HOW CAN ANYONE COME AND HUNT AND LEAVE WITHOUT PAYING YOUR ANIMALS...???

This was a post in another thread and I thought deserves its own thread and to stop a hijacking.

Anyone know a situation like this.

Originally Posted by PRO-DIP LIMPOPO

Dear Africahunting

I have said it before, and I want to say it again: "What's good for the Goose, is good for the Ganda..."

We have heard and read a lot of complaints regarding Outfitters in general, about this "research" to find the right Outfitter, but what about finding the right clients? How and where do we (us, the Taxidermies, Outfitters etc) get information about a client to find out IF he indeed has the money to pay for his hunt as promised. So many leave you empty handed with words like "I promise I'll wire the money as soon as I get home..."

A month goes by, maybe two or even three... No money yet, just empty promises that "the check is in the mail"... or "it got lost, I'll send another"... Now we are at the THIRD check... (Do I really look that stupid...??)

How can I find out if this guy really HAVE the money to pay? Who can I turn to do some "research"...?

HOW CAN ANYONE COME AND HUNT AND LEAVE WITHOUT PAYING YOUR ANIMALS...???

(Feeling terribe about a loss of $6100 is understandable, but what about that guy that's still waiting for his $22 000...!!!?? This is unacceptable!!)

Africahunting, you won't believe how many times this happens. It's like a new breed of hunters passing through. Not just at one Outfitting Company, but many. It happens all over and it needs to stop. The clients leave and forget about the skinners with no tips, animals that's not paid on the concessions, the bad relationships between Outfitter and Landowner that's being created that leads to be banned from your best consession, etc etc etc... Money that you have been counting on, but still, nothing but excuses.

When you booked your hunt, surely you knew if you had the money or not? How can you leave with a smile, saying your good byes and farewells, knowing that you've actually conned these nice people...?

If an Outfitter / Taxidermy's business can be ruined on AH because you told everyone that he didn't add your extra horns or tusks, or whatever that might not have been on purpose, (speaking in general) what should happen to these "Con-Hunters"..?? Where do we take it from here?

Remember, "What's good for the Goose, is good for the Ganda..."

My FIRST REPLY:

Originally Posted by BRICKBURN

Who are these guys?
Got some names locations?
Outfits they have conned?

You will note that there are warnings on here about con artists pretending to buy hunts, book them etc.

Not the place in this thread. Feel free to start another one!!!!

PRO-DIP LIMPOPO RESPONSE

Originally Posted by PRO-DIP LIMPOPO

Brickburn, these were sweet, lovely people, not doing this for a living. I really think they didn't think it through, jumped on the bus with their friends, but couldn't admit they didn't have the money to pay. Hoped for a miracle probably...

But now what?

At one taxidermist I visited he had an entire safari (a huge trophy list) completely mounted for someone who had money when they hunted and then a year later his business went under so delivery was not being accepted nor final payment being made.
Not the same situation being presented here.

The 50% deposit covered the costs though.
Not the way anyone wants to do business but at least the operator did not lose his shirt.

Denial is a problem, Impulse control another.

DEPOSITS might be the only may to cover your butt.


It is a rare hunter that is not euphoric immediately after a successful hunt.
I was exactly the same. I shot my first animal, a very nice Eland, and immediately wanted to have a shoulder mount done.

The taxidermist was excited about the work, the PH was to.

After the initial impulse I rethought about where I would be able to hang it??? I told the PH to change the work order with the taxidermist.

I then asked for it to be a European mount and just salt the cape. I'd decide about mounting it when I got home.

It was a lesson to learn for sure.


I might suggest a cooling off period and a significant deposit might cure some of this.
Nice of not you are running a business and are dealing with euphoric people!

Brickburn

Different but kind of the same.

I went on a hunting trip south of King Salmon, Alaska with 4 other individuals. 2 Mike's, 2 Tim's and me. We had been planning our hunting trip for about 1 year, Mike # 1 and I provided all the camping equipment Plus rubber rafts and out boards motors. The other 3 were responsible for there own equipment.

To say the least 2 individuals in our party did not have any money for motels at Anchorage going and coming. or for meals and drinks and so on. in fact one arrived in camp with out any ammo and i loaned them 10 rounds from my limited supply...A hunt from hell if you know what i mean...we ran out of fuel 3 day prior to pick up as Mike #2 heated his tent during the day to dry his clothes and sleeping bag...

So just because a person has a good job and money, does not equate to them paying there bill when the time comes...

No as far as Africa goes, i have been told while visiting with some PH's that clients have showed up in camp with no means for paying there trophy fees. It does happen and PH's are reluctant to put forth problem clientele names.

Thank you James for opening up a Forum for this! You are so sweet...

Maybe now we would find out if one should send a "Bounty Hunter" on your behalf to collect the money? To what extreme can an Outfitter in General go to collect their money in another country so clients might be able to "run", but cannot "hide"...!

REGARDS
Prodip

"They came, they've hunted... and left the lodge Haunted..."

Was told a story by one of the local outfitters here that hosted a chap for his first hunt. Guy paid and tipped well and all was good. So when the PH got a call from the guy saying he wanted to hunt again, the PH said that the guy should go through the Outfitter as is always the case (should have raised the red flag right then). Outfitter was contacted eventually after much back and forth between client and PH and since the time to the proposed hunt was days away the deposit wasnt paid in full. Usual excuse, I can only pay so much per day and will pay the rest on arrival... PH meets guy at airport, old buddies hunting again, Ill give outfitter the money later etc no problem. More animals than what the wishlist was were taken, bigger and better than his first hunt. On departure day those dreadful words where uttered, Oh lets go to the ATM, no problem, Oh Im sorry, my card isnt working??? Well I promise I will pay when I get home. Here why dont you hold onto my "Gold" money clip and this "Fantastic" Saffire that I bought at the airport. Well the Outfitter has written the money off to school fees, at least the small portion of the deposit covered the PHs pay.
Moral of the story, sometimes a con will go a long way to con you.

Originally Posted by James.Grage

Brickburn

Different but kind of the same.

To say the least 2 individuals in our party did not have any money for motels at Anchorage going and coming. or for meals and drinks and so on. in fact one arrived in camp with out any ammo and i loaned them 10 rounds from my limited supply...A hunt from hell if you know what i mean...we ran out of fuel 3 day prior to pick up as Mike #2 heated his tent during the day to dry his clothes and sleeping bag...
.................

Sounds to me like they wanted to spear hunt. Showed up on a hunting trip with No ammo?

I guess we all run into selfish or clueless people. Sad.

Guess the days of a contract "signed" with a handshake and a mans/woman's word, are becoming less and less. Most of the jobs I do are still, on the handshake (nothing signed) I do the job and get paid. Just sucks to read these threads, makes us all look bad.

Yep, there was a time when a persons word meant something. Now less and less common. Very sad statement on our society.

Thats one of the reasons I like package hunts pay your deposit and the remainder to be paid upon arrival, I know that animals are added to list after the fact what the Outfitter should do is make it clear if you shoot it you pay for it that night or the cost of that animal will come off the remaining animals on thier list. If they have already finished this list and can't pay for the animal then the hunt is finished the meat, Cape and horns are to remain the property of the Outfitter to be sold, there are other hunters who need replacement capes for there trophies and the meat can be sold at market and the horns hung on the fence. If the hunt was paid for and a Taxidermist takes the trophies and mounts them with out a deposit to cover there cost well all I can say is not very smart, hold the trophies until deposit is made after a set time if the fee is not paid then the trophies are yours and again the cape can be used or sold for the storage fee.

Originally Posted by Bobpuckett

Thats one of the reasons I like package hunts pay your deposit and the remainder to be paid upon arrival, I know that animals are added to list after the fact what the Outfitter should do is make it clear if you shoot it you pay for it that night or the cost of that animal will come off the remaining animals on thier list. If they have already finished this list and can't pay for the animal then the hunt is finished the meat, Cape and horns are to remain the property of the Outfitter to be sold, there are other hunters who need replacement capes for there trophies and the meat can be sold at market and the horns hung on the fence. If the hunt was paid for and a Taxidermist takes the trophies and mounts them with out a deposit to cover there cost well all I can say is not very smart, hold the trophies until deposit is made after a set time if the fee is not paid then the trophies are yours and again the cape can be used or sold for the storage fee.

That is perfect Bob, well thought out. There (in your words) is my point though. Clients, Outfitters, taxidermist, Etc.. have to think like this to cover their asses. Kwiktan did my taxidermy work, they required NO down payment (even though I offered to put money down), they emailed me when the work was done and I sent the payment to them. That's the way it should be. I feel that everyone on this forum could be trusted the same way I was, but, it are the knuckleheads that screw things up and make it more difficult/i.e.carrying more money with you to a foreign land, hence more hassle. SBI Logistics worked the same way, they didn't know me from Adam, yet required no payment until the paperwork and mounts were in their possesion and ready to ship. That's the way it should be. Again, that's the way it should be.