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Used to be the Nosler Partition was near the top of the heap for designer bullets. Slowly, I hear them suggested less and less for big game hunting. For awhile you would read reports about Partitions losing their front portion and not penetrating as well as in the old days. Now it’s all about Barnes coppers slugs that occasionally act as solids and don’t expand at all. I like leaded bullets but want 95% weight retention. What say you?
Greetings
To put things in perspective the partition bullet is 1940's tech. there are much better bullets outthere now. accubonds woodlieghs and yes tsx's just to many to name here but remeber that today bullet failure is very uncommon.Todays bullets are incredible compared to 1940's tech. Do you handload? If you do your choices are very broad for a leaded bullet that retains 90%+ weight. What caliber do you perfer?
Bart
I have had tremendous luck with Nosler Partitions. Even if they lose all of the front portion in front of the partition, you still have 66 percent of the bullet weight behind the partition, PLUS the expansion of the front part creates large shock wave and transmits energy to the animal.
Solid copper slugs that zip right through with little expansion waste a whole bunch of their energy on the air behind an animal and leave tiny little holes.
I have shot 180 grain Noslers clean through both shoulders of Gemsbok with my .300 wby at close to 200 yards, clean through both shoulders of big northern whitetail bucks with my '06 and on a 5x5 Elk had one end up as a lump on the hide on the far side. On that elk, the front portion was gone completely, but the remaining bullet weighed 111 grains...and that bullet dumped every single one of the 2000+ ft/lbs of energy inside that elks chest and he dropped after running 50 feet. I didn't need to worry about the "lack of a blood trail to track the elk because their was no exit wound" because he was stone dead almost where he stood. I will take that over a weak blood trail from a bullet that exited and hardly expanded that you need to follow to try and find the elk.
There are newer bullets that penentrate better but that doesn't mean they KILL better than a Nosler partition.
The COMBINATION of penetration AND expansion that you get with the Nosler Partion is more lethal than bullet that penentrate clean through with little expansion or bullets that expand a bunch but don't hold together nor penetrate very deep.
I do like Trophy Bonded Bearclaws on tough animals and was really bummed when Federal bought them since I don't think they sell them as components anymore, just in their ammo.
I keep trying every new whiz bang bullet out there but then I keep coming back to the Nosler Partition. I think the bullet that is closest to it in my book is the clone...the Swift A Frame. It might even be a little better.
It's the 'new best thing on the block' marketing that may have reduced the Partitions popularity (but not it's effectiveness).
AmenQuote:
Originally Posted by Code4
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Nosler Partition! Their name evokes a higher price tag...that's my main problem with them.....it's definitely not performance.
My biggest problem with Nosler Partitions is getting a respectable group. Probably not the fairest comment since I don't hand load (yet) and all I use is Federal factory ammo, but I've given up on partitions. I started my boys with a .223, and Federal offered factory loaded 60 grain partitions. We could get sub-MOA out of their 55 grain TBBC and the 64 grain soft point, but we couldn’t get a 4” group at 100 yards with the partitions. I had an almost identical experience with my first .300 Win Mag. Terrible groups with a partition, but MOA groups with TBBC (all Federal factory stuff). Same with my first rifle (.270, no longer around). A few years ago I got a 6.8 SPC and a .308 for the boys, and I tried a few different bullets to see what the .308 would shoot best. Once again, the partition was all over the paper, but both guns will shoot sub-MOA with TSX.
For me it was 4 failed attempts in a row (slow learner). I refuse to try it anymore. Obviously other people have had very good results with it, and I guess if I hand loaded I might have been able to tighten the groups. While it’s not necessarily the most popular bullet in this thread, all I use now in my bolt action rifles (all calibers from 6.8 SPC thru .375 H&H) are TSX. In the few bullets I have recovered, all have had the classic 4-pedal expansion. Most have not been recovered. Maybe they didn’t expand, but the animals have all been recovered. For whatever reason, I don’t own a bolt action rifle that doesn’t shoot at least MOA groups with TSX bullets (all Federal factory loads except the 6.8 SPC … Silver State Armory)
Before I switched to TSX, I used TBBC for anything bigger than whitetail. If you like leaded bullets, they have always performed fine for me. Although I’ve never tried them, the Swift A Frame has a great reputation.
My 270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag and 338 Win Mag all drive Swift A Frame bullet to the bulleyes with great consistency...for whatever reason.
I think that the reason why the NP is rarely spoken of is because of these new fangled Barnes TSX bullets. Everyone on the internet uses these TSX's it seems. Personally, I like bullets that shed some of their weight, so I don't care for the TSX's. I would rather use the Nosler Partition than the Barnes TSX or TTSX, on almost every game animal. I do not think that they expand fast enough, and I don't want a bullet that wastes its energy in some dirt bank or tree. I'll take the Nosler Partition with less accuracy and less penetration over any TSX any day. I just hope they never ban lead bullets because I have a very low opinion of those all copper bullets....
That is why I am a Nosler ballistic tip fan for Deer sized game. I am a big believer in shock so I am switching over to NBT's for my deer hunting.Quote:
PLUS the expansion of the front part creates large shock wave and transmits energy to the animal.
You are right Christian, I hope they never ban lead bullets!
You mean outside of California where it is illegal to use them on public land.Quote:
Originally Posted by enysse
They tried to pretend it was an "Enviornmental Issue" but it was really just the liberal bunny huggers of that messed up state trying to end hunting. They wanted to prevent hunting period on public land but didn't realize that bullets could be made without lead.
So now people in CA just have to use copper bullets and the bunny huggers are trying to figure out a reason copper is "bad for the enviornment"
Seriously...how many deer are ingesting lead out in the CA national forest from fired bullets LOL I don't even buy the concept that we need to avoid lead in waterfowl hunting but I can at least believe ducks might ingest SOME lead (but I doubt it really is a lot)
Well they tried to ban lead bullets in Wisconsin this spring! And I won't be one bit surprised they try to do it again in the coming years.
The reasons for this: It's environmentally friendly, non lead bullets are just as good if not better, and you will love this (It's doesn't cost too much more). After all no one stores bullets or reloads and just goes to the store to buy a box or 2 before the deer season opener. And biggest reason: The deer meat won't be contaminated with lead! After all everyone is dieing from lead poisoning! Of coarse they have done studies and can't prove it, by why take a chance!
I find the reasons all foolish and short minded! The last thing on my mind is dieing from ingesting lead!
A deer that I got 4 years had pieces of lead all over the place. There were even pieces in some of the Cheeseburgers my dad made with them, and I didn't die. I spit the lead pieces out a nd kept on eating, and I'm still alive and well.Quote:
Originally Posted by enysse
I lived in Sheboygan, WI for 4 years having just moved back to MI...Madison is basically "San Francisco East" To bad that is where the decisions get made because the rest of the state was GREAT and I miss Sheboygan!Quote:
Originally Posted by enysse
Hopefully you guys keep the Repbulicans in office and you might even be able to continue to use lead bullets....
Everybody that hunts needs to understand that this is not really about "the lead"...it is just another step toward ending hunting.
[QUOTE=Christian Snyder;33262]A deer that I got 4 years had pieces of lead all over the place. There were even pieces in some of the Cheeseburgers my dad made with them, and I didn't die. I spit the lead pieces out and kept on eating, and I'm still alive and well.[/QUOTE]
Really??? That is amazing???? We better call the liberal bunny huggers and inform them.... ;)
I live 30 minutes to the NE from Sheboygan, my stepkids live part time in Sheyboygan, so I'm there a lot :).Quote:
I lived in Sheboygan, WI for 4 years having just moved back to MI...Madison is basically "San Francisco East" To bad that is where the decisions get made because the rest of the state was GREAT and I miss Sheboygan!
Interesting thread. I dont like copper only bullets because you have to use longer bullets to get the same weight and those long bullets dont stabilize well in my 7mm RemMag. However, there is one Nosler I really dont like on deer and that is Nosler/Winchester joint venture balistic tip. (I dont know if this is the same bullet as Nosler balistic tip) Anyway I did use this bullet on reindeer once and it made a hole in the entrance with the size of my head, but it didnt penetrate trough the shoulderblade of the deer, it just exploded on the deers skin. I had to shoot it in the neck at 3 meter range to finish it off and the f.... bullet didnt penetrate the neckspine this time eigter, so I had to take another to the head. This time the deer died, but the bullet just eksploded in the deers head and didnt get trough... And this last shot was at a 2 feet range!!! That bullet must be constructed for varmintshooting?
THAT is part of the problem...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolverine67
The BT's (both versions) are constructed for shots out over 300 feet (100 yards) and is at its best out at 150-300 yards (both the CT and plain Nosler Ballistic Tips). They are DESIGNED for shooting animals at long range where the velocity is tapering off so that they will open effectively at slower speeds.
The fact that you were shooting them at TWO feet is the worst possible scenario for that bullet....like throwing gasoline on a fire....especially if you were shooting that 7mm Mag!
I have killed multiple deer and antelope stone dead like they were hit by lighting out at 200 yards with complete rib cage pass throughs and fist sized exit wounds.
The problem with the ballistic tips is when they show up closer than the 150 yards you were expecting and you are shooting a high velocity cartridge and shoot the shoulder blade not the lungs....that is a worst/worst/worst case sceario for a Nosler or Combined Technology BT bullet.
I quit using them for most hunting because I might be in a swamp shooting at bow ranges at one point and a shooting across a food plot at 200+ yards at another point in the day and need a bullet that can handle both situations.
The BT's are fine if you understand what they were DESIGNED to do and use them accourdingly. My rules would be
1) Expect shots at 100 yards or more
2) Standard velocity cartridges not high speed sizzlers unless I was expecting them to not typically be inside 150 yards
3) Never shoot the shoulder blade. Broadside or quartering away lung shots...pretend you are bow hunting. Bow hunters never try and go through the shoulder blade (at least not good ones) and wait for a good angle.
If I KNEW that most of my shots were likely to be long I would use a BT again, but the Partition is a better "all range" bullet.
The biggest issue with the BT's is people that try and use a sledgehammer to drive a trim nail (shooting them through boomer, high speed cartridges at inside 100 yards and shooting the shoulder). They are using the wrong tool for the job.
If you look at the Nosler web site they will tell you that the bullet was designed to be used at less than 3200 FPS and you will see the pics of them at various velocities. They are at there best down around 1900-2200 FPS http://www.nosler.com/Bullets/Ballistic-Tip.aspx How fast do you think your bullet was going at 2 feet???? Or even 11 feet (3 meters)??? (Especially if it was that 7mm Mag) At what range was the first shot???
I don't use them much anymore because of the limited (longish) range they were designed for and in most of my hunting I might get the animal at 30-75 yards or I might get it at 200 yards so I need a bullet that works well in both situations.
But if I knew there was 90 percent plus chance that my animal would be 150-300 yards and needed long range accuracy and minimal bullet drop/wind drift I would use it again in a heart beat.
Problem is most of my hunting isn't that situation.
I guess your right about this. Its my mistake not to understand what the bullet is built for. But that doesnt change the fact that the bullet is useless on a deerhunt (just because you never can tell what range you are going to shoot at advance) I now only use bullets like Partition, A-frame, TB Bearclaw and bonded bullets like Norma Oryx, Woodleigh and so on.
I agree...which is why, as I stated above, I have stopped using them for my typical whitetail hunting and once again gone back to the to the tougher bullets. In my normal hunting I just don't know where they will pop up and it could be bow range and it could be longish but usually not over 200. At those ranges any of the tougher bullets are better and accurate enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolverine67
But the BT's are an awesome american antelope bullet where shots are almost always over 100 yards, assuming you are not hunting out of a blind by a waterhole llike a bowhunter does.
Truth be told, a Rem Corelok or Winchester Powerpoint is still a great all around Whitetail bullet as unpopular as standard, non premium bullets are with the "internet hunting crowd"...they expand reliably but are tough enough to break shoulder blades.. They really will do the job on your average whitetail hunt but they are not "glamorous"..but the Nosler Partion has never failed me EVER on anything from Whitetail to Eland.