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Hi
I would like to know which type of broadhead(s) can give an easily followable blood trail?
I used a 2 blade stinger 125 grain for my gemsbok , I shot it in the heart it only ran about ten meters but there was not a drop of blood.I don't know why.
Dox
Well the Rage broadhead usually gives a good blood trail. So does Thunderhead, G5 and Muzzy. Sometimes it depend where you shoot the arrow, what kind of arrow weight you have and other factors that create a good blood trail.
On my first bowhunting trip to Africa I shot the same two blade magnus stingers that you are using. Not hardly any bloodtrail and they just didn't do well for me. A "perfectly shot" heartshot on a kudu ended up with hardly any blood and the damn thing ran almost 800 yards and died, leaving very little blood to follow. Then I took a quarter away "gimme" shot on a zebra. The little broadhead slid between the hide and ribcage, never getting into the "good stuff". And it was not that severe of an angle. I was extremely upset.
I was in Botswana at the time so the PH ended up driving into Maun (about a three hour trip) to get me some muzzy three blade broadheads. Totally changed the game. Big entrance and exit holes with lots of blood. Sell the magnus stingers, buy some muzzy and you will not be disappointed.
ok, first of all, please don't check my spelling and so on...
i translated this text from english to german to english again, so some things may have been lost.
My experience is, that two blade broadheads do leave a very small, near to nothing, bloodtrail.
It usually depends, where you hit the animal, how the hide and the cut tissue bends, flexes, or regains shape...
whatever you call it....
it is a straight cut, which tends to close very fast due to the the movement and the position of the animal... etc.
a 3-blade head rips the hid clearly, no chance of closing only by pressing the cut together...
thats why the blodd can make its way to the hunters field of view....
this is also a reason for a surgeon to cut a triangular shape, while having a difficult op
it just keeps open easier.
so any stable 3 blade head will give you, if everything goes the normal way, a good and decend bloodtrail...
BUT: to get a good bloodtrail, you need a good penetration, a lethal shoot, a decend arrow and so on....
some of those things above are not as easy to achive with a 3 blade head.
penetration will increase with heavy bows... ok, not problem with that, but there are a lot of other important features a good broadhead can give you....
Top 12 Arrow Penetration Enhancing Factors
Structural Integrity
The most important factor of arrow penetration is structural integrity. If any component of your arrow fails penetration either completely stops or is greatly reduced.
Arrow Flight
If an arrow is not flying perfectly it’s wasting valuable energy that could have contributed to penetration. If an arrow impacts before it has achieved perfect flight, energy is wasted that could have contributed to forward momentum and penetration. Perfect flight is crucial, you must achieve it no matter what the cost. Pay close attention to the other factors too though or you may find yourself shooting arrows that fly perfectly but can’t penetrate well at all.
Arrow FOC (Forward of Center)
Tests have shown that EFOC, defined as 19% - 30% forward of center and Ultra EFOC, defined as over 30% forward of center enhances penetration from 40% to 60+%.
Broadhead Mechanical Advantage
Long narrow broadheads have an advantage over shorter wider heads. It takes less energy to push them through an animal. That is their mechanical advantage. This is second only to EFOC and Ultra EFOC as a penetration enhancing factor.
Shaft Diameter to Ferrule Diameter Ratio
You’ll lose up to 30% of your penetration potential if the shaft is larger than the ferrule where they meet. It’s best to be slightly smaller in diameter than the ferrule of the broadhead.
Arrow Mass or Weight
Heavier arrows absorb more energy from the bow at the shot & they carry their momentum better than lighter arrows so they penetrate better. Bowhunters should use the heaviest arrow that will deliver a trajectory they can live with.
Brodhead Edge Finish
Broadhead edges that have been honed and stropped smooth have a 26% advantage over smooth filed edges and a 60% advantage over the coarse “serrated” Howard Hill edge.
Shaft Profile
On all shots tapered shafts show an 8% penetration gain over parallel shafts and a 15% gain over barrel tapered shafts.
Broadhead/Arrow Silhouette
Smooth transitions and slick arrow finishes greatly enhance the penetration potential of your broadhead/arrow combination. Broadhead ferrules with bumps or any irregular surfaces impede penetration, especially in bone.
Type of Edge Bevel
Only if no bone is encountered does this factor rank 10th. If bone is hit, and more often than not it is, this factor jumps up toward the top of the list. If you can’t get through the bone, penetration stops. The powerful rotational force of single bevel broadheads splits bone. Single bevel broadheads regularly turn what would be a wound into a killing shot. Note: Your arrow must be of sufficient weight and strength to drive the broadhead through and withstand the forces involved in breaching the bone.
Tip Design
In all testing where bone was encountered the Tanto tip performed best. It resisted damage and skipped less than any other tip design.
If you use good heavy broadhead, i think above 125 grain, that should not be a problem.
Arrow Mass 650 and Above
When soft tissue is hit, this factor is ranked last in importance BUT if heavy bone is hit it will be near the top of the list. Heavy bone is almost impossible to breach unless you have 650 grains or better in mass arrow weight.
ok, thats all i know about penetration...
but theres more to know about:
Tissue Resistance to Arrow Penetration
Fact: The greater your arrow speed, the greater the resistance to penetration.
Speed in and of itself isn’t bad. Opting for speed at all costs, well, comes at a cost. Here’s one of them. When any object moves through another the object being moved through resists the forward momentum of the other. A good illustration of this is how the wind resists your hand if you put it out the window of a moving vehicle. The faster the vehicle moves, the more the air resists your hand.
There is a formula for determining the degree of resistance various substances have to an object attempting to pass through them. It’s officially called the “Force of Drag” but we generally hear it referred to as wind resistance, or water resistance. This force of drag applies to other mediums as well like animal tissue, including hair, hide, flesh and bone.
The actual formula states:
http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/imag...ce_formula.png
more on wikipedia: Drag (physics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That’s a complex formula but here’s what it means to arrow penetration:
The faster an arrow is moving the more resistance there is to it. (Even in the air.)
Because the velocity is squared in the formula, the resistance increases tremendously as the arrow speed increases.
If you double the speed of the arrow, the resistance factor increases by four. (2 x 2 = 4, velocity squared.) Here’s where it gets scary. If the arrow speed increases by a factor of four, then the resistance factor increases by 16 times! (4 x 4 =16, velocity squared)
What does that mean to bowhunters? It means an arrow traveling at 150 feet per second is met with four times less resistance to penetration than an arrow traveling at 300 feet per second. Another way to say it is; an arrow traveling at 300 fps has to overcome four times the amount of resistance to penetration than an arrow traveling at 150 fps.
The cold hard truth is.... When it come to penetration, light fast arrows lose the momentum/kinetic energy battle AND when they reach the animal they have to overcome as much as four times the resistance to penetration as slower moving, heavy arrows do.
If you're goal is to gain kinetic energy on paper by shooting lighter arrows faster, science proves it's a lose-lose proposition.
First, you LOSE velocity twice as fast as momentum AND you LOSE penetration potential in what energy you do have left because the medium you're trying to penetrate is resisting that penetration four times more than if you were moving half as fast.
The above facts reveal serious implications to bowhunters who go for 'speed at all costs'. For those who still insist on shooting lighter arrows.... If you care about penetration. If you care about increasing your chances of success and limiting your odds of wounding an animal, you MUST AT LEAST choose a broadhead designed to defeat the increased resistance to penetration.
That all said, i would say:
shoot that broadhead, that is able to take down the desired animal,
the broadhead that give the best penetration and performes best, when it comes to
the actual killing of the animal...
and don't worry to much about the bloodtrail...
if you shoot straight, the bloddtrail won't be long enough to worry about....
:D
(more information on those topics: the ashby reports and Alaska Bowhunting Home Page)
forgot something :D
if you really want a horrible bloodtrail and if you are shooting a high poundage bow
try one of those broadheads:
http://www.ospsabermaxx.com/image/product-sabermaxx.jpg
http://www.ospsabermaxx.com/image/product-coremaxx.jpg
the leave an almost 0.79 calibre hole...
now, that will be a bloodtrail, even my 99 year old granny could follow...
you may buy them here:
Archery - Outdoor Sports Products - High Quality Archery Broadheads to Enhance Your Hunting and Outdoor Living Experience.
Nice sales pitch! Way to many curves and surfaces to me. The wind might cause a lot of problems. It helps for a arrow to fly super straight with a lot of momentum. But to me the broadhead has has to be streamline and super sharp. I like thick blades so they don't break off on bones. And I think most 100 grain or 125 grain broadheads will do the job if the cutting diameter in 1 1/8 or bigger...and I do like a three blade broadhead...because I think it has a greater chance at inflicting damage.
Ha! I agree. I especially don't care for serrated blades on any broad head.Quote:
Originally Posted by enysse
guys,
i did not want to advertise those heads...
just stating, that those heads will leave a bloodtrail for sure...
as far as it concerns me, i dont care much about a good bloodtrail, as i am confident that my target
will go down in sight in most cases...
i am no fan of 3 blade broadheads myself, therefore i'd advise on using a good and stabel fixed 2 blade bh and forget about anything else...
I've recently been in touch with an outfitter to plan my trip and he has suggested multiblade heads for blood trailing should the shot not be as good as hoped and planned for. I normally use a single bevel 2 blade head but will probably use a 2 blade fixed with bleeder blades to get the best of both worlds. Of course about 500grains total anf on plains game
cheers
bruce
OK I didn't see anywhere...unless I missed it...the actual question being answered!
The answer is:
The lack of blood trail does NOT depend on the number of blades!
The blood trail will be determined by the angle of the shot! If you are shooting from a tree stand or elevated position so that the arrow is angled somewhat downward, enters the chest high and exits low, you will have a good blood trail! If you are at the same level as the animal, shoot him through the chest mid way up, the chest cavity has to fill with blood before there'll be any REAL blood trail! This may mean he dies from the pneumothorax before the trail is really evident! If the shot is low through the heart you'll find the blood trail fairly quick! Where possible choose an open 'killing ground' so you can watch the animals for some distance after the shot! The body language should tell you of the shot placement!
My criteria for broadhead choice was something with 'thick' blades that won't snap or bend on connecting heavy shoulder blade type bone!
Hi Dox
We have used quite the number of broadheads this year; I would firstly like to say that I found none better than the German Kinetics silver flames I personally use 180gr 1 1/2" cutting diameter you will feel comfortable knowing that they are as reliable as the day is long. They do leave a pretty good blood trail even though it is a two bladed broadhead.
The other broadhead that we found left a pretty good blood trail was a 3 bladed Meat Seeker I don't like mechanicals but they did do well on impala.
I suppose like anything it will depend on the quarry you are after but in saying that I would prefer a well made two bladed broadhead on bigger game like Eland over most mechanicals the bigger the animal the more blood so in short you should get a pretty good blood trail and if you use the German Kinetics silver flames 1 1/2" cutting diameter there should not be a problem with both penetration and blood?
Best Regards
Louis van Bergen
First of all you need to get a pass trough to be rather sure you will get a good blood trail(In my opinion should bowhunters always try to achieve a pass trough).
And the bigger surface area you cut, the better blood trail you usually will get.
To get a broadhead that does both very well on all sorts of game is very difficult. Of course the heavier draw weight you shoot, the easier it gets.
The ability for broadheads to penetrate is mostly decided by how much momentum and FOC the arrow has when it hits the animal.
The momentum is decided by speed and weight of the arrow. FOC is decided by how much of the arrows weight is in the forward part of the arrow.
The heavier arrow you use, the more momentum you will get and the shot will make less noise, but the arrow will also have lower speed and will fall faster giving a more arced trajectory of the arrow.
For a good blood trail, nothing beats a huge cutting mechanical broadhead. But the force needed to both open the mechanical and to push it all the way trough so you get a large exit wound for a good blood trail demands much momentum.
The more draw weight you shoot, the heavier game can be shot with a mechanical.
But you can never be 100% sure that a mechanical never fails to open or opens up to early or blades falling of or breaking.
The broadheads that gives the best penetration are the 2-blade cut on contact ones, but they usually leave a smaller blood trail than other heads because of a smaller cutting area.
The 3 and 4-bladed broadheads falls somewhere between the 2 types mentioned above in both penetration and blood trail.
What broadhead each hunter chooses should be decided very much on what poundage he/she shoots, what game he/she wants to shoot and what style of hunting he/she will do.
If a hunter will only be hunting from a blind where all shots will be out to maximum 25 meters, then the hunter should use an arrow that is on the real heavy side in my opinion.
By doing that the hunter will have the momentum to shoot a broadhead with a larger cutting area on heavier animals achieving both a pass trough and a good blood trail .
If a hunter is doing walk and stalk then he/she needs to consider more about how much the arrow will arc(all depending on how far he/she is willing to shoot)and should use a lighter arrow.
But it is still very important that it still have enough momentum for adequate penetration.
By choosing to have a lighter arrow for better trajectory, the hunter needs to sacrifice cutting surface to achieve a pass trough.
Myself want to both do walk and stalk and also some hunting from blinds.
I am shooting a 70 lbs bow with a 31" draw length.
I am not confident enough in the mechanicals sold today, so I will never risk using them while hunting.
I want to be sorted for shots out to at least 50 meters when stalking and will need to use an arrow that is not very heavy(still far from light) because of this and will use a 4 blade fixed broadhead.
I also want to have arrows that are adequate for Eland and maybe Giraffe, so I will also have some really heavy arrows for this and I will use a 2 blade cut on contact.
For hunting all PG but Eland and Giraffe I will use 125 grain Slick Trick Magnums and for Eland and Giraffe I will use 180 grain Silver Flames
Myself want to both do walk and stalk and also some hunting from blinds.
I am shooting a 70 lbs bow with a 31" draw length.
I am not confident enough in the mechanicals sold today, so I will never risk using them while hunting.
I want to be sorted for shots out to at least 50 meters when stalking and will need to use an arrow that is not very heavy(still far from light) because of this and will use a 4 blade fixed broadhead.
I also want to have arrows that are adequate for Eland and maybe Giraffe, so I will also have some really heavy arrows for this and I will use a 2 blade cut on contact.
For hunting all PG but Eland and Giraffe I will use 125 grain Slick Trick Magnums and for Eland and Giraffe I will use 180 grain Silver Flames.
You make things very difficult for yourself!
Firstly 50m shots out here on game are going to have you do a lot of walking to find them after brisket shots or other wounds...rather not do it!! Even if you are extremely confident and are shooting a very fast bow and arrow combo, seriously, limit your shots to 30m furthest! Your PH I am sure will give you the exact same advice...we hate having to track wounded animals for hours!
You have a nice long draw length....use a 5 - 600 grain arrow at 230 fps + with a good solid 2 bladed broadhead for ALL your game. You don't need the heavier BH's for Eland and Giraffe. As long as you achieve a good double pneumothorax ( double lung shot) all will be good! Don't keep swopping your kit around...here in africa all animals come in all the time! Shoot what you shoot best and go with it!
Shooting Giraffe will take very careful shot placement...discuss with your PH and PAY ATTENTION to the advice he gives!!
Enjoy!
Thanks for your advice:)
You can be very sure that I will never take a shot I am not 100% confident about with a bow or a gun.
No one hates wounding animals more than me, so I will not take risky shots.
Gentleman,
Buy cheaper broadheads, and spend money on a better dog.;)
Best Regards
Marius Goosen
A good tracking dog is worth more than its own weight in gold:)Quote:
Originally Posted by KMG Hunting Safaris
I have been using tracking dogs for wounded deer for 15 years and found many deer for other hunters and I have learned very much about tracking wounded deer from them.
My best tracking dog did 100+ trackings for wounded deer(or deer running more than 300 meters before dying after a shot) with 100% success.
I used wirehaired dachshounds and I bred them for some years too.
Hopefully will there be no need of any tracking dogs when I go to hunt PGs next year:)
http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/y...3/DSC03353.jpg
What a hunting dog should look like...after a successful wounded Bushbuck track and bay. Successful when you:
1. Find the Bushbuck
2.You're dog survives.
...and you too!Quote:
Originally Posted by KMG Hunting Safaris
Still use those German Kinetics Louis was talking about.
Spend your money on GOOD broadheads...shoot straight and enjoy the company of your favourite dog into it's ripe old age! I love my dog too much to risk him over a 'mistake' from me!Quote:
Originally Posted by KMG Hunting Safaris
He hunts alot....rats!
I hunt alot....buffalo and Elephant!
we both....sit and enjoy our favourite drinks around the camp fire and sleepily reminisce!! :)