Custom form 4457

I declared the two rifles that I am taking to Africa at the customs office. Should I have declared the scopes on them? My travel agent said unless I had expensive camera equipment it was not neccessary to declare if it look used. I am planning on taking an old 35mm SLR and a cheap digital and some cheap binoculars that I may just leave there. Also I was at a Cabelas store looking at gun cases and they said I would need TSA locks but I am hearing now the TSA don't want them. What shoud I use for my case and ammo box and do I need a lock at each latch on the case? Lenny

It is not a requirement to have 4457's on your scopes and other equipment. I DO have 4457s on my scopes, binoculars, and camera to make certain there are no issues when returning to the US. After four trips the only 4457 that has been looked at are the ones for my firearms.

Real locks on your gun case. Make certain if it locks in two places you use two locks.

TSA locks on your ammo case is fine. I use regular locks with no problems.

I always bring a couple of extra TSA locks and non TSA locks because too many TSA agents do not understand the laws.

I looked on the tsa site and all they mentioned was a locked hard gun case and it stated ammo if in proper cases could be in gun case. That would be nice if a couple of boxes could be in there. They did not mention that the ammo had to be in a seperate locked box although I better have one. I may print that info off and take it to the airport when I go.

If you are flying in the US no problem with ammo in the gun case. Africa is different.

Lenny,
Mike has given you some excellent information here. Take his advise.

Best Regards
Marius Goosen

Bringing both kinds if locks to the airport sounds like a smart thing to do. I guess that's true whats goes here don't necessarly go in Africa. Could I split the ammo between me and my wifes luggage? Mike thanks for mentioning that.

Where are you flying lwaters?
That may change the issues at hand.

I am flying from Kansas City to Atlanta to Frankfurt Germany with Delta and from Frankfurt to Windhoek, Namibia. I do know the South Africian Airlines does want the ammo in a seperate locked case. Do not know about Namibia Airlines. Also my luggage and weapons will be check through to Windhoek. I do have pretty long lay overs at each stop so there should not be a problem with my luggage not making it on the next flight.

I would suggest that you pack the ammunition separately.
Go with the lowest common denominator.

Buddies trip this year ended in an 1.5 hour argument at the airport about the ammunition and how it was packed. (which they lost) They had to check ammunition as another item. On the way there, in the luggage was fine. On the way out mysteriously, not acceptable anymore. (this was SA though).
Same airline.

So how much fighting do you want to do on your holiday at 10PM at night???

Get your firearms transit permit for Germany, just in case no one told you.

Jerome should have a link on AH somewhere. Search it.

Again, good luck on your hunt.

lwaters ~ I agree with Mike on the 4457. We used to list "everything" but the only thing that US customs has ever been concerned with is the firearm information. Delta does codeshare with Air Namibia as far as baggage goes so everything should check through to Windhoek and you'll remain in-transit through Frankfurt in each direction of travel. Attached is some additional information on Air Namibia that might help you out as far as how to pack your ammo, etc.

Hope you have a great safari!

I've done 4457's for everything with serial number on all our trips out of the US. Never been looked at on our return though. The locks are another issue. I had TSA locks on both the gun and bow cases on our recent trip to British columbia. Both showed up without locks at all. Then put regular locks on the gun case and ammo. Got home and both locks were cut off and put back in the case. nothing was missing except the flashlights they stole out of my gate checked backpack. So if they will cut the regular locks off, or not put the TSA locks back on what are we to do?

Lenny,

A bit of advice would be to use a good travel agent the specializes in Africa safari instead of relying on internet experts such as myself. They will find the best deals, connections, help with the paperwork, insurance, solve problems should they arise, and generally put your mind at ease while traveling.

Lori Ginn has a fine reputation and of course is an AH regular. Another good choice is Gracy Travel.

Just kidding about the internet experts as the forums are a good place for information, but a good travel agent like Lori is indispensable.

Don't disagree, a rifle permit service like Henry's rifle service helps make it much easier upon arrival as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by safari gal

lwaters ~ I agree with Mike on the 4457. We used to list "everything" but the only thing that US customs has ever been concerned with is the firearm information. Delta does codeshare with Air Namibia as far as baggage goes so everything should check through to Windhoek and you'll remain in-transit through Frankfurt in each direction of travel. Attached is some additional information on Air Namibia that might help you out as far as how to pack your ammo, etc.

Hope you have a great safari!

---

Thanks for that info. One question. Does the air namibia regs. mean that I can only bring 80 rounds of ammo beings my wife will be an observor or can I bring 80 rounds for each weapon beings they are different calibers. Lenny

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BRICKBURN

Get your firearms transit permit for Germany, just in case no one told you.

Jerome should have a link on AH somewhere. Search it.

---

Here is the link: Germany Weapon / Ammunition Transiting Procedures

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lwaters

Thanks for that info. One question. Does the air namibia regs. mean that I can only bring 80 rounds of ammo beings my wife will be an observor or can I bring 80 rounds for each weapon beings they are different calibers. Lenny

---

It seems a little "grey" as to whether it's per weapon or license holder but remember that the total weight limit for ammo is 5kg or 11 lbs with TSA and also with Air Namibia.

Are 2 hunters allowed to share a gun case? What are the rules there. 2 guns/ 1 case/ 2 different gun owners (4457 forms)???? what are the issues

Thanks

You are allowed to put 2 guns in a case or more is you going with more people...it's just that you will pay extreme overweight charges after 50 lbs. limit. And you can put more than one gun on 4457 form. But I would fill out a form for every person in the party. Unless it's just you and your wife then I would claim the two guns as my own and have one 4457 form.

I have only been asked to produce the 4457 once, on my last trip to Zim. Never had to compare the serial number on a gun to the 4457 in the states but did in Zim this past June. The basic idea used to be to list everything with a serial number on the form, which I have done but again as others said here, the gun seems to be the only thing anyone cares about. TSA states clearly to not use TSA locks on the gun case. Once its locked and on the plane no one is supposed to have access to it except the owner upon arrival.

I'm sure you've already read this but this is from the TSA website:

Quote:

---

Following is a summary of key regulatory requirements to transport firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage:

All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process.

The firearm must be unloaded.

The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container.

The container must be locked.

The passenger must provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared.

Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).

The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it is properly packed as described above.

Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage.

---

It doesn't say you have to use TSA locks, it says the gun case has to be secured (locked) by key or combination. I used a Master padlock, the hard-sided case was opened and examined by ticket folks to insure the firearms were unloaded and no ammo was in the case and again by the TSA agent. Each time I gave them the key which was returned to me after they finished their inspection. At no time during this process was the case or firearms out of my vision.

Cabela's is a great company but their in-store folks aren't always the most knowledgable in certain areas. There is a travel agent on this forum who is a much better authority on international firearm transport. One thing I know, you do not want to attack attention from security by "cutting corners" or asking for special exceptions.

Keep your firearms and ammo separate from you companions', check with the airlines for their specific rules on firearms, print a copy of their rules and carry those with you. Most airlines require the ammo to be in a separate piece of checked baggage. I strongly urge you to follow the airline rules exactly.

If you follow the rules I doubt you will have any problems.

I did not list cameras, scopes, or laptop on my Custom's form but it probably isn't a bad idea just for insurance claims if they are lost or stolen.

I wish you good luck on your hunt and will look forward to seeing the report and photos. My experience in South was incredible and I hope your's is, too.