Strong Action .45-70 for Buffalo?
This is a discussion on Strong Action .45-70 for Buffalo? within the Firearms & Ammunition General forums, part of the Firearms & Ammunition category; Ten years ago, I acquired a well-built Siamese Mauser in .45-70. Being a fan of the older cartridges, my dream ...
07-04-2010, 08:50 AM #1
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Strong Action .45-70 for Buffalo?
Ten years ago, I acquired a well-built Siamese Mauser in .45-70. Being a fan of the older cartridges, my dream was that I'd take it to Africa. That is coming to fruition next June. I did some refinements to the gun, including express sights, Leupold 1.5-5x scope on QR mounts, etc.
I worked up a load with an Alpha Lafranck 350 grain heavy-jacketed spitzer bullet that clocks just over 2200 fps, and shoots under 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards. Lafranck's phone number results now in a "disconnected" message. Anybody know if he is still in business? His bullets were top-flight stuff with various jacket thicknesses, cannelure arrangements available.
Failing that, anybody have any experience/suggestions for a good bullet in this strong-action .45-70 for Buffalo? My plains rifle will probably be my Rem 700 Classic in .350 Magnum. The Mauser for Buffalo. Would a PH frown on my choice of calibers? Thanks for any help.
07-04-2010, 04:08 PM #2
North Fork makes a Cup Point (Expanding) solid that would be ideal for what you are trying to do.
.458-350 CPS - Premium Flat/Cup Point Solids - Bullets
Email me at firstname.lastname@example.org for some testing information if you are interested.
07-05-2010, 10:24 AM #3
I second Mike's recommending the North Fork bullets in the .45-70. Depending on where you go, the .45-70 with 350 grain bullets may not be legal to use on buffalo as the energy generated is below what is required in some countries. As an example, in Namibia the minimum energy for buffalo is 5400 Joules, which is approximately 3983 ft/lbs. In Zimbabwe the energy minimum is 5300 Joules. A 350 grain bullet at 2200 fps falls short of these requirements by 150-250 ft/lbs. I imagine some may overlook it..........some may not.
07-05-2010, 01:35 PM #4
As usual you are correct. I am not an advocate of the 45-70 for dangerous game, there are just too many better choices. But I also understand the desire to bring a sentimental favorite.
A buddy performed several test with the Cup Point Solids from a 45-70 and they performed very well. It generated enough velocity to expand and still had great penetration.
Talk to your PH and let him know what you are bringing. He will tell you if he has a problem with the 45-70. Just do not be dissappointed if he is very quick on the follow up shot.
BTW I read that Zim lowered their requirements to 5000 Joules, but most Parks personnel still quote the 5300 Joules requirement.
07-05-2010, 01:55 PM #5
Thanks for the info Mike, I had not heard of the change in Zim.
TO USE THIS WEAPON WITHOUT IT REACHING THE ENERGY SPEC WOULD PLACE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN LEGAL JEOPARDY! STAY LEGAL AND HUNT WITH A CLEAR CONSCIENCE!
11-28-2011, 10:53 AM #7
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Good luck.Practice whispering before you leave for Africa!
A Legend in my own mind!
11-28-2011, 12:05 PM #8
I wish I could find where I read about the change, but here are the current requirements:
Herewith hunting regulations:
Minimum Equipment Requirements for Rifle Hunting in Zimbabwe
Class A Game
5300 Joule = 3909 ft. lbs.
Minimum caliber 9.2mm about .366 in diameter
(Elephant, Hippo, Buffalo)
Class B Game
4300 Joule = 3171 ft. lbs.
Minimum caliber 7.0mm about .284 in diameter
(Lion, Giraffe, Eland)
Class C Game
3000 Joule = 2212 ft. lbs.
Minimum caliber 7.0mm .284 in diameter
(Leopard, Crocodile, Kudu, Oryx / Gemsbok, Hartebeest, Wildebeest, Zebra, Nyala, Sable Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, etc.)
Class D Game
850 Joule = 627 ft. lbs
Minimum caliber 5.56mm .223 in diameter
(Warthog, Impala, Reedbuck, Sitatunga, Duiker, Steenbok, Jackal, Game Birds, etc.)
I have a doubt
In your opinion Does that mean that you can use a 366 (9,3x62) for class A or you need both a minimum of 366 and a minimum of 5300 Joules? (I do not know any manufacturing cartridge in 9,3x62 with 5300 Joules)
11-28-2011, 03:37 PM #10
It is confusing because there used to be some factory loads quoted as having over 4000 lbs of energy in the 9.3x62. Trouble is its pretty hard to do within safe pressure limits. Not saying it cant be done but the loads will be stiff and possibly too hot for some guns. If a guy wants to use a 9.3 he could go to the 9.3x64 which is a larger case and is about equal to the .375. Also I believe the .45-70 could make the grade if properly loaded. For instance if you load a 400 gr bullet to 2125 fps you will get just over 4000 lbs. of muzzle energy. In a strong bolt action rifle its doable.
11-28-2011, 06:09 PM #11
Gentlemen to shed some light on this subject if you goto Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com mark Load type (Rifle) and Cartridge (45-70 Goverment modern rifles) will get you the info you need these loads exceed the 375 and can compare to the 458 Win Mag. if loaded with Max loads the 45-70 Sharpe's in a Mod. 1874 is my Big Bore Rifle and Modern rifles do not include lever action or Trapdoor Rifles.
11-28-2011, 08:11 PM #12
I knew I read the 5000# requirement somewhere. It came from AR posted by Ganyana (Ole Bally I am sure you know him). It was suppose to be an ammendment from 1999 to legally allow the use of the 9.3 by 62 for Class A game.
Not being argumentative as I trust the info from Martin, just making sure I was not losing my mind.
I would post the link but Jerome prefers us not to do so.
11-28-2011, 08:23 PM #13
The 45-70 will never compare to the 458 Win no matter what pixie dust and magic bullets are used. With a 400 grain bullet you will get 300 FPS velocity more with the 458 Win than the 45-70 and that is according to the above listed site.
To illustate the how much 300 FPS is, it is the same difference between a 458 Lott and a 460 Weatherby. Night and Day with big bullets.
Hunt witrh what you want but the 45-70 never was or will compare to a 458 Win.
To clarify gentlemen, the law states 9.2 mm and 5400 J ! As long as the firearm meets those requirements it's legal!
11-29-2011, 06:44 AM #15
Spitpatch to answer your question;
350gr bullet .458, loaded with 56gr H4198 gives you 2300fps with 50,000CUP.
11-29-2011, 09:20 AM #16
Sorry for being a little contentious. You are a good guy on here. I understand what you are saying.
I have two pet peeves on the forums, illegal hunts in Zim and the 45-70 being the equal of a 458 Win.
The funny thing is I am planning to hunt a trophy bull elephant with my 450-400 3 1/4" with a 400 Grain bullet at 2125 FPS. Go figure.
11-29-2011, 04:09 PM #17
11-29-2011, 08:56 PM #18
I hope to make a late season hunt in 2012. The rifle is a 106 year old Boswell and it would be a pretty neat way to hunt a trophy bull. If I go after buffalo this year I will bring the boswell for that also.
Your wanting to bring a 106 yr old gun reminds me of a pair of clients I once had! They were both young men in their 30's. One was a very wealthy brain surgeon from Miami and his sidekick was from Costa Rica. The wealthy chap brought out a pair of doubles. One a 500 H&H and the other a C&H 450/400. The sidekick was just a shorty and didn't want to 'try' his gun at the range! Well later that day he loaded both chambers and I set him up on a nice 'wounda beast' and he let fly! Both barrels went off giving him some nasty face reconstruction which his friend had to (a' )dress in the field! The trackers thought it hilarous giving rise to our favourite saying " it's all fun and games til someone gets hurt ...then it's just downright hilarious '!!
I think the point is make sure that old gun is performing 100% before you bring it out! Mind you the trackers do appreciate a bit of humour from time to time!
Spitpatch....just to answer your original question simply!
yr 45-70 will drop a Buff like any other 'big bore' with a well placed bullet!
I have used Brenneke and South African made 'Penetrator' slugs from a 12gg shotgun with great success!
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