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Holland and Holland “best” English Classic Double Rifle

This is a discussion on Holland and Holland “best” English Classic Double Rifle within the Double Rifles forums, part of the HUNTING EQUIPMENT, FIREARMS & AMMUNITION category; I had the opportunity recently to handle a fine Holland and Holland English classic double and must say what a ...

  1. #1
    Macs B's Avatar
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    Default Holland and Holland “best” English Classic Double Rifle

    I had the opportunity recently to handle a fine Holland and Holland English classic double and must say what a surprise. The surprise was that the entire rifle was created from some form of plastic or polymer. Seem odd? Let me explain. Several years ago a good friend of mine was studying engineering at The Ohio State University. As part of a computer aided design project he created a CAD version of the action of a family heirloom rifle, a classic H&H. Many years later this little project has blossomed into a full-blown obsession, the result of which is a fully rendered and modeled Holland and Holland classic double.

    I am sure you are asking yourselves why would anyone build a fully operational plastic H&H rifle. Well it’s not for the toy market. Apparently the full 3D modeling of a device is one of the final stages to accomplish when reverse engineering a project. I don’t believe my schoolmate has any intention of marketing a reverse engineered Holland double rifle, but it did raise a question in my mind.

    Is it possible with today’s technology to create an exact copy of a classic rifle utilizing modern materials and techniques? I have researched the John Rigby rifles produced on modern machining by the California Company; once you get past the political and ethical debates it seems that the rifles themselves were sound and reliable versions of the original. The art of the hand made rifle is not going to be reproduced in a CNC machine but it certainly is possible to get close.

    The raw materials and machine techniques available today are far superior to any of the age when these rifles were originally created. The availability of consistently similar billets of high-grade carbon alloys would allow for precise repeatable machine work. The accuracy of modern computer machine techniques would allow for duplication to within fractions of a percentage of the original. So the question is, in your opinion would it be possible to produce a modern version of the classic rifle utilizing modern materials and machining? If you did produce the rifle would it be of a similar quality? Aside from the ethical/legal questions of trademark and copyright infringement what are your opinions on the viability of this type of manufacturing. Is it too small of a niche to be profitable? Would the “ethics” of such a project render it unacceptable, much like we have seen from the California Rigby guns? What are your thoughts?
    Macs Burke

  2. #2
    Code4's Avatar
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    I don't own a double and have not hunted with one.

    I am led to believe that double rifles with modern materials and using up to date manufacturing techniques (CNC machining) are being produced right now in the UK and other areas. CNC machining of parts is already common and those parts are often used by different firms. I do not know if the designs have been updated.

    There is one school of thought that the Californian Rigby Doubles are based on shotgun actions brought in. Regardless, they would be made of modern materials.

    I don't see an ethical issue at all. It would depend on market forces and a perception of what works and what is 'proper' in the eye of the purchaser. I wonder if a double rifle with a computer chip, computer regulated barrels and a synthetic stock would out sell a more traditionally designed double. We won't know until a builder of doubles trys to market one.
    Time spent in Reconnaisance is never wasted.

  3. #3
    James.Grage's Avatar
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    Reverse engineering is done all the time...and in areas that you probably would not have thought of.

    To receive a better answer to your question i would suggest you ask the Japanese and Chinese manufacturing section, they have been doing it for years...
    James Grage - New Mexico
    Hold a steady Eye & Rifle...
    "Very few of the so-called liberals are open-minded...they shout you down and won't let you speak if you disagree with them." John Wayne

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    enysse's Avatar
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    +1 for James's done all the time 24/7!

  5. #5
    AkMike's Avatar
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    I've seen pictures of the Cali-Rigby's flats and water table. They were at one time proofed as shotguns in Germany then mono-blocked and turned into rifles. That's not saying that they are bad or unsafe either. I have a JP Sauer that has been reworked into a great shooting 450 NE.

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