Using a Double Trigger Shotgun as Training for a Doubel Rifle

Hello All,

Someone gave me what I though was a great idea.

I'm brand-spanking new to DR's and am doing a cape/elephant/croc hunt next year in Zimbabwe with Chifuti. I've recently aquired a K-Gun 470NE and plan to spend the next year practicing and training but at $5-$10/round, it's pretty darn $$$$$! The re-loading cost obviously is less when recycling the brass (about $2-$3) but still...

The idea is to acquire an O/U shotgun with a double trigger (like this one: CZ-USA -> Mallard) and use it for clays so as to get used to "acquiring" the second trigger and eventually making it second nature. At $500, it's not too pricey and can shoot 100's and 100's of 20/28 guage shells for a fraction of 470 rnds.

I'm already a competitive skeet shooter (I use a K-80) so practically speaking, shooting a few boxes with this CZ is not too difficult at my club.

My questions are:

-Has anyone tried this?
-Any big "cons" that I'm missing?

The only downside that I see is that it may very well mess up my skeet shooting as my K-80 has a single trigger.

Thanks in advance for your input.

How about dropping slugs in and making believe it's a 470. Now hitting the flying clays with the slugs- now that would be a feat! Good muscle memory training.

gxsr-sarge

A couple;e of things you could try and not spend the money...

Krieghoff makes a great product...so you are good to go...

make a few dummy cartridges from your 470 brass...remove the primer and in-place some silicone jell...while in the house put a couple in the rifle and pull the trigger and eject the two you shot and replace and do again...or purchase 2 sets of dummy case ( no primer, no powder ) rounds,,,they make them...or make your own..

you could do your practice off of shooting sticks plus off hand in the den...

gxsr-sarge,

James has given you some good advice and the shotgun idea will work for finding that second trigger. However, keep in mind that none of this will help you shoot your double quickly and accuratly. You will still need to fire your actual hunting ammo to get profficient at controling the recoil and re-aquiring your target after the first shot. After all, being able to fire a second shot quickly and accuratly is the strength of a double, but as we all know means nothing if the bullets do not end up in the correct place.

Originally Posted by richteb

gxsr-sarge,

James has given you some good advice and the shotgun idea will work for finding that second trigger. However, keep in mind that none of this will help you shoot your double quickly and accuratly. You will still need to fire your actual hunting ammo to get profficient at controling the recoil and re-aquiring your target after the first shot. After all, being able to fire a second shot quickly and accuratly is the strength of a double, but as we all know means nothing if the bullets do not end up in the correct place.

I totally agree.
James gave a great advice and I think training with a shotgun is rather pointless.

Watch some DG videos at home with your double in your hands with dummy cartridges and practice there.
"Shoot" at the animals from different positions.
That way you will practice using the second trigger and you will get a visual idea about how your sight picture looks like when you go to Zimbabwe for the real deal.
Then you of course need to do some real training with the gun at the range the last weeks before your departure for your hunt

Originally Posted by Norwegianwoods

I totally agree.
James gave a great advice and I think training with a shotgun is rather pointless.

Watch some DG videos at home with your double in your hands with dummy cartridges and practice there.
"Shoot" at the animals from different positions.
That way you will practice using the second trigger and you will get a visual idea about how your sight picture looks like when you go to Zimbabwe for the real deal.
Then you of course need to do some real training with the gun at the range the last weeks before your departure for your hunt

There are two issues at work - familiarity with double triggers and familiarity with a specific rifle. It does take a little time to become familiar with double triggers. Once one does, they are as natural and as quick as a single. I would also note that the use of both becomes so instinctive, that there is no conscious adjustment. I have about a dozen SxS's and perhaps 3/4's are double trigger guns. If you asked me in the middle of a round of clays whether I was shooting a single or double trigger, I would either have to remember which gun I was shooting or look down and see. That sort of total familiarity with double triggers can be learned with a shotgun and a clays or skeet range is the place to do it where you will fire lots of second shots quickly where your mind is on a target rather than the triggers. And it takes lots of rounds and lots of trips to develop that sort of automatic muscle memory.

The second point made by the Norseman, Rich and James are equally valid. While you are mastering double triggers, you will also need to become totally familiar with your specific rifle. Dry firing (only with quality, spring loaded snap caps - not fired cases!) is a great way to develop that familiarity.

Originally Posted by Norwegianwoods

I totally agree.
Watch some DG videos at home with your double in your hands with dummy cartridges and practice there.
"Shoot" at the animals from different positions.

I thought that I was the only one that did this!! What a relief! I like the Craig Boddington videos. Any others that you can all recommend?

Regarding the snap caps, I've read a lot about making your own with the silicone jell. I don't have a problem doing that but what about using the A-Zoom snap caps? They make them in 470NE.

Many thanks to all of you on your advice. I think that a combination of dry firing at home and live firing at the range once or twice a month will most certainly help. There is a private range close by wherein I have much more liberty in firing and handling a firearm (as opposed to a public range).

Thanks again

You might look into a sub caliber insert option for your Krieghoff. Many European rifle makers offer a sub caliber "insert or sleeve" option for double rifles and drillings. IF one is available for your particular Krieghoff model, using 22 cal or even standard hunting rounds for training will assist you in developing the desired muscle memory for the twin triggers as well as acquiring the first round site picture.

Not to mention it would be a lot less expensive and easier on the shoulder.

Originally Posted by Macs B

You might look into a sub caliber insert option for your Krieghoff. Many European rifle makers offer a sub caliber "insert or sleeve" option for double rifles and drillings. IF one is available for your particular Krieghoff model, using 22 cal or even standard hunting rounds for training will assist you in developing the desired muscle memory for the twin triggers as well as acquiring the first round site picture.

Not to mention it would be a lot less expensive and easier on the shoulder.

Sort of like Briley or Kolar tubes for shotguns. I agree that it would be sweet to shoot .22's out of a DR. I'll look into it but I can't imagine driving in a sub-caliber tube into a rifled barrel - an expensive one at that!

Originally Posted by gxsr-sarge

Sort of like Briley or Kolar tubes for shotguns. I agree that it would be sweet to shoot .22's out of a DR. I'll look into it but I can't imagine driving in a sub-caliber tube into a rifled barrel - an expensive one at that!

i have tubes for scaling down shotguns, but i have never heard of the same for double rifles. with the drillings the inserts go in the shotgun barrel/s to the best of my knowledge.

After doing a little web shopping at the Krieghoff.de website I found that the "Classic" double rifle is offered with intecahngeable barrels down to varmint calibers. The rifle inserts are only avaiable in the double rifle drilling, the insert fitting the shotgun barrel. Drop in sub caliber adapters are available for the 375 chambered DR from the Frankonia.de website. I imagine that if they are available for the 375 then you can find them for the 470. These are not accurate hunting barrel adapter inserts, rather simply a chamber adapter for 22 cal center fire training with a big bore. You might be surprised what is available from Krieghoff if you give them a call. Most German arms companies offer items that are not typically available in the US market.

Originally Posted by Macs B

After doing a little web shopping at the Krieghoff.de website I found that the "Classic" double rifle is offered with intecahngeable barrels down to varmint calibers. The rifle inserts are only avaiable in the double rifle drilling, the insert fitting the shotgun barrel. Drop in sub caliber adapters are available for the 375 chambered DR from the Frankonia.de website. I imagine that if they are available for the 375 then you can find them for the 470. These are not accurate hunting barrel adapter inserts, rather simply a chamber adapter for 22 cal center fire training with a big bore. You might be surprised what is available from Krieghoff if you give them a call. Most German arms companies offer items that are not typically available in the US market.

Thanks and I am curious. Would you mind providing a link to the sub-caliber adapters from the Frankonia.de website. My German is a bit rusty.