of my featherweight .308 Win a lot more than my .300WBY sporter with it's super recoil pad; but it is a lot louder!

  6. #26
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    Schembridan,

    The practice makes it perfect , initially when young I did think of the dreaded recoil and use to get pulverized hard since was never a bench shooter, but slowly got the recoil thought out of the pshyce and it felt like a 22 going off the shoulder.and I did overcome my trepidation this way and still shoot quite straight with any caliber bestowed to me.
    Hope I am correct !! This has been my perception in taking on to the big bores.

    Monish
    ITS NOT THE RIFLE BUT THE MAN BEHIND THE RIFLE

  7. #27
    MarineHawk is online now AH Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Atkinson View Post
    Just numbers to me...recoil is a personal or relitive thing, the numbers are cold and have little bareing on reality of "felt recoil"...You have stock fit, barrel length, weight of the rifle and other things, and most important is some folks simply handle recoil better than others..I have been shooting big bores my whole life and thats a lot of years..I can shoot any big bore but anything over a 458 Win. or 416 Rem I have to talk to myself before I pull the trigger..I can shoot a .416 Rem, 404 or even a 458 Win as easy as I can shoot a 22 L.R. The .458 Lott and up make me jump out of my skin on ocassion.
    It does have the most direct bearing of all things, and other factors can also be very important.

    Each of the ".458 Lott and up" rifles produce more momentum (and in normal rifle choices, more recoil energy) than each of the .22LR - .458 Win rifles you shoot just like they are all the same. That's not a coincidence. Is it? That you don't like shooting rifles that produce a recoil-energy above that produced by a .458 Win? It sounds like you have a wide range of tolerable recoil. And, of course, the stock fitment, size and shope of person, etc... all have an effect. But they all help determine whether the person can absorb X amount of recoil energy, which is one of those evil "numbers" people love to mock. Your body weight divided by the surface area of the bottom of your shoes, is just a "number," but it will tell how quickly you tend sink into mud releative to someone else with different weight and shoe size. Numbers (such as recoil energy) do matter--as do other things..

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    Yes I agree that if you have all of your ducks in a row, namely proper stock fit, etc. etc. numbers do matter and there is of course appropriate energy generated rearward with any given projectile weight and it's velocity. However, learned shooting technique is very important, as is conditioning both your body and your mind.

    I find that mentally..............far too many men are pussies when it comes to their mental abilities to push themselves to adapt to things. They feel pain and can't learn to deal with it.
    They are soft physically and mentally because it is not PC to force kids to do anything and they grow up into adults that have not had to learn to put up with discomfort. The exceptions to this are people who have suffered with painful illnesses at some point and learned to live with pain or the few who have parents that actually spend a little time training Jack and Jill from a young age to put out a little effort and that help to instill the 'you can do it' attitude.

    Most hunters are unwilling to take the time required to learn to do things the right way. You can train yourself to handle heavier 'kicking' rifles. Just like you can learn to mentally motivate yourself to climb that last ridge to kill that mountain goat, even though your legs and lungs are screaming for relief.

    Far too many over the last 20 years will call it quits and say they are unable to climb that last ridge. Far too many show up for a hunt with new rifles they are not familiar with and can't handle................and far too many just can't be bothered to put a little effort into anything. It is not just hunters, it is our society today. And when it is too tough and we just do not have the gumption to force ourselves to do it, we look for gadgets too make it easier and we look for quicker and less physically demanding ways to get to the top of that ridge.

  9. #29
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    Hi fellow hunters. Today I have done something I never done before, I bought a new rifle because it was absolutely beautiful. Never ever used and when previous owner died a few years back, rifle ended up i'n a wearehouse, got dropped somewhere on the way and stock was cracked. New stock is now made from one of the best stock-maker i'n Germany, and within short, stock will be meeting barrel... Just seen rfle without stock and only pictures of stock, but immediately got hooked. Still can't understand the feeling. Will send i'n a picture as soon as rifle is brought home.
    Almost forgot.... Rifle is a Brno custom 416 Ribgy. Will be exiting to feel if there is any diff i'n recoil compered to my Sako HH375.

  10. #30
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    I think that there are two diferent recoils, one is more a push and another is more a punch.
    Example: 300WMag has a recoil factor 377 and 9,3x62 has 418, although 9,3x62 is bigger, in my opinion is more comfortable. Magnum calibers has a punch and not magnum has a push. I am not sure if you know what I mean, for me is a bit difficult explain it in English (I am Spanish)

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    I agree, recoil is something one has to learn how to deal with. I have found that a synthetic stock has a lot less recoil felt than the pretty wood stock. If you don't believe me I'll put the wood stock back on my model 70 - 30/06 and it hurts like heck after 3 or 4 shots. With the synthetic stock you can shoot all day with it using 150 or 180 gr loads. The same with my 375 H&H. I'm not convinced that those charts & statistics on the felt recoil is correct!!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsok View Post
    I think that there are two diferent recoils, one is more a push and another is more a punch.
    Example: 300WMag has a recoil factor 377 and 9,3x62 has 418, although 9,3x62 is bigger, in my opinion is more comfortable. Magnum calibers has a punch and not magnum has a push. I am not sure if you know what I mean, for me is a bit difficult explain it in English (I am Spanish)
    My compatriot has a point there. From my experience with the 338WM and the 375HH, I find that the 338WM kicks sharply, and the 375HH, which produces more energy, gives a big shove, but is gentler on the shoulder.
    This at least is what my 76 Kg of bodyweight feel.

  13. #33
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    I love these debates about recoil. Recoil energy is recoil energy. Many factors will influence how the recoil FEELS to individual shooters but the numbers dont change. It depends on weight of the gun, the specific loading, recoil pads, shooter position and lots of other factors. I have a .338 Win and a .375 H&H that weigh about the same. There is no question to me that the .375 kicks considerably more than the .338, but thats my guns as perceived by me. Its too subjective to make blanket statements about it. I have heard smaller men state that because of their slighter stature that heavy recoiling rifles hurt their shoulder more than larger shooters. This is a fallacy of course as the heavier shooter offers more resistance to the recoil and thus his shoulder will feel more than the lighter shooter whose body is more readily moved rearward thus lessening the impact on the shoulder. Like much in life, "it all depends".

  14. #34
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    I've done a fair bit of hunting with a 375h&h, and recoil never bothered me, yet breaking in my 30-06 and setting up the scope left me with a blue shoulder. 20 rounds.
    The biggest problem was that the bench was too low, so the rifle butt didn't sit nicely in my shoulder. The small contact area meant that I kept taking the punch in a concentrated spot.
    Round 2 saw me use some better technique from the start, and a better set-up and 20 rounds were bearable.
    I have however ordered a limbsaver pad, to save myself some tears while I develop some 200gr hunting rounds.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelhh375 View Post
    Almost forgot.... Rifle is a Brno custom 416 Rigby. Will be exiting to feel if there is any diff i'n recoil compered to my Sako HH375.
    Got my new 416 Rigby.... Had a few shots.... Yepp, HUGE difference in recoil. Tested with 416 Rigby Full metal Jacket 450 grain ( 5561 joules at 50 m ) and the the IMPALA RN 350 grain ( 6300 joules at 50 m ) Between these bullets I prefer IMPALA, felt more controlled recoil... but as always, there are different feelings...

    Much higher, but also more "slow" push. Not painful, just more feeling of much more power...

    In August back to Mozambique for Buffalo, and my first hunt with 416 Rigby.

  16. #36
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    I can shoot well with everything up too a .30-06 180. So that means I can handle roughly 250 recoil factor points. I guess that ain't too bad considering how young I am! Over the past 3 years I have gone from shooting a .243 Win effectively, to shooting the .270 and .30-06 effectively. Hopefully, by age 18 (4 years away) I will have built up my recoil tolerance even further.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Snyder View Post
    I can shoot well with everything up too a .30-06 180. So that means I can handle roughly 250 recoil factor points. I guess that ain't too bad considering how young I am! Over the past 3 years I have gone from shooting a .243 Win effectively, to shooting the .270 and .30-06 effectively. Hopefully, by age 18 (4 years away) I will have built up my recoil tolerance even further.
    Thats a good way of looking at it. Also remember that hunting game that requires a high recioling rifle does not require alot of shooting, if you can comfortably fire 2-3 shots that is plenty. If you find you are always recoil sensitive there are options - High quality recoil pad, mercury recoil dampeners and the dreaded muzzle brake (although muzzle brakes cause some people to flinch too because the noise and concussion suprises them).

    My .338 Lapua could tenderize my shoulder enough after only 3 shots that I knew a flinch was inevitable. I replaced the factory recoil pad with a Pachmyer decelerator pad and now 20 shots will not tempt me to flinch, even so I try to limit my sessions with it. There is no shame in that.
    The journey is the reward.

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    Hey Mike,

    Moving all the complicated high level math aside, where is my beloved, tried and true Ruger 375? Would love to see the Ruger and the HH 375 side-by-side. I own both and I'm here to say the the Ruger has far more recoil punch then the HH throwing 300 grainers.
    Safe Adventuring!
    Gregf

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    Its gonna have more to do with stock design, stock material, rifle weight etc. The two rounds are so close together in power that as the great Jack O'Connoer once said, " only a guru of heightened awareness could tell the difference between them" in recoil. Or anything else for that matter, two peas in a pod.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregf View Post
    Hey Mike,

    Moving all the complicated high level math aside, where is my beloved, tried and true Ruger 375? Would love to see the Ruger and the HH 375 side-by-side. I own both and I'm here to say the the Ruger has far more recoil punch then the HH throwing 300 grainers.
    Safe Adventuring!
    Gregf
    Hi Greg. Have to agree with "sestoppelman". BTW, have you tried IMPALA bullets yet ? You will be surprised, much higher power then "old" bullets, but 20-30% less recoil !

    Back in Africa within 10 weeks !

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